Novice building pc on the cheap, upgrade over time support.

[Zoid]

It's in the partpicker lists I posted

About £95 for the 1600, and £164 for the 3600. Which is a reasonably decent price for a 3600 (they've often been ~£180ish I think)

The GPU was the RX 570 for £130. The 8gb RX 570 too(!).

It'll be more than fine for Runescape, and should run Halo and Battlefield titles well.

I didn't know OP was referencing your parts list in his post, whoops! Haven't had enough caffeine yet today

@Gaogier yes, as Oussebon said £164 is a good price for a 3600, so assuming you choose to buy from the retailer listing that price, I say go for the 3600 if you can swing it. The 1600 for £95 is a slightly better value if you're calculating frames-per-dollar, but that's not always a relevant calculation to make.

If you're referring to the 8GB RX 570 then yeah, as Oussebon said it will run Runescape very easily and will give you respectable 1080p performance in Halo and Battlefield as well.

 

[Gaogier]

So, I am extremely confused.
cheaper cpu 1600 seems to be good enough as a starter, but if I did get it could I upgrade to a better cpu than the 3600?

same question about the gpu, if I got a cheaper one than 8gb RX 570, then upgrade to one that could run even better graphics?

 

[Oussebon]

For the GPU, with pricing and performance as they are, it just does not make sense to buy anything cheaper than the RX 570.

Maybe something 2nd hand, maybe, depending on pricing.

The the CPU - which CPU you can use is dictated by your motherboard. The B450 motherboards support 1000, 2000, 3000, and are expected to support the as-yet-unreleased 4000 series CPUs. So if you buy a 1600, you could upgrade to (say) an R7 4700x.

On the other hand, that involves spending £95 now and £280-300 later.

Whereas if you buy an R5 3600, you might not feel a desire to upgrade for many years, because it's just faster to begin with. And so it could well be cheaper in the long run.

 

[Zoid]

^ ^ ^ What @Oussebon said.

So, I am extremely confused.
cheaper cpu 1600 seems to be good enough as a starter, but if I did get it could I upgrade to a better cpu than the 3600?

same question about the gpu, if I got a cheaper one than 8gb RX 570, then upgrade to one that could run even better graphics?

The R5 1600 is a good enough CPU, yes. If you want to save as much money as possible, I think it's a a valid pick. It's just important to consider the fact that it is already 3 years old. Yes, you could eventually upgrade to a Ryzen 4000 series CPU with your motherboard. However, as always I would caution you against buying a component that you're already planning to replace. Try to buy a CPU that you think can last you 5 years or so. If that's the 1600, cool. If not, a 3600 might be smarter.

As for GPU, I agree that an 8GB RX 570 for £130 is about the cheapest new GPU I would recommend buying. If you don't want to spend that much, I would say you should be looking on the used market for something like a GTX 970 or RX 480 in the £75 range. The used market is always a risk, but I got my current GPU used and it has been great. It's just a matter of finding a listing that you trust. If you do look used, steer clear of mining cards.

 

[Oussebon]

Let me expand a little as I had to rush off earlier (as I type I see Zoid has literally just posted a lot of the points I'd want to make!).

Here's what to expect from an RX 570 in Battlefield 5:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/palit-geforce-gtx-1650-kalmx/7.html
https://www.techspot.com/review/1746-battlefield-5-gpu-performance/

i.e. ~60fps or better on ultra at 1080p. And if you look at benchmarks for other games, you can expect good 1080p performance on anything from Medium-Ultra depending on the game. It's got a bit of headroom to play future titles without being outrageously expensive. £130.

But what about a cheaper GPU?

The the alternatives to the RX 570 in a similar category or cheaper are things like: GTX 1050 ti, the GTX 1650, GTX 1650 Super, GT 1030, RX 560, RX 550, RX 5500 XT

The RX 550 and Geforce are ~£70-80. They offer about 1/4 of the performance, while costing over half the price. And they really are quite weak cards, perhaps best left for HTPCs, esports, or adding specific video connectors to a system.
The GTX 1050 ti is weaker than the RX 570 overall, while costing the same.
The RX 5500 XT is somewhat better (~15%?) than the RX 570, but costs £170+ (~30% more). Similar story with the 1650 Super
The GTX 1650 is a similar price or more expensive than the RX 570, while being a bit weaker in modern games. And this particular 570 has more VRAM too. The 1650 doesn't recommend itself.

So cheaper or weaker than the RX 570 doesn't make sense, because you're not saving much, while giving yourself much worse performance.

More expensive could make sense, but you're on a tight budget, and spending 30% more for 15% more performance, when the RX 570 already gives pretty solid performance, probably doesn't make sense.

That's why the RX 570 - bang for buck champion.

 

[Gaogier]

It looks like I can’t use the 3600

• Warning!Some AMD B450 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Matisse CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions.

 

[Zoid]

It looks like I can’t use the 3600

• Warning!Some AMD B450 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Matisse CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions.

You can use it. When the 3000 series (Matisse) came out last year, BIOS updates were required for B450 boards to be able to support them, but motherboard manufacturers have been shipping new boards with the BIOS already updated for months now. If you're buying your motherboard new I'd be pretty confident that it will have the correct BIOS. If you were unlucky enough to get a board that's been on the shelves since last July and isn't updated, AMD has a program for lending out older AM4 CPUs that you can use to update your BIOS, or you could send it back to ASRock for an update.

 

[Gaogier]

You can use it. When the 3000 series (Matisse) came out last year, BIOS updates were required for B450 boards to be able to support them, but motherboard manufacturers have been shipping new boards with the BIOS already updated for months now. If you're buying your motherboard new I'd be pretty confident that it will have the correct BIOS. If you were unlucky enough to get a board that's been on the shelves since last July and isn't updated, AMD has a program for lending out older AM4 CPUs that you can use to update your BIOS, or you could send it back to ASRock for an update.

oh okay thank you.


What is the differences in the power supply?

if I didn’t get the gpu (yet) would the pc run, without gaming. Just so I can do some website stuff, I own a few sites which I need to update, and bug fix. Write letters and email, boring work stuff really. I can then learn how Linux works and get used to the new OS.

If you recommend against that idea, it’s okay, it’s been 3 years, it will mean I can’t game as soon as I have it all setup.

 

[Zoid]

oh okay thank you.


What is the differences in the power supply?

if I didn’t get the gpu (yet) would the pc run, without gaming. Just so I can do some website stuff, I own a few sites which I need to update, and bug fix. Write letters and email, boring work stuff really. I can then learn how Linux works and get used to the new OS.

If you recommend against that idea, it’s okay, it’s been 3 years, it will mean I can’t game as soon as I have it all setup.

Power supplies differ based on how much power they can deliver, how cleanly they deliver it, and how efficient they are, plus less important things like modularity and fan noise. Buying a cheap power supply can be dangerous, because a PSU failure can fry your whole system. The SeaSonic S12III 550W that has been recommended is an inexpensive, but still reliable quality power supply, and it has a 5-year warranty for extra peace of mind.

The Ryzen 5 3600 does not have onboard graphics. Your computer will technically turn on with just the CPU, but you will not be able to display an image until you get a GPU.

 

[Gaogier]

Power supplies differ based on how much power they can deliver, how cleanly they deliver it, and how efficient they are, plus less important things like modularity and fan noise. Buying a cheap power supply can be dangerous, because a PSU failure can fry your whole system. The SeaSonic S12III 550W that has been recommended is an inexpensive, but still reliable quality power supply, and it has a 5-year warranty for extra peace of mind.

The Ryzen 5 3600 does not have onboard graphics. Your computer will technically turn on with just the CPU, but you will not be able to display an image until you get a GPU.

ah, so the computer won’t be able to run Linux for things like web browsing to coding a website (which uses graphics in the coding). It’s best to get the gpu too. That’s good with me.

the psu looks good to me.

 

[Oussebon]

ah, so the computer won’t be able to run Linux for things like web browsing to coding a website (which uses graphics in the coding)

It's not about the graphics in the coding of a website exactly

The CPU has no integrated graphics, so cannot output video. It has no hardware to let it sent a picture to a monitor on its own, so it needs a dedicated graphics card.

 

[Gaogier]

Okay, so in my signature I have added my PC part list so I can get and build my new PC (running Linux)

I don't know what type of linux yet, any suggestions?
I still need a good few things, Mouse, Keyboard, Bluetooth, Headphones, WiFi - any suggestions - must work with linux and windows please.

I am currently able to buy a few things now, and in two weeks I can get the rest.
I am able to buy the case, power, motherboard and memory. I already have a SSD although I might get a bigger storage later this year - as I can have a few SSD at the same time (right?)

 

[Oussebon]

Looks good.

As for Linux, go with Ubuntu - probably the easiest beginner Linux. Has an app-store of sorts to make it easier to acquire software, and you'll be able to find info on how to do X with it very easily.

The case has 2 x 2.5" bays, and 3 x 3.5" bays. The motherboard has 6 sata ports, and 2 M.2 slots. So you could have quite a lot of SSDs.

However, you don't want too many SSDs, because juggling games and managing space between lots of smaller drives is a pain in the neck!

Rather buying a 500gb SSD for games, then buying another 500gb SSD when you find that's getting full, much more convenient to just have a single 1TB SSD. Uses up fewer slots in your system / has fewer cables, and much easier to manage game installs than having to balance space between two separate drives

And it's often a bit cheaper in total, too. e.g. a 500gb Crucial MX500 SSD is £65 on Amazon, while a 1TB one is ~£105.

 

[Gaogier]

As I am not going to have any games downloaded onto the ssd until I get windows (December 2020) for halo, I plan to buy at least a 1tb ssd, plan for 2tb ssd.

do you think I am getting the right case if it only has 2 ssd slots?

edit. I am getting this case, but didn’t know if I should keep an eye for new case in a few years for more ssd slots.

 

[Zoid]

As I am not going to have any games downloaded onto the ssd until I get windows (December 2020) for halo, I plan to buy at least a 1tb ssd, plan for 2tb ssd.

do you think I am getting the right case if it only has 2 ssd slots?

edit. I am getting this case, but didn’t know if I should keep an eye for new case in a few years for more ssd slots.

Your case will probably have adapters in the 3.5" drive trays that allow them to work with 2.5" drives, so you would have 5 bays total, plus your additional M.2 slot. Besides, SSDs are small and light, so you could even use velcro or double-sided tape to stick them anywhere else in your case. You'll have plenty of room for SSDs.

Besides, I wouldn't recommend having more than 2 extra drives anyway just to save yourself the headache. Like @Oussebon said, juggling games and files between multiple drives can be a pain, so it's better to just get one or two that are large enough to cover the capacity you need.

 

[Gaogier]

So, if I keep the 120gb drive for Linux, keep that installed, I could put windows on the new ssd and would be able to boot between both drives correct? Like a physical partition? As someone said earlier in this thread, the games are only 100gb or so so I could in theory have 10-20 games per ssd? Not forgetting I only really play RuneScape, Halo and Battlefield.

 

[Oussebon]

So, if I keep the 120gb drive for Linux, keep that installed, I could put windows on the new ssd and would be able to boot between both drives correct?

Yes

Your case is fine for storage slots - you can get adapters that let you have 2 SSDs per 3.5" bay too. And you won't need anywhere near that many SSDs

As someone said earlier in this thread, the games are only 100gb or so so I could in theory have 10-20 games per ssd? Not forgetting I only really play RuneScape, Halo and Battlefield.

A 1TB SSD would be more than fine for Windows, a couple of BF titles, Halo, and a few other games on top if you decide to dabble in more PC titles.

 

[Gaogier]

Question about memory. Can the PC run on one slot? Is it always recommended to have 2 slots? Asking for both pc and mac.

 

[Zoid]

Question about memory. Can the PC run on one slot? Is it always recommended to have 2 slots? Asking for both pc and mac.

Yes, computers (Mac or PC) can run with a single memory DIMM installed. The reason that multi-channel memory configurations (most commonly dual-channel) are recommended is because they are faster. Dual-channel memory controllers can access two memory DIMMs simultaneously, effectively doubling the maximum memory bandwidth.

When buying RAM, you should match the number of sticks of RAM you use to the number of channels your memory controller can access at one time.

Your motherboard supports dual-channel memory, which means your two 8GB sticks will perform better than a single 16GB stick.

 

[Gaogier]

okay, so my macbook pro has 2GB and 4GB ram installed. I am having problems with having either 2GB and 2GB or 4GB and 4GB, no idea why or how to fix.

I was thinking if the new motherboard supports 64GB would it be wise and buy 16GB slot now or 2x8GB or 2x16GB

 

[Oussebon]

It can run on 1 slot.

But it's always recommend to run the RAM as dual channel - a matched 2 x 8gb kit. The best way to ensure the 2 RAM sticks are compatible is to buy them as part of a matched kit.

 

[Oussebon]

okay, so my macbook pro has 2GB and 4GB ram installed. I am having problems with having either 2GB and 2GB or 4GB and 4GB, no idea why or how to fix.

If they're not all from matched kits, it could just be that only some of the sticks are compatible / playing nice with each other.

I was thinking if the new motherboard supports 64GB would it be wise and buy 16GB slot now or 2x8GB or 2x16GB

Unless you have extremely niche gaming interests - certain simulators mostly - or you take up video editing for a living, you won't need more than 16gb RAM for the lifetime of the system.

 

[Zoid]

I was thinking if the new motherboard supports 64GB would it be wise and buy 16GB slot now or 2x8GB or 2x16GB

2x8GB is all you need for the games you want to play. I wouldn't buy any more than that now unless you have a specific reason to.

If you did decide sometime in the future that you wanted to upgrade to 32GB, you could buy another 2x8GB kit to populate your motherboard's other two RAM slots. Your motherboard has 4 slots total. Buying one 2x8GB kit now will let you utilize the full memory bandwidth while leaving room for an upgrade if it ever becomes necessary.

 

[Gaogier]

Okay so, I would in the far future be video editing, but no where near soon.

 

[Gaogier]

So, I have brought some parts to this PC I am building. I am looking forward to a few weeks so I can get it put together - why a few weeks I hear you thinking. I have brought the CPU, Motherboard, Memory and I already have the SSD. I am still trying to do some research on the other parts, while the other parts get here in 3 or so weeks due to coronavirus outbreak things are a little slow and I choose the free delivery and slower delivery times - mostly to help free the dedicated delivery people. Second, I don't know if I would get this GPU, I am now thinking why not use the money I have put aside and get the more expensive but (I assume) better GPU. Thirdly I am not 100% sure on the PSU, I am thinking its okay to use, but not sure its going to be a good one on power - its bronzed rated.


For the GPU, I was thinking of getting the XFX Radeon RX 570 8 GB Video Card but now I am thinking XFX Radeon RX 580 8 GB GTS XXX ED Video Card What is the difference, does the £20 extra price make it worth that extra price?