August 2024 PC Gaming General Discussion Thread

[Hveðrungr]

I can’t help but go full speed anytime there’s a car in a game

Likewise, but this caused problems in LA Noire let me tell you.

(with a little bit of save-scumming)

My unpopular opinion of the day is that reloading in tactics games isn't “save-scumming”, it's puzzle-solving. If you were doing a crossword and realised you'd put a word in wrong, you wouldn't decide you were scum for not sticking it out with the wrong word. You'd just rub it out, write in the right answer, and carry on. Tactics games are puzzles.

 

[Pifanjr]

My unpopular opinion of the day is that reloading in tactics games isn't “save-scumming”, it's puzzle-solving. If you were doing a crossword and realised you'd put a word in wrong, you wouldn't decide you were scum for not sticking it out with the wrong word. You'd just rub it out, write in the right answer, and carry on. Tactics games are puzzles.

In my case, I was specifically reloading to get the 25% to drop an enemy into a drop.

 

[Hveðrungr]

In my case, I was specifically reloading to get the 25% to drop an enemy into a drop.

Okay that one's kinda save-scumming hahaha

 

[Johnway]

Have you tried Lies of P at all? It's an excellent take on the genre (meaning Soulslike) and the summons in it are limited to essentially a single bot that you can mildly customize with a temporary buff during the fight. LoP feels like a game doing something newer and trying to find interesting mechanics, rather than being saddled with some of the baggage that the Dark Souls series has (keep in mind, I love Dark Souls).

Not yet, its on my to play list. Not in any rush to get it tbh, i still have sekiro and nioh 1 and 2 to finish first.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Just spotted The Tenants on sale for $8 over at GOG and picked it up. I've been wanting to try it for a while, but I'm still trying to explore Sun Haven so we'll see who wins the Attention Span Standoff.

 

[Brian Boru]

reloading in tactics games isn't “save-scumming”, it's puzzle-solving

Agreed. It can also be exploratory learning. One of the main reasons I don't bother with the weird 'fun' weapons in Far Cry is I can't plant myself at an enemy hotspot—say a crossroads near a base—and try them out on diff targets like infantry, heavies, tanks choppers etc. Reload, change weapon, repeat.

No, FC's awful save non-system means I have to reload last checkpoint and make my way to the checkpoint again—and do this for every weapon I want to test properly. With well over 100 weapons, it's a complete joke.

Can I jump off this height? Better not try, have to trek all the way back if I die.
Can I jump off this height with the less falling damage perk? Better not try, have to trek all the way back if I die.

Would it be better to approach this target from the East or West?
Does their sniper have LoS on this path?

Etc etc. QuickSave is a fundamental part of an interesting game for me.

 

[Zloth]

You'd just rub it out, write in the right answer, and carry on.

Unless you are an Ironman puzzle solver, in which case you would declare that you've lost, throw the puzzle away, and start a new one.

The last hero doesn't need friendship - there's simply no time for that before the end. You just do a few side missions, do some research, do the challenge, and it's time for the Big Boom!

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

My unpopular opinion of the day is that reloading in tactics games isn't “save-scumming”, it's puzzle-solving. If you were doing a crossword and realised you'd put a word in wrong, you wouldn't decide you were scum for not sticking it out with the wrong word. You'd just rub it out, write in the right answer, and carry on. Tactics games are puzzles.

Unless you are an Ironman puzzle solver, in which case you would declare that you've lost, throw the puzzle away, and start a new one.

The last hero doesn't need friendship - there's simply no time for that before the end. You just do a few side missions, do some research, do the challenge, and it's time for the Big Boom!

Iron man tactics guy for the most part reporting in.

I think if its a heavily story reliant game then I can see the point of reloading mistakes, if the missions play the same or very similarly every time and its boring to repeat them. Or if its a game youre learning that tends to blindside you and you havent played it before. Even then I like to try and adapt to losses and scrape through if possible.

I mostly played Battle Brothers on Iron man for example. Having to recover from the losses due to bad RNG makes things more interesting to me. Between you and me though, in BB when a party wipes out you can Alt F4 and reload from the start of any fight even in Ironman mode.

I also mostly prefer checkpoints as a design decision over having the option to quick save in action games though, as long as the checkpoints are fairly sensible. So maybe thats just something about me.

 

[ZedClampet]

OH MY GOD. I don't have anything to say. This is what's wrong with AAA gaming. Everyone should be ashamed of themselves. It will just launch broken and incomplete and be abandoned in a year. They basically copy/pasted from the last game. It's a reskin and a mile wide and 1.5 inches deep. Also, it costs too much. It's unoptimized. My 4090 can't run it. There are stutters and lag. I can't get a steady 300 FPS which makes me vomit uncontrollably. There are pay to win microtransactions. The battle pass costs $50 and isn't worth it. They lied to us. It isn't in the game and the trailers show better graphics. Why is the protagonist a black female trans when John Wayne played the part in the book? Woke garbage. Hackers are ruining the game. They should have given me the game for free since I had the original 1987 version.

 

[ZedClampet]

Supermarket Simulator
Factory Outlet Simulator
Clothing Store Simulator
Candy and Toy Store Simulator
Old Market Simulator
Retail Company Simulator
E-Tech (store) Simulator
Internet Cafe and Supermarket Simulator 24
Grocery Store Simulator
Record Shop Simulator
SuperSuperMarket!
SiSupermarket Simulator

Supermarket Simulator was first back in February. All the rest of these have come out since then and most of them copied Supermarket Simulator.

There are other store games coming soon. like TCG Card Shop Simulator, Tech Store Simulator and Bazaar Simulator. Rich Dad Simulator is also a retail game coming soon as is King of Retail 2. Both of these have been in the works for years.

I'm just pointing out what happens in the indie world when one game is phenomenally successful (Supermarket Simulator).

In related news. I'm no longer buying retail games that do 2 things:

1) Use Supermarket Simulator's ignorant method of store expansion. No one wants an odd shaped store. Just move the walls out a little with each upgrade.

2) Chase shoplifters with a bat. That's just moronic.

 

[Pifanjr]

Iron man tactics guy for the most part reporting in.

I think if its a heavily story reliant game then I can see the point of reloading mistakes, if the missions play the same or very similarly every time and its boring to repeat them. Or if its a game youre learning that tends to blindside you and you havent played it before. Even then I like to try and adapt to losses and scrape through if possible.

I mostly played Battle Brothers on Iron man for example. Having to recover from the losses due to bad RNG makes things more interesting to me. Between you and me though, in BB when a party wipes out you can Alt F4 and reload from the start of any fight even in Ironman mode.

I also prefer tactics games which support an ironman mode over redoing the same mission over and over until I win. Which is why I bounced off of XCOM: Chimera Squad.

In games where wins are mandatory, I prefer being able to save and reload whenever I want over having to start from the very start of the mission every time I lose.

I also mostly prefer checkpoints as a design decision over having the option to quick save in action games though, as long as the checkpoints are fairly sensible. So maybe thats just something about me.

I find checkpoints a lot more bearable in action games than in turn-based games. In action games the action is the fun part of the game, so having to redo a section isn't too bad. In turn-based games however the fun part of the game is coming up with a tactic/strategy. Losing because you used the wrong tactic/strategy isn't too bad, but losing because you made a single mistake in the execution of your tactic/strategy sucks. Redoing the entire mission exactly step by step until you get to the point where you made the mistake is painful.

 

[Hveðrungr]

Agreed. It can also be exploratory learning. Etc etc. QuickSave is a fundamental part of an interesting game for me.

This is all a big part of why Dishonored is my favourite modern game series in this genre. Quick-save and quick-load as many times as you like.

 

[Colif]

OH MY GOD. I don't have anything to say. This is what's wrong with AAA gaming. Everyone should be ashamed of themselves. It will just launch broken and incomplete and be abandoned in a year. They basically copy/pasted from the last game. It's a reskin and a mile wide and 1.5 inches deep. Also, it costs too much. It's unoptimized. My 4090 can't run it. There are stutters and lag. I can't get a steady 300 FPS which makes me vomit uncontrollably. There are pay to win microtransactions. The battle pass costs $50 and isn't worth it. They lied to us. It isn't in the game and the trailers show better graphics. Why is the protagonist a black female trans when John Wayne played the part in the book? Woke garbage. Hackers are ruining the game. They should have given me the game for free since I had the original 1987 version.

Which game is that? it describes too many this year/decade

Ubisoft's formula this year - release game with controversial main character to hide rest of game is crap. Get journalists to fight your wars for you. Abuse anyone who falls for the ploy and use all the free articles as free promotions. Its only after games come out that buyers find out characters weren't only things wrong in games.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I also prefer tactics games which support an ironman mode over redoing the same mission over and over until I win. Which is why I bounced off of XCOM: Chimera Squad.

In games where wins are mandatory, I prefer being able to save and reload whenever I want over having to start from the very start of the mission every time I lose.

Its been a few years since I played Chimera Squad, but I dont remember having to repeat many missions, or at least it didnt bother me. It was a kind of 7/10 game in my book. The characters and story weren't all that interesting, but I think they were all quite different and viable in different ways in the levels, from what I remember.

I find checkpoints a lot more bearable in action games than in turn-based games. In action games the action is the fun part of the game, so having to redo a section isn't too bad.

I usually dont notice when an action game doesnt have quick save anymore. I have memories of playing stuff as a kid where I would just quick save after taking every shot or movement to get through tough sections. For me doing that isnt much fun, I'd rather go back to a checkpoint and try a different route or strategy and feel like I genuinely improved, than fumble through because I quick saved after making a magic shot replaying the same 5 second part 20 times.

I play most games for the novelty of the experience in some way. So experimenting with different skills and routes through most games usually isnt all that appealing, I'm looking for something thats fun and works to beat the game. The fun is tied to the novelty for me.

In turn-based games however the fun part of the game is coming up with a tactic/strategy. Losing because you used the wrong tactic/strategy isn't too bad, but losing because you made a single mistake in the execution of your tactic/strategy sucks. Redoing the entire mission exactly step by step until you get to the point where you made the mistake is painful.

I'm not playing Iron man in Warhammer 3 currently and Ive reloaded saves a couple times. So I do agree its annoying when a single silly mistake or misclick means the end of a long campaign or puts you back and forces you to either retrace steps or spend a long time recovering which can be dull. Maybe thats partly the games fault for not making failure more interesting in some way? If a level works out the same way every time you try like a clockwork puzzle or the punishment for failure is just making you spend a lot of time getting back to the same point so you can continue with interesting stuff there might be better ways to do things.

At the end of the day not all games have to follow the same blueprint, and perhaps quick saves, check points, and Iron man modes just suit different games and people differently.

 

[Hveðrungr]

Its been a few years since I played Chimera Squad, but I dont remember having to repeat many missions, or at least it didnt bother me. It was a kind of 7/10 game in my book. The characters and story weren't all that interesting, but I think they were all quite different and viable in different ways in the levels, from what I remember.

XCOM: Chimera Squad was released for eight quid a few weeks into the first lockdown. You can't say fairer than that I reckon. Excellent value for money at exactly the right time.

There's a new XCOM spinoff coming next week

Humans, aliens, and hybrids join forces in XCOM: Chimera Squad.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Seems I said at the time in the last game completed thread that I preferred it to Xcom 2 because of its lack of Metagame. With a few years distance and I think another run through Xcom 2 in between that opinion doesnt stand. Still remember I liked it though.

 

[Johnway]

Ah, chimera squad. As some have mentioned, its Xcom 2 lite. Small room to room battles and fixed number of members in squad who had special abilities. As a police squad i found explosives damn useful one of my fav strategies was just using explosives to flush out enemies or make a new entrance to places. I did find it enjoyable but it was a bit light weight and the characters and features weren't as rich or exciting as i hoped. Won't say no to a sequel tbh.

Technically i've beaten the game, but i'm not calling it just yet, but Dark Souls 3 is finished. i beat the final boss and all i have to do is light the fire and roll credits. Except i haven't. i'm going to wander around a bit and sleep on it and decide whether DLC is worth playing or whether i'll just say screw it and play something else.

 

[Pifanjr]

Its been a few years since I played Chimera Squad, but I dont remember having to repeat many missions, or at least it didnt bother me. It was a kind of 7/10 game in my book. The characters and story weren't all that interesting, but I think they were all quite different and viable in different ways in the levels, from what I remember.

I got stuck on a level and had to replay it like 4 times, which really hurt my motivation to keep playing.

I usually dont notice when an action game doesnt have quick save anymore. I have memories of playing stuff as a kid where I would just quick save after taking every shot or movement to get through tough sections. For me doing that isnt much fun, I'd rather go back to a checkpoint and try a different route or strategy and feel like I genuinely improved, than fumble through because I quick saved after making a magic shot replaying the same 5 second part 20 times.

I feel like most games don't quickload fast enough to make it worth it to keep saving and loading over and over.

I play most games for the novelty of the experience in some way. So experimenting with different skills and routes through most games usually isnt all that appealing, I'm looking for something thats fun and works to beat the game. The fun is tied to the novelty for me.

Most games don't let you experiment much on the spot I think, nor do they expect you to. But most deck-building games for example are build around the idea of trying different approaches for each problem.

I'm not playing Iron man in Warhammer 3 currently and Ive reloaded saves a couple times. So I do agree its annoying when a single silly mistake or misclick means the end of a long campaign or puts you back and forces you to either retrace steps or spend a long time recovering which can be dull. Maybe thats partly the games fault for not making failure more interesting in some way? If a level works out the same way every time you try like a clockwork puzzle or the punishment for failure is just making you spend a lot of time getting back to the same point so you can continue with interesting stuff there might be better ways to do things.

I think a lot of turn-based games and especially puzzle games should have an (unlimited) undo button, that way you wouldn't have to redo the beginning if you make a mistake somewhere in the middle, nor do you have to remember to save frequently.

For action games, if it's dull to replay a section it probably means the gameplay isn't that good.

At the end of the day not all games have to follow the same blueprint, and perhaps quick saves, check points, and Iron man modes just suit different games and people differently.

Absolutely true. Plus I can't expect every developer to get everything perfectly right, but a game doesn't have to be perfect to be enjoyable.

 

[ZedClampet]

I only quicksave if there actually aren't checkpoint saves. as in Divinity Original Sin. You can play for an hour. die and have to go back to the beginning of the hour. which makes me want to quit and play something else.

*****

As far as Stardew-likes go. this one at least has better graphics

Mirthwood on Steam

Embark on an enchanting journey and brave ferocious creatures in an immersive medieval fantasy world. Will you settle a new homestead to live a life of farming and trade, or pick up the sword and take up the adventurers' path?

store.steampowered.com

 

[Pifanjr]

As far as Stardew-likes go. this one at least has better graphics

Mirthwood on Steam

Embark on an enchanting journey and brave ferocious creatures in an immersive medieval fantasy world. Will you settle a new homestead to live a life of farming and trade, or pick up the sword and take up the adventurers' path?

store.steampowered.com

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[ZedClampet]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

You prefer Easter Bunny vomit? Can we get some other opinions on this? I think this falls into the category of an opinion that is simply incorrect.

@Brian Boru make a decision here. Don't waffle.

 

[Zloth]

Better graphics meaning just two fingernails on the chalkboard instead of four?

 

[Brian Boru]

@Brian Boru make a decision here. Don't waffle

Done.

By the powers vested in me—where did stash those?—I hereby declare: no waffles for breakfast.

 

[ZedClampet]

Cowards. Tell it like it is. Smack @Pifanjr around and make him call you "Daddy".

(Is this what you meant by "agree to disagree?)

Do I have to remind you all that this is the man who prefers cold chocolate chip cookies?

 

[Hveðrungr]

As far as Stardew-likes go. this one at least has better graphics

Mirthwood on Steam

Embark on an enchanting journey and brave ferocious creatures in an immersive medieval fantasy world. Will you settle a new homestead to live a life of farming and trade, or pick up the sword and take up the adventurers' path?

store.steampowered.com

Stardew Valley has better graphics.

Are SV's graphics more “realistic”? No. But MW's graphics fall into an awkward uncanny valley. SV's graphics have more charm, and that's more important than realism.