Warcraft 3 - probably the best RTS in history

[Sarafan]

So I decided to revisit Warcraft 3 after 10 (?) years and give the Reforged version a try. Maybe it's my hunger for a good AAA class RTS, but I'm absolutely charmed by the game. The gameplay is just astoundingly good and it didn't age a bit. I've spent probably around 25 hours in the last 4 days in the game and I still don't have enough.

The fun that this game gives me is a lot bigger than the one provided by Starcraft 2 which I revisited last year. I'm mostly playing official campaigns right now and it's nice to experience the story that preceded World of Warcraft once again. There's almost no timed missions as opposed to Starcraft 2 which relied on them heavily. Of course we can argue that timed missions prepare better for online play, but what the hell? I'm playing single player campaigns to have single player fun!

As for the Reforged version, as we all know time heals the wounds. I'll probably be the first person that you've met which says a lot of good things about this version, but from the perspective of two and half year that have past since its release date, I can say that the game received a lot of undeserved bashing. Yes, Blizzard didn't deliver everything that they've promised, but the core of Reforged is in place. All assets were redone from scratch and they look absolutely gorgeous even by today standards. The new models are so good that Warcraft 3 Reforged could have been released as a new RTS and no one would notice that the engine is from 2002.

The game still lacks ranked mode. The appropriate patch is on the PTS for a few weeks, so we should see it being implemented in the near future. Broken promises don't affect the gameplay though. It's probably the best RTS in history (sorry Starcraft lovers ) and with the new assets it just rocks!

 

[Brian Boru]

It's probably the best RTS in history

Always fascinating to meet one of the deluded, welcome brave afflicted soul

I never bothered with the Xcraft games in the 90s, not much into fantasy or syfy. Good to see some of the genre's stalwarts getting modern attention tho, even if at times not well received.

I'm absolutely charmed by the game

Great to hear you're enjoying it, may it bring you much more fun

 

[Pifanjr]

I tried Warcraft 3 in some co-op skirmishes, but my main experience with RTS games was with Age of Empires, which is much slower, especially on lower difficulties. So by the time I built a few units I would get swarmed by a massive army from the AI. I just stuck to mods after that, I don't think I ever tried the campaign.

I had a similar problem with Starcraft, but as a teenager I attended a video game camp where one of the camp counsellors taught us how to play well enough to defeat the AI. I even ended up 2nd in a free for all 8-player game. Could've probably been first if I had spotted and killed the research vessel before all of my cloaked wraiths were killed.

I did play the campaigns of Starcraft 1 and 2, except Legacy of the Void, which I hope to get around to sometime in the future.

 

[Sarafan]

Always fascinating to meet one of the deluded, welcome brave afflicted soul

Why deluded? I understand that my statement can be controversial, especially when I praise the Reforged version, but this is how I perceive this game.

Great to hear you're enjoying it, may it bring you much more fun

I'm even considering to tackle a little with the editor. I already have some ideas for new maps. In the past I created a lot of maps and campaigns for the first Starcraft, so I shouldn't have too much trouble learning the Warcraft 3 Editor.

I tried Warcraft 3 in some co-op skirmishes, but my main experience with RTS games was with Age of Empires, which is much slower, especially on lower difficulties.

Skirmishes are generally harder than the campaign. You shouldn't have problems with it on easy difficulty. For the purpose of my revisit, I picked normal difficulty and I regret not going with hard. Oh well, at least there will be occasion to return to the campaign in the near future.

I did play the campaigns of Starcraft 1 and 2, except Legacy of the Void, which I hope to get around to sometime in the future.

Starcraft is generally harder than Warcraft 3, so there's not reason not to go through the campaigns. The story is decent in both games.

 

[Pifanjr]

Skirmishes are generally harder than the campaign. You shouldn't have problems with it on easy difficulty. For the purpose of my revisit, I picked normal difficulty and I regret not going with hard. Oh well, at least there will be occasion to return to the campaign in the near future.

Starcraft is generally harder than Warcraft 3, so there's not reason not to go through the campaigns. The story is decent in both games.

I'll add it to the backlog behind Legacy of the Void. I'll get back to you in 10-25 years.

 

[Sarafan]

I'll add it to the backlog behind Legacy of the Void. I'll get back to you in 10-25 years.

Let's hope the servers will still be active by then.

 

[Pifanjr]

Let's hope the servers will still be active by then.

Do you need to be online to play the campaign? Or do you mean the servers where you can download the game?

 

[Brian Boru]

Why deluded?

Cos I'm a smartass And of course, cos you're apparently unaware:

Best RTS in history for PC

That's not one person's or website's or publication's opinion—that's the meta score which "distills the opinions of the most respected critics writing online and in print".

 

[Sarafan]

Do you need to be online to play the campaign? Or do you mean the servers where you can download the game?

Actually both. I'm not sure whether you need online connection to play the campaigns. The game appears to be integrated with Battle.net, so it's possible.

That's not one person's or website's or publication's opinion—that's the meta score which "distills the opinions of the most respected critics writing online and in print".

Warcraft 3 is only two points behind the leader, so it's really a matter of personal preference. I, for example, would never think that Plants vs Zombies will have a higher score than any Blizzard's RTS starting from Starcraft 1. But as I said, the differences in the score are so minimal that every game from the top 15 can become the best for individual gamer. I pick Warcraft 3!

 

[Pifanjr]

Actually both. I'm not sure whether you need online connection to play the campaigns. The game appears to be integrated with Battle.net, so it's possible.

I'm pretty sure you could play the campaign offline in the original Warcraft 3, so I might just have to do without the updated graphics in the worst case.

Warcraft 3 is only two points behind the leader, so it's really a matter of personal preference. I, for example, would never think that Plants vs Zombies will have a higher score than any Blizzard's RTS starting from Starcraft 1. But as I said, the differences in the score are so minimal that every game from the top 15 can become the best for individual gamer. I pick Warcraft 3!

I would also like to point out that Warcraft 3 does have a Must Play token but C&C does not.

 

[Brian Boru]

Warcraft 3 does have a Must Play token but C&C does not

Yeah, shame they didn't implement that token until ~1999—I agree with you, it devalues the token immensely to be missing from the #1 sooper-dooperest RTS of all time ever in the known universe. In this dimension…

Plants vs Zombies will have a higher score than any Blizzard's RTS

Oops, I edited that link to show only PC titles—those PvZs were for a handheld version.

only two points behind the leader

I sense your desperation—no worries, it's understandable… and we have a support program for the delusional, just contact @Frindis for the European clinic.

It's probably the best RTS in history

I'd be delighted to help your rehab, I can edit that for you when you're ready—something like:
"In my deluded opinion, It's probably the best RTS in history—but I'm in a clinic to fix that".
That work for you?

 

[Pifanjr]

I was very surprised to see Black & White at #11. Happy to see it has the Must Play token though.

 

[Sarafan]

I sense your desperation—no worries, it's understandable… and we have a support program for the delusional, just contact @Frindis for the European clinic.

The clinic is unfortunately currently busy due to the fact that they're helping C&C FTW patients.

And as I was expecting, the ranked play patch has been released today. That's one more thing removed out of the W3 Reforged broken promises list.

 

[Johnway]

i played Warcraft 3 + frozen throne back in the day and got to say i enjoyed the Sp campaign very much with its strong narrative and gameplay was good. It tried to mix up a few of the mission variety and also different factions played kinda differently helped. it makes the reforge debacle all the more painful and makes me sneer with contempt for blizzard\activision. Just one of many things that avaricious, morally bankrupt, husk of a POS company has done to turn a quick buck and piss on the community and its consumers.

 

[Sarafan]

it makes the reforge debacle all the more painful and makes me sneer with contempt for blizzard\activision. Just one of many things that avaricious, morally bankrupt, husk of a POS company has done to turn a quick buck and piss on the community and its consumers.

Reforged version isn't bad. It received the most important upgrade we expect from a remaster - overhauled graphics. There's plenty of remasters which don't offer assets rebuilt from scratch and these aren't criticized. In Warcraft 3 Reforged every single unit, building and terrain tile was made a new in high resolution. This alone is enough to call a particular game a remaster. Yes, they promised more (reworked cut-scenes among other) and the price is quite steep, but I wouldn't call this game a failure. The user Metacritic average score is laughable. The game is IMHO a victim of review bombing. I'd give the remaster around 7/10 (the whole game is 10/10 for me).

 

[Johnway]

Reforged version isn't bad. It received the most important upgrade we expect from a remaster - overhauled graphics. There's plenty of remasters which don't offer assets rebuilt from scratch and these aren't criticized. In Warcraft 3 Reforged every single unit, building and terrain tile was made a new in high resolution. This alone is enough to call a particular game a remaster. Yes, they promised more (reworked cut-scenes among other) and the price is quite steep, but I wouldn't call this game a failure. The user Metacritic average score is laughable. The game is IMHO a victim of review bombing. I'd give the remaster around 7/10 (the whole game is 10/10 for me).

i think disappointment sums it up. yes, Warcraft 3 reforged isn't an absolutely car crash, unplayable piece of trash. over time it might be good.


The problem is more how a multibillion dollar company with top notch talent (like blizzard) handled the whole thing. if blizzard just carried out everything they promised , gave it a visual upgrade and kept the rest of the features intact so that compared to WC3 classic it was a superior product, people wouldn't be so upset. Blizzard should have been capable of this.

The fact that they didn't deliver, provided a perceived inferior product (mulitplayer was missing features) and then proceeded to shove the product down the fans throats was both embarrassing and insulting to the fans. not ideal when good will was already slipping from recent controversies.

The only saving grace was that WC3 was delivered a solid SP campaign. But that's hardly saying much. The game had a solid foundations but the renovations by the company wasn't up to scratch.

 

[Valkanen]

Just a quick question on Reforged, does that have Frozen Throne included or have Blizzard taken the approach to scree people over by reforging that separately?

 

[Sarafan]

Just a quick question on Reforged, does that have Frozen Throne included or have Blizzard taken the approach to scree people over by reforging that separately?

Of course it has Frozen Throne included. I can’t imagine it the other way. If you want to jump in, probably it’s not the best moment though. The recent patch that implemented ranked mode introduced also some serious issues in single player campaigns as well. It’s better to wait for another fix (which is on the way) before playing them.

 

[Valkanen]

Of course it has Frozen Throne included. I can’t imagine it the other way. If you want to jump in, probably it’s not the best moment though. The recent patch that implemented ranked mode introduced also some serious issues in single player campaigns as well. It’s better to wait for another fix (which is on the way) before playing them.

You never know with Blizzard. An that's disheartened me a little, but will wait for a more polished gameplay.

 

[Sarafan]

You never know with Blizzard. An that's disheartened me a little, but will wait for a more polished gameplay.

Their policy regarding Warcraft 3 remaster was not enough, to say the least. It took two years to implement ranked mode and when they finally did, it was in a buggy state. Anyway looks like someone is finally working on the game, so we'll probably see the issues fixed in the near future.

 

[redmark_]

Isn't the best RTS in history from the Command and Conquer series? 😅 *wink wink.

 

[Valkanen]

Isn't the best RTS in history from the Command and Conquer series? 😅 *wink wink.

In the famous words of @Sarafan .. Your opinion is your opinion, but it's wrong. (I'm just here to annoy @Brian Boru by any means)

 

[Brian Boru]

In even famouser words: If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.

I'm just here to annoy @Brian Boru by any means

Your existence does that admirably—congrats, Mission Accomplished

 

[Valkanen]

In even famouser words: If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.


Your existence does that admirably—congrats, Mission Accomplished

And my Mother said I'd never amount to anything.

 

[Brian Boru]

Very prescient, your mom.