Novice building pc on the cheap, upgrade over time support.

[is_died]

Well, I do enjoy being spectacularly counterproductive.

Specific in-depth reviews are always better than a broad number, absolutely. I've found Passmark to be a good way to get a search started when I have a general use case in mind (low-end or mid-range builds, specific budgets, etc.) -- but I suppose it's not worth bothering with Passmark when you've got a forum full of experienced people eager to help with your exact needs.

With that, I'll wander to other threads and pretend I didn't cause confusion here.

 

[Inspireless Llama]

or b) ask on a forum and take advice from people who have read that material - and ofc ask them to explain why A is a better choice than B. So you know they're not just talking rubbish.

I am NOT saying it's the case here but this is something you always need to be careful of. Sometimes people may seem like they know what they're talking about while it's actually crap. I think especially Reddit has that happening, where someone gets points for being useful only by the fact they wrote a long post and they look like they know what they're talking about.

Specific in-depth reviews are always better than a broad number, absolutely. I've found Passmark to be a good way to get a search started when I have a general use case in mind (low-end or mid-range builds, specific budgets, etc.) -- but I suppose it's not worth bothering with Passmark when you've got a forum full of experienced people eager to help with your exact needs.

Some other forums I look at occasionally (focussed on hardware) require from you that you do your own research. A lot of people will be able to help you but they expect you to have a basis at least and show that you've read into what you want and what's possible. I think that could be a good option too, I think it can be too easy to have others do the research for you while you just sit back and relax.

As for good and bad on your CPU I agree that there's not really a good or bad. Certainly, AMD compared with Intel you can have an opinion about and right now AMD is better than Intel. Doesn't make Intel bad though.
For APU vs CPU & GPU it also depends on the games you play. For the ones you want to play properly, you need a CPU & GPU. If you'd only play browsergames and watch movies on your PC you would have enough with a APU.

 

[Oussebon]

Well, I do enjoy being spectacularly counterproductive.

With that, I'll wander to other threads and pretend I didn't cause confusion here.

! I certainly didn't mean it that way

Simply I tend to challenge Passmark, and certain other websites, on sight as they are very concerning to me. I don't mean to bash the person posting them in good faith for doing so.

Sincere apologies if any offense given.

And I certainly don't claim to be experienced either - hence why i rely on Techspot and co.

I am NOT saying it's the case here but this is something you always need to be careful of. Sometimes people may seem like they know what they're talking about while it's actually crap. I think especially Reddit has that happening, where someone gets points for being useful only by the fact they wrote a long post and they look like they know what they're talking about.

I totally agree with that. There is a lot of bad advice out there. That's why anyone giving advice should ideally give an explanation, provide a link to an article or two if relevant, and (ideally) have input from others to validate.

Not that weight of numbers is always right either, but it improves the chance someone will flag up any alternatives / flaws, so the person asking for advice can do their own research on A vs B.

 

[Zoid]

Well, I do enjoy being spectacularly counterproductive.

Specific in-depth reviews are always better than a broad number, absolutely. I've found Passmark to be a good way to get a search started when I have a general use case in mind (low-end or mid-range builds, specific budgets, etc.) -- but I suppose it's not worth bothering with Passmark when you've got a forum full of experienced people eager to help with your exact needs.

With that, I'll wander to other threads and pretend I didn't cause confusion here.

Dude you're all good! You were adding helpful information to the discussion! Sites like Passmark do have their place. Like you say, they can be useful for getting a broad view of the playing field to get a general sense of where things stack up. This can be good for helping to orient people who don't know what all the different options are for CPUs and GPUs.

I am NOT saying it's the case here but this is something you always need to be careful of. Sometimes people may seem like they know what they're talking about while it's actually crap. I think especially Reddit has that happening, where someone gets points for being useful only by the fact they wrote a long post and they look like they know what they're talking about.

I totally agree with that. There is a lot of bad advice out there. That's why anyone giving advice should ideally give an explanation, provide a link to an article or two if relevant, and (ideally) have input from others to validate.

Not that weight of numbers is always right either, but it improves the chance someone will flag up any alternatives / flaws, so the person asking for advice can do their own research on A vs B.

Thanks for making these points. Absolutely, I agree (and I was debating whether to take out r/buildapc since reddit can be a little sketchy with the quality of advice). As with anything on the internet, research in multiple places. Absorb the information you collect, then vet it against other sources. If you are hearing "this is a good CPU" from people on forums, rankings on passmark, and reviews on professional tech sites, then that's a good indicator that it is, indeed, good.

Even with these forums, take the advice we're giving and then go check it out on your own to make sure you agree.

 

[Gaogier]

Okay, I have updated this this discussion’s first post. I will now update that post with parts I have chosen to get. If you can help me pin point out each part within my estimated budged that would be great.

 

[Oussebon]

Setting budget for the individual components doesn't really work, you need a budget for the whole system.

Because you might not need to spend £150 on A, but could benefit from spending more than £100 on B.

What is the budget for the full system?

 

[Gaogier]

Approximately £450-£500

 

[Oussebon]

Bear in mind that availability of these components and pricing is all over the place right now. The supply chain has been hit pretty badly by the pandemic, and people have probably been self building a lot too.

Something like:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 (14nm) 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor (£94.97 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: ASRock B450M-HDV Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£54.42 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (£74.98 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Crucial BX500 480 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£57.59 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 570 8 GB Video Card (£124.99 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Thermaltake Versa H21 ATX Mid Tower Case (£35.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12III 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£49.99 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £492.41
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-04-12 11:23 BST+0100

R5 1600 + RX 570 should give a decent gaming experience on the titles you mentioned
B450 mobo allows for at least a future CPU upgrade to 4000 series, if desired. Otherwise is the least expensive one available.
16gb RAM - worth buying this outright as you will want 16gb before long and it is more cost effective to get it in one go than get 8gb and replace it
Cheapest 500gb SSD that isn't garbage - makes more sense than a 240gb SSD as games can be quite large and you ideally want your favourite games on an SSD.
Cheapest 500W non-garbage PSU currently on offer
Very cheap case. Ideally stretch a bit more for the Fractal Focus G.

No windows licence. Use Linux until you can afford a Windows licence.

 

[Gaogier]

So, why micro atx? Surely spending more and getting a full size atx is more future proof? Even if it means waiting an extra month or two. The game I really want to play at the moment is RuneScape, which is due on iOS soon. Therefore I can wait.

 

[Oussebon]

Micro ATX boards happen to be cheaper.

ATX boards have more expansion slots. But unless you're adding in PCIe expansion cards, that's not relevant. And many things that come as PCIe expansion cards also come in other formats - for instance sound cards can be PCIe expansion cards, but they can also be USB. Wifi can be added to a PC with an expansion card, or a USB adapter. There are PCIe game capture devices e.g. to record console gaming footage but there are also USB ones.

So I wouldn't worry about ATX.

The first thing I'd improve on for the above is the case, as that arguably has a bigger physical impact on things you will definitely upgrade over the years. And after that you could get a better motherboard - one with more M.2 slots (rather than PCIe expansion slots) and better 'VRMs'.

ATX boards can support multi GPU setups, but that is extremely unlikely to be relevant to you (together with 99.99% of gamers) as multi GPU setups only make sense when using the highest end GPUs. Or for non-gaming uses like rendering.

Motherboards:
e.g. ASRock B450M Pro4 - M-ATX - 2 M.2 slots, and USB 3.1 Gen 2 - ~£70
e.g. ASRock Fatal1ty B450 Gaming K4 - ATX, ditto - £95

 

[Gaogier]

I think I would prefer the atx board, I used to run a site of guides etc for the game RuneScape, which I would like that option if future - currently no plans.

I would also like to add WiFi and Bluetooth internally, keeping the pc clean of USB’s

I think getting a better case would be a good option, one that will look and work best for my room and overall setup.

 

[Oussebon]

I'd say that's fair enough!

The Fractal Focus G is a very good budget level case. Or were you thinking of a different aesthetic? If so, what sort of aesthetic?

 

[Gaogier]

Just something to match with my radio and speakers. LG CM4330

 

[Oussebon]

The Focus G comes in a range of colours includinfg red and black

Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case

uk.pcpartpicker.com

Corsair Spec O4 is alright (and has black and red theme)

Corsair SPEC-04 ATX Mid Tower Case

uk.pcpartpicker.com

You'll likely want to add an extra fan with that case, so that adds £5-10

Some cases like the Corsair Spec Delta are best avoided, while the Spec Alpha seems too expensive to be worth it

I suppose any black case with RGB lighting might do aesthetically since you can customise the colours to suit whatever you want. The trick is finding one of those that isn't too expensive, but doesn't suck.

Corsair's iCUE case maybe:

Corsair iCUE 220T RGB Airflow ATX Mid Tower Case

uk.pcpartpicker.com

The Game Max Titan is quite good for a budget case:

GameMax Titan RGB ATX Mid Tower Case

uk.pcpartpicker.com

Any of those?

Not sure about a 'matching' aesthetic, but the Phanteks P400A has quite a neutral aesthetic and is a very decent case:

Phanteks Eclipse P400A ATX Mid Tower Case

uk.pcpartpicker.com

It also looks a little speaker-like with its mesh front There are also more expensive versions with RGB fans

 

[Gaogier]

Out of those, I think Corsair SPEC-04 ATX Mid Tower Case looks best out of those.

 

[Oussebon]

It should do the job, and you can always add an extra fan when building the system (or indeed afterwards).

 

[Gaogier]

So, I plan on getting the Corsair SPEC-04 ATX Mid Tower Case. I have found a spare 120gb ssd. SanDisk SSD PLUS 120 GB Sata III 2.5 Inch Internal SSD, Up to 530 MB/s or shall I get a bigger ssd now and not upgrade when I get windows? (I want Linux running first).

so I still need

power
Memory
Motherboard
Cpu
Gpu

 

[is_died]

A 120GB SSD will be fine for your operating system. Linux will do fine on it, and when it's time for the switch over to Windows it won't have problems either.

The issue with an SSD that small is that while the whole system will be snappier & smoother by installing the OS on it, you won't have much room for games.

It's fairly common to have an SSD with the OS, and a separate HDD to install games on. That's fine, and I do it too, but it means any game on the HDD loses the SSD's benefits. A larger SSD would let you put your favorite / most demanding games on it alongside the operating system, giving you the best of both worlds.

You've mentioned wanting to play Battlefield, and those games benefit a lot from being installed on an SSD. Those maps are big and detailed, so an SSD can really speed your loading times into each match. Battlefield games are also pretty gigantic on the hard drive (BFV is ~85GB, and BF1 is ~81 GB).


Additionally, a used SSD will have a reduced lifespan. That's pretty obvious, but SSD's -- from my limited knowledge -- slow down the longer they're used. If the SSD wasn't in regular use for years, it's probably good enough, but it's something to be aware of.

It's also a factor that when SSD's eventually die, they're extremely difficult to salvage data from -- moreso than mechanical hard drives.

 

[Gaogier]

I got the ssd back in 2017 I think, it’s never been used. I got one ssd 240gb for my MacBook Pro and a 120gb which I was going to use to try and salvage the data in my broken hhd from my MacBook Pro. In the end I didn’t use it.

the following games will be on the pc, RuneScape, Halo Infinite and Battlefield 6 when that comes out. I have the older games on console so may not buy them on pc. When Halo comes out is when I will get windows.

So do I now look for a motherboard or cpu next?

 

[Oussebon]

So do I now look for a motherboard or cpu next?

You could take the spec posted above as a starting point

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 (14nm) 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor (£94.97 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: ASRock B450M-HDV Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£54.42 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (£74.98 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Crucial BX500 480 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£57.59 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 570 8 GB Video Card (£124.99 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Thermaltake Versa H21 ATX Mid Tower Case (£35.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12III 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£49.99 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £492.41
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-04-12 11:23 BST+0100

And see if you're happy with it?

 

[Oussebon]

Given the upfront savings on the SSD and that, and you wanted an ATX mobo, maybe updated as follows:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (£163.98 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty B450 GAMING K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard (£90.72 @ SmartTeck.co.uk)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (£76.98 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: SanDisk SSD PLUS 120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For £0.00)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 570 8 GB Video Card (£129.99 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Corsair SPEC-04 ATX Mid Tower Case (£56.99 @ AWD-IT)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12III 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£55.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
Total: £574.13
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-04-17 12:34 BST+0100

Also with a better CPU. Though you could stick to the 1600 if that becomes too expensive.

 

[Zoid]

So do I now look for a motherboard or cpu next?

You should be looking for all your components at the same time you can buy a motherboard, CPU, power supply, RAM, or GPU next, but until you can buy all of those you won't have a functioning system.

There have already been lots of great parts lists posted in this thread. Why don't you let us know what you think of those?

 

[Gaogier]

You should be looking for all your components at the same time you can buy a motherboard, CPU, power supply, RAM, or GPU next, but until you can buy all of those you won't have a functioning system.

There have already been lots of great parts lists posted in this thread. Why don't you let us know what you think of those?

I am looking at building the pc using pcpartpicker. I am saving up to buy all at once.

so I am happy with,

MotherBoard @ ASRock Fatal1ty B450 GAMING K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard
Memory @ Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory
Storage @ SanDisk SSD PLUS 120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive - have already from fixing my MacBook - it’s unused
Case @ Corsair SPEC-04 ATX Mid Tower Case


what are the differences of the Ryzen 5 1600 and 3600?
what sort of graphics will the gpu provide? For RuneScape it says I need a minimum requirement is AMD Radeon 7xxx series

 

[Zoid]

I am looking at building the pc using pcpartpicker. I am saving up to buy all at once.

so I am happy with,

MotherBoard @ ASRock Fatal1ty B450 GAMING K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard
Memory @ Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory
Storage @ SanDisk SSD PLUS 120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive - have already from fixing my MacBook - it’s unused
Case @ Corsair SPEC-04 ATX Mid Tower Case


what are the differences of the Ryzen 5 1600 and 3600?
what sort of graphics will the gpu provide? For RuneScape it says I need a minimum requirement is AMD Radeon 7xxx series

Those parts seem solid to me.

The Ryzen 5 3600 is a newer version of the Ryzen 5 1600. They are both 6-core CPUs with "Simultaneous Multithreading" technology which means each CPU core is split into two processing threads, so the CPU has 6 cores / 12 threads. The 3600 will perform noticeably better than the 1600, but the 1600 is still a good CPU that will be able to play any of the games you list with ease. You can take a look at the benchmarks in this article which list both the Ryzen 5 1600 and the 3600.

The 3600 is the better CPU, but the 1600 might be the better value depending on price. What are the prices of the two CPUs where you're shopping?

As for GPU, any modern GPU will play Runescape no problem. What GPUs are you considering?

 

[Oussebon]

What are the prices of the two CPUs where you're shopping?

It's in the partpicker lists I posted

About £95 for the 1600, and £164 for the 3600. Which is a reasonably decent price for a 3600 (they've often been ~£180ish I think)

The GPU was the RX 570 for £130. The 8gb RX 570 too(!).

It'll be more than fine for Runescape, and should run Halo and Battlefield titles well.