What's the definition of retro gaming?

[Colif]

Quake was 1st to not be sprites.

A slightly deeper dive into everything but not really 3d related

 

[Pifanjr]

Problem then is it just refers to hardware as most of the software makers remake older games again.

Good point.

I don't think retro should be defined as a specific subset of games. I would say it's more like nostalgia, something that reminds you of "the past", where the cut-off for what is considered "the past" and "current" is different for different people.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Quake was 1st to not be sprites.

The first Quake, or the second? My memory of the original Quake was that the enemies were pretty similar looking to Doom or Duke 3D.

Actually, I just looked at a video, and it does look like very low resolution 3D models. That's wild. I never knew that. I do remember being amazed by how much better Quake looked than the earlier games. Especially the skybox and clouds. The first game that truly wowed me, though, was the original Unreal. It made good use of 3D accelerators.

 

[redmark_]

Doom was a dos game, it was released in 1993 and was on a lot of computers that aren't PC. It came before 3d GPU existed on PC.

Its retro. It just showed the way of future. It didn't need 3d cards to run but it ran much better with one. Software that ran 3d came before hardware that supported it... sort of makes sense as no one make hardware without some expectation of demand.

3d cards were more likely when there are games like Doom and Descent using 3d.

When Retro started doesn't have a set date... its more a period of years.

ah I see, thanks for the explanation, as I'm not a true internet/game historian. 😅
that's actually cool to know, so doom was just using "cpu" power that time, as opposed to games nowadays that have programming for CPU and GPU. 😁

But a lot [?] was fixed again in Windows 10—eg I was able to play 1995's Command and Conquer on Win10, but not on Win7.


And a bit earlier too
Generally acknowledged first 3D game is Atari's Battlezone from 1980. There were others in 80s, altho first I played was Id's Wolfenstein 3D from '92.

I still maintain however that 3D didn't become truly essential until Tomb Raider.


Yeah, I wouldn't stress about definition or inclusion—just enjoy discussing 'old stuff'

yeah, I remember command and conquer not playing nice at all with windows 7.
and really? it runs on windows 10? I must check that out.

also, which tombreaider was that? the one with a boxy pointy chest? 🤣

 

[WoodenSaucer]

also, which tombreaider was that? the one with a boxy pointy chest? 🤣

I believe the first 3 Tomb Raider games were like that. I bought the original Tomb Raider for PC back before 3D acceleration was mainstream. It was still very pixelated, more than the picture you posted. But I bought my first S3 ViRGE addon 3D accelerator card at that time. You still had to have a separate card for 2D graphics. I was able to download a patch for Tomb Raider that made use of the 3D Accelerator. It basically smoothed everything out with a little higher resolution and anti-aliasing. Before those 3D accelerators, there pretty much was no such thing as anti-aliasing. So that smoothed the graphics out a lot. I think it might have added mipmapping, too.

Here's what the original looked like without 3D acceleration.

 

[Krud]

I think part of the problem some of us run into, is that -- and obviously I'm speaking for a minority here -- some of us remember the birth of video and computer games in their entirety, and so "retro" for us has a very definite starting point, that being the literal beginning of video games (or thereabouts). But as more and more generations are born INTO a pre-existing electronic game culture, the definition of "retro" shifts and becomes harder to quantify. Which is why for an old fart like me, "What's the first video game you ever played" is not a good security question, because for me (and probably others older than me) there are only a handful of possible answers. It'd be like asking someone from 1910 "What was your first car?" Probably gonna be a Model T.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I think part of the problem some of us run into, is that -- and obviously I'm speaking for a minority here -- some of us remember the birth of video and computer games in their entirety, and so "retro" for us has a very definite starting point, that being the literal beginning of video games (or thereabouts). But as more and more generations are born INTO a pre-existing electronic game culture, the definition of "retro" shifts and becomes harder to quantify. Which is why for an old fart like me, "What's the first video game you ever played" is not a good security question, because for me (and probably others older than me) there are only a handful of possible answers. It'd be like asking someone from 1910 "What was your first car?" Probably gonna be a Model T.

Yeah, definitely. And I believe on this forum, you're probably not in the minority. There are a bunch of old farts on this forum. Haha. I know my first home video gaming experience was the Magnavox Odyssey, which is the first home console ever made. Before that, I played the first arcade games, like Space Invader or Pac-Man. Before that, we played pinball machines and pool tables. Probably several of us go pretty far back with gaming.

 

[Colif]

"What's the first video game you ever played" is not a good security question, because for me (and probably others older than me) there are only a handful of possible answers. It'd be like asking someone from 1910 "What was your first car?" Probably gonna be a Model T.

Judging by average in our version of that thread, its mostly Super Mario Bros is the most common starting point of users who post once and never return, but for those who actually post more than 15 posts before exploding, the age is older. Some of us can remember a time before video games... it was terrible
I don't know who I would be without computers.

 

[Brian Boru]

command and conquer … runs on windows 10? I must check that out.

I assume you know about the excellent remaster?

the one with a boxy pointy chest?

That would be it, where DD and 3D 'supported' each other.

I think it might have added mipmapping

Why I singled out Tomb Raider as the first 'essential' 3D game was the revolutionary use of the experimental nipmapping technology.

I don't know who I would be without computers

From a gaming perspective, I'm sure I'd have continued with all the physical games I used to play before electronic became a thing—cards, board, word, dice, darts, pool, snooker, quizzes, …

 

[Colif]

I discovered computers the first year of college. I spent more time in computer room than anywhere else for 2 years.

My maths is terrible and yet with computers I could work in finance jobs for 20 years.

I really don't know who I would be without computers.

 

[Zloth]

Yeah @Krud - it's the "classic rock" radio station issue.

So how should we do "retro"? Everything more than X years old? Everything from year Y and earlier?

Want to do it based on release day or when the game was first available via early access, open beta, or whatever? (That's going to be a big deal for Star Citizen. Eventually.)

 

[Brian Boru]

how should we do "retro"?

We shouldn't get tied up in defining it, and avoid "That's not retro" "It is too!" wars

If you think it's retro, post about it.

 

[Zloth]

If you think it's retro, post about it.

OK, relativist retro it is!

 

[WoodenSaucer]

My problem is the opposite. My problem is that people say games like Breath of the Wild or Horizon: Zero Dawn are old games, and I'm over here still thinking Skyrim is a new game. Lol

 

[Colif]

No new game released in the last 20 years is retro.
All games over 25 years old are retro
there is a 5 year grey period where it could be maybe retro

anything prior to PS1/N64/1998 can be seen as retro

I don't know but anything made in last 15 years can't be defined as retro. New games, not remakes of old games.

Monkey Island is everything

My problem is that people say games like Breath of the Wild or Horizon: Zero Dawn are old games, and I'm over here still thinking Skyrim is a new game. Lol

some people think games that came out last year are old games... We pat them on the head and nod. Its all perspective, its not their fault they are wrong.

 

[Zloth]

some people think games that came out last year are old games... We pat them on the head and nod. Its all perspective, its not their fault they are wrong.

Oh yes it is!!

 

[Brian Boru]

people say games like … Horizon: Zero Dawn are old games

Don't mind 'em, I've got your back—unless @McStabStab is around, in which case he can have it.
I'm looking forward to playing HZD next year or after, at which time it'll be a glorious shiny NEW game for me!

Hmm, maybe I'm retro… that could be it.

Monkey Island is everything

That may be something on which all can agree.
But no, not placing any bets.

 

[McStabStab]

Don't mind 'em, I've got your back—unless @McStabStab is around, in which case he can have it.

 

[Frindis]

What about games that are still updated through decades, could they be called retro when they still use retro-ish graphics from the 90s, but have implemented more functional UI as you have with the game Unreal World? [40% off on Steam until the eighth of August]

@Colif I remember fondly playing Quake on my overclocked Compaq Presario with Intel Pentium. I used something called GLQuake which was a source port from Id Software for testing out the Open GL system before the release of Quake 2. I had the Voodoo 2 that "I made to work" with Quake through the DLL wrapper that 3Dfx released back then since the card was not Open GL compatible straight out of the box. That game ran pretty smooth with it and I'd like to think it gave me a little advantage when fragging people.

 

[redmark_]

I assume you know about the excellent remaster?


That would be it, where DD and 3D 'supported' each other.


Why I singled out Tomb Raider as the first 'essential' 3D game was the revolutionary use of the experimental nipmapping technology.


From a gaming perspective, I'm sure I'd have continued with all the physical games I used to play before electronic became a thing—cards, board, word, dice, darts, pool, snooker, quizzes, …

uhhh, no... wait what? how did I not know this at all? I must've been sleeping under a rock around that time. 😐

also DD, and 3D, and nipmapping.... 🤨

hmmm something is a bit off here, and I don't know what it is.... 🤔🙈

 

[Brian Boru]

no... wait what? how did I not know this at all?

Get it, play it—it truly is an excellent job, had a bunch of the original Westwood guys involved, incl Frank Klepacki.

 

[redmark_]

Get it, play it—it truly is an excellent job, had a bunch of the original Westwood guys involved, incl Frank Klepacki.

thanks, I'll hafta take a look at this and might take it for a spin too. 😉

 

[Krud]

Want to do it based on release day or when the game was first available via early access, open beta, or whatever? (That's going to be a big deal for Star Citizen. Eventually.)

Ten years from now...

Star Citizen Curmudgeon: "You whipper-snappers with your 'Final Beta' Star Citizen... I remember when all this was Alpha! Hmph."

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Ten years from now...

Star Citizen Curmudgeon: "You whipper-snappers with your 'Final Beta' Star Citizen... I remember when all this was Alpha! Hmph."

Kind of like how my great-grandpa remembers back when TES VI was first announced.

 

[JarlBSoD]

I sort of have a flexible personal limit on what is retro and that is, if it is old enough to drink, it is retro, ie 18 (here in swe). But i can stretch that a year back and forth depending on the game.