June 2024 PC Gamer Article Discussion

[BeardyHat]

Xbox isn't a console anymore, it's a multiplatform game development giant

Microsoft 'won' the summer showcases, but what does that mean when Marcus Fenix and Kratos are both on Steam?

www.pcgamer.com

Xbox is still obviously wanting to make hardware, and I have some thoughts on that. Consoles are increasingly getting just as powerful as your average gaming PC. I just did a little bit of research, the Xbox Series X was released at $450 MSRP, and for an equivalent gaming PC in terms of hardware, it would cost you closer to $1000 to build one in 2020. A Ryzen 3600 and RTX 3060 is apparently pretty close to the same gaming performance as that Xbox. Microsoft sells their consoles at a loss, recouping profits via game sales on its platforms.

With that business approach, I think Microsoft could more aggressively price their new consoles while maintaining good performance. With the walls between console and PC gaming starting to disappear, I think consoles will be the entry level machines for budget conscious gamers. Of course this has always been the case for as long as PC gaming and console gaming have coexisted, but now is the time to really market it more specifically that way. Introduce more PC exclusives to consoles, sell consoles cheaper, and get more people playing more games. No longer are customers wanting the latest console to play the latest exclusive, but instead they see games that were once PC only but couldn’t afford to buy a gaming PC, now buying a console as a low cost entry point to play those same games. There’s lot of games on Steam and the PC platform as a whole that haven’t made it to consoles. If we are bringing console exclusives to PC, then PC games should move the other way as well. Every game on every platform, but now with consoles as the cheaper route and gaming PCs as the more high-end premium route.

Don’t know if this makes much sense to anyone but me, I may have just worded this weirdly, but I think I got my point across.

Forgive me if this doesn't make sense (I'm well into my cups), but I don't think most console gamers give much of a thought to PC gaming in any way.

Based on the modicum of console gamers I've spoken with recently, most do care about exclusives, as well as what they perceive as graphical fidelity, not giving a whole lot of thought to innovative gameplay in the slightest.

It seems to me that they don't really care about the latest Steam release, but instead how realistic the graphics are in Immortals of Aveium.

Also sorry if this doesn't make a ton of sense. I'm probably more drunk than I ought to be, but vacation and no responsibility, woo.

 

[Colif]

It's just not a thing. There are no PC exclusives

there are still games that are better on PC than console based purely on control schemes and number of buttons you can actually use. Do they have 19 button controllers yet? mmo mice?

they are a niche for sure but they exist. Only as devs weren't stupid enough to cram it all onto a control system that works on console. ARPG that aren't dumbed down (anything other than Diablo 4) work better on PC. I see POE 2 dumbed self down for a wider audience.

Cities skylines still not on console. Though that is the fault of the developer.

 

[ZedClampet]

there are still games that are better on PC than console based purely on control schemes and number of buttons you can actually use. Do they have 19 button controllers yet? mmo mice?

they are a niche for sure but they exist. Only as devs weren't stupid enough to cram it all onto a control system that works on console. ARPG that aren't dumbed down (anything other than Diablo 4) work better on PC. I see POE 2 dumbed self down for a wider audience.

Cities skylines still not on console. Though that is the fault of the developer.

They aren't exclusives by the usual meaning of the word. They aren't on console, but they could be if they wanted to. Valve isn't signing anyone to exclusive deals.

 

[Colif]

I wish people realised that paying extra to play a game early is a trap**. I mean, if it becomes "normal" who is to say they don't have it as standard, and every game has staggered release dates depending how much you pay.
Already 3 different versions of some games, now they could add it to every tier.
Normal versions of games would release a month after people who paid for the more expensive version.
Middle version 2 weeks before.

They will do it if you let them. Pay to play... exists, this is just another way to extract money based on the hype for your game.

**by this I mean the 2 week "previews" on AAA games, not the actual early access that starts long before release. Or the few days before offered by some games.

They aren't exclusives by the usual meaning of the word. They aren't on console, but they could be if they wanted to. Valve isn't signing anyone to exclusive deals.

True, because apart from the Steam deck, they have no reason to want to tie people on their platform onto their hardware. Its the console makers who want to make you buy their hardware to play their games. These exclusives are the incentive. If you patient and game fails, most exclusives become less exclusive as devs need to release them elsewhere to make money back... refer starfailed.

Nintendo understood years ago its games that make you buy hardware. Sony & Microsoft played the hardware route until they now up to date with PC and can't do it much more. So they playing catchup and making it hard to play any game unless you buy all the hardware.

 

[BeardyHat]

Nintendo understood years ago its games that make you buy hardware. Sony & Microsoft played the hardware route until they now up to date with PC and can't do it much more. So they playing catchup and making it hard to play any game unless you buy all the hardware.

Microsoft also doesn't actually invest in having games people actually want on their systems and hasn't in...ever? Halo, maybe.

I couldn't tell you the last time I heard someone talking about Xbox or 360 emulation seriously. It's mentioned here and there in the retro emulation space, but by and large, people want to emulate Gamecube and PS2, because they had unique and interesting games. Has Microsoft ever had something that might be considered a "killer app" that people would want to buy a console for? Even back when Xbox and the 360 were at their peak, people wanted them because it was one of the earliest experiences of multiplayer on a console, not because there were some special games on them.

I'm not personally much of fan of Nintendo games, but no one wants to make games like Nintendo does. It costs a lot of money, as well as time and when the C-Suite is only concerned about the next quarter, they don't want to invest all that. Look at the failure of Redfall; it didn't look like anything special anyway, but they shoved it out the door early to meet a quota of some sort. No C-Suite looked at that Miyamoto style and said, "Is this actually fun to play? Will people want to?"

Also: I forgot to close my tab and (more importantly) tip, last night when I left the brewery. ****. I'm going to need to rectify that today, somehow.

 

[Colif]

Microsoft also doesn't actually invest in having games people actually want on their systems and hasn't in...ever? Halo, maybe.

hmm, some people wanted Starfield last year, If Bethesda and Blizzard didn't mess their games up, MS would have something worth selling.

 

[BeardyHat]

hmm, some people wanted Starfield last year, If Bethesda and Blizzard didn't mess their games up, MS would have something worth selling.

You have a point there. Though I didn't have any troubles with Starfield on launch and I played it 90 hours.

So perhaps then it's also worth noting the speed of gaming these days and how the zeitgeist rarely settles on a thing for longer than a month or two. I feel like Nintendo games generally have staying power in the public consciousness, because they're exclusive to a console, as well as being on a very slow release schedule. How long was it between BotW and ToTK?

Baldurs Gate 3 was big for awhile, but it's still rarely talked about now. We're back on the Elden Ring train because of DLC, but will anyone be talking about it by the end of July? By the end of August? Or will there be some new hotness that everyone is hyped about.

Stuff doesn't have time to linger anymore and I feel like the FOMO that is inspired by exclusives is mitigated by the general pace of the world and gaming today. Almost everything is a flash in the pan; I feel like a weirdo when I'm still playing one of these games weeks after initial release.

 

[Colif]

Guess it depends on the type of game you play. The ones I play allow replayability to point I only stop playing if I get bored or if steam won't let me create any more saves. I generally take a few months to do either - only hit save limit once... I didn't know there was one until I hit it.

I guess lots of games now made to be played once with no real point playing again. They made to be consumed. I never played that game of buying a new game, and try to finish it before next one is released. I used to mod a Playstation forum and we had people who would beat a game each week. Meanwhile I played same game for a year. I see that as value for money.

I don't play the popular games so a new game I might want to buy is a rare thing for me. Some here think its a rut if they can't think of a game to play, that is just normal for me. When a game comes out I do want to play, you only know I exist by the posts on the forum thread about whatever game it is. Everyone else likes the break

 

[Hveðrungr]

I played Starfield for 180 hours at launch. It's the first Bethesda game I've ever been able to play at launch without it being bugged to hell and back.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Baldurs Gate 3 was big for awhile, but it's still rarely talked about now. We're back on the Elden Ring train because of DLC, but will anyone be talking about it by the end of July? By the end of August? Or will there be some new hotness that everyone is hyped about.

Stuff doesn't have time to linger anymore and I feel like the FOMO that is inspired by exclusives is mitigated by the general pace of the world and gaming today. Almost everything is a flash in the pan; I feel like a weirdo when I'm still playing one of these games weeks after initial release

Media follows games when theyre hot for obvious reasons, but because there arent news articles every day doesnt mean everything is a flash in the pan. BG3 is no 20 today in Steam with 77000, Elden Ring is at 160000 because the DLC is incoming, but it hasnt been under 50k peak basically since release 2 years ago according to Steam charts. Monster Hunter World is at 12, Helldivers 2 is still up there, Total War Warhammer 3 is still strong, Cyberpunk still in top 100, Valheim and more. I think if a game really is worth the hype then it has the long tail, maybe if its not quite up to snuff it Homer Simpsons back into the bushes after a while.

No sign of Dragon Dogma though for example, so some stuff comes and goes its true. I dont think its much different than ever though tbh, but I'm not going to spend the hours digging into numbers to find out.

I guess theres also just a ton more games than ever before, so people might be moving on faster, especially if theyre mostly playing smaller scale games. I think quality still has a decent tail though, though it probably helps if that quality is matched by hype aroudn release as well.

Guess it depends on the type of game you play. The ones I play allow replayability to point I only stop playing if I get bored or if steam won't let me create any more saves. I generally take a few months to do either - only hit save limit once... I didn't know there was one until I hit it.

I guess lots of games now made to be played once with no real point playing again. They made to be consumed. I never played that game of buying a new game, and try to finish it before next one is released. I used to mod a Playstation forum and we had people who would beat a game each week. Meanwhile I played same game for a year. I see that as value for money.

I dont see the point that a game that is endlessly replayable is better or worse than a game thats more limited. Ive got 250 odd hours in Slay the Spire, but is it a better game than Doom 2016 or Citizen Sleeper? I dont think so, its just a different type of game and not really directly comparable.

I also dont think indie devs are cynically making smaller scope games for people to play and throw away, and some bigger publishers are actively trying to do the exact opposite of that over the last few years with attempts to hook people into live services forever rather than making quality single player campaigns.

 

[Colif]

I wasn't judging, I was just saying different types of games.

I also dont think indie devs are cynically making smaller scope games for people to play and throw away,

if anything some indie are making massive sprawling games.

and some bigger publishers are actively trying to do the exact opposite of that over the last few years with attempts to hook people into live services forever rather than making quality single player campaigns.

yep. Forknife comes to mind... still can't call it by right name. Guess its the success story all the others are trying to copy.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I wasn't judging, I was just saying different types of games.


if anything some indie are making massive sprawling games.


yep. Forknife comes to mind... still can't call it by right name. Guess its the success story all the others are trying to copy.

Fair enough, it was cynical of me to assume your cynicism.

Indie games run a huge spectrum from text adventures to near AAA scope and fidelity its true. I feel like the ones that I register a thought about are more often smaller scale and closer to one and done, but thats mostly down to my own tastes.

 

[Colif]

some indie games take years to make

Last Epoch on Steam

Uncover the Past, Reforge the Future. Ascend into one of 15 mastery classes and explore dangerous dungeons, hunt epic loot, craft legendary weapons, and wield the power of over a hundred transformative skill trees. Last Epoch is being developed by a team of passionate Action RPG enthusiasts.

store.steampowered.com

whereas others made in an afternoon
I don't have an example of one of those as I don't look.

I seem to be having a week where everyone thinks I am arguing with them

 

[Hveðrungr]

I seem to be having a week where everyone thinks I am arguing with them

How DARE you say that!

 

[Colif]

I had someone post an entire line of the red emoji earlier.

 

[Pifanjr]

You have a point there. Though I didn't have any troubles with Starfield on launch and I played it 90 hours.

So perhaps then it's also worth noting the speed of gaming these days and how the zeitgeist rarely settles on a thing for longer than a month or two. I feel like Nintendo games generally have staying power in the public consciousness, because they're exclusive to a console, as well as being on a very slow release schedule. How long was it between BotW and ToTK?

Baldurs Gate 3 was big for awhile, but it's still rarely talked about now. We're back on the Elden Ring train because of DLC, but will anyone be talking about it by the end of July? By the end of August? Or will there be some new hotness that everyone is hyped about.

Stuff doesn't have time to linger anymore and I feel like the FOMO that is inspired by exclusives is mitigated by the general pace of the world and gaming today. Almost everything is a flash in the pan; I feel like a weirdo when I'm still playing one of these games weeks after initial release.

I think this is mostly because the zeitgeist/public consciousness is so much broader than in the past. There are a lot of games that don't get talked about any more in the general gaming spaces, but which still have large communities. I think that within the more specialised communities the speed of gaming is a lot slower.

 

[Brian Boru]

Microsoft also doesn't actually invest in having games people actually want on their systems and hasn't in...ever?

Halo and Starfield mentioned above. AoE regarded by many as best RTS ever.
Forza, Deathloop, Pentiment, Minecraft, Quake 2 Remaster.
Minesweeper!

I feel like a weirdo when I'm still playing one of these games weeks after initial release.

Well yeah, that's just… well, odd. Get help.

I guess lots of games now made to be played once with no real point playing again. They made to be consumed

…

Stuff doesn't have time to linger anymore

Gaming is no longer a niche pastime. With big demand comes big supply, with all the capitalist commercial mess that implies.

It seems to me that the industry is being 'developed' by Hollywood types these days, with that whole one-month-wonder summer blockbuster focus.

The main problem is the horrendous dev times involved in modern games—years in the making by hundreds of expensive people. That's a real high cliff for an investor to be standing on, and people wonder why so many such ventures go under

But AI will hopefully streamline a lot of that time and money sink within a decade or two, so that AAA gaming can move on from being like a super-expensive artisan pursuit previously funded by the aristocracy in Feudal times

everyone thinks I am arguing with them

No we don't. What makes you assume that???

 

[Colif]

I get your point about consumed, I meant quickly and discarded to move onto next.

 

[Colif]

reality is still stranger than fiction

An award-winning photo was disqualified from the AI category of a competition because it turned out to be real

Doesn't this usually happen the other way round?

www.pcgamer.com

Wonders what difference between not saying one thing in one place, and instead telling other people what you were going to do and they report it, is. Seems you achieve same result.

Assassin's Creed Shadows executive producer says Elon Musk is just 'feeding hatred' with his reaction to the game's Black protagonist

Musk claimed that the use of the historical figure was part of an initiative that "kills art".

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Hveðrungr]

Wonders what difference between not saying one thing in one place, and instead telling other people what you were going to do and they report it, is. Seems you achieve same result.

“If I were going to respond to your ignorant and hurtful remarks then I would have said <long screed> but I'm not going to bother responding at all because there's no point, I prefer a dignified silence to saying <long screed>”.

It's a tale as old as time.

 

[Brian Boru]

It's a tale as old as time

I'm glad I didn't waste time reading your post.

 

[Hveðrungr]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/great-moments-in-pc-gaming-choosing-your-origin-in-dragon-age-origins/

Each [origin] was unique enough that most of us couldn't help but make several characters to try out a whole selection of them, like playing a series of RPG vignettes.

I loved DAO and I liked this nostalgic article, but I want to disagree on this.

Telemetry seems consistent that most players of mass market games don't engage with all the optional systems. For example, most Bethesda RPG players never touch a mod. Most RPG players play as a default human (and usually a white male with brown hair). And most RPG players play the game once, enjoy it, and then never play it again. It's just not going to be true that “most of us” made several characters to try out a whole selection of alternate origins in DAO. And Bioware's telemetry will have shown them that.

I think this is important not just to be grumpily pedantic but because without understanding it we can't understand why Bioware dropped the system. It was a nice thing to have, especially for the most dedicated players, but it didn't help them move the needle on becoming a mass-market franchise. If we fall into the trap of thinking that “most of us” did this, we'll think that they were just making stupid decisions for no reason other than to cut costs, which is to misunderstand their motives.

 

[DXCHASE]

Destiny 2: The Final Shape review

Destiny's first saga ends with one of the best expansions in the series' history.

www.pcgamer.com

So some of you will know i play Destiny 2 a lot (5600hrs), as much as its been crap for the last year, i still had some type of connection with the game whether through discord chats, doing clan leader stuff for the game or just logging in to claim free stuff, i still played.

Between the content that was dropped a month before The Final Shape and the stuff after The Final Shapes release has been rejuvenating and Its been peak Destiny 2 despite having its many flaws. They brought back a beloved character, the villain was good but the new loot and weapons are some of the best imo. Rocket pistols and swords that shoot rockets

They added a new class that blends different class abilities together too and they have been insanely fun to use to the point where i can clean out rooms just with grenades, melees and supers alone so much easier than before.

Honestly havent had fun like this in a while because im also playing with old clanmates and family, which is always the best bonus.

 

[ZedClampet]

Tough day at the office? How about a mandatory photo montage to calm you down, ordered by an AI that's monitoring how close you get to breaking point

A bank is using AI to monitor call center workers' stress levels and automatically play photo montages when it all gets too much.

www.pcgamer.com

Couldn't find the AI thread I made a long time ago and forgot...

So a company I used to work in management for, First Horizon, is using AI to be able to tell when their call center employees are at the breaking point. Then they show them a selection of the employees photos along with a song the employee picked. Apparently it's working. Both employees and customers are happier.

 

[Pifanjr]

Tough day at the office? How about a mandatory photo montage to calm you down, ordered by an AI that's monitoring how close you get to breaking point

A bank is using AI to monitor call center workers' stress levels and automatically play photo montages when it all gets too much.

www.pcgamer.com

Couldn't find the AI thread I made a long time ago and forgot...

So a company I used to work in management for, First Horizon, is using AI to be able to tell when their call center employees are at the breaking point. Then they show them a selection of the employees photos along with a song the employee picked. Apparently it's working. Both employees and customers are happier.

Somehow that sounds terribly depressing.