Question Features that make a good turn based tactics game?

[kingslayer]

Hi everyone! This is my first post here and I wanted to ask what gameplay features make for a good turn based tactics game?

I played the recent XCOM Chimera Squad and Gears Tactics and saw how they follow different rules that allow for different playstyles depending on the character you pick. I also liked the exploration and gameplay of the Divinity Original Sin series as well. I have also heard good things about games like Jagged Alliance 2, Mario Rabbids and Silent Storm series.

 

[Zloth]

Wow, been ages since I played Jagged Alliance 2. I think I got a long way into it but didn't quite finish it? Mostly what I remember is "Eeeeeehliot you Iiiiiiiidiot!!"

That's a pretty open question, though. Something that's a good feature in one game might be pretty pointless in another. For general stuff, though, it should have a real good save system and camera controls.

If you're looking for other turn-based tactics games, I would recommend BattleTech first (given that you just did an XCOM thing). Or you might want to try Valkyria Chronicles for something more 3D.

 

[Zoid]

One thing that I think is absolutely critical for a good turn-based strategy game is giving the player complete and consistent information. I love XCOM 2 and the Divinity OS 2 but even so, both of them could stand to make improvements on this. I think this becomes more important as the difficulty and tactical challenge to the player increases.

In Divinity, the combat order can shuffle around based on a number of factors, but it sometimes becomes obscured to the point that you don't know why your turn is being skipped. In XCOM 2 I've noticed many times where I'll study the enemy line of sight in order to make a move that keeps me concealed, only to find as I make the move that the line of sight changes and I end up being revealed. It's these kinds of moments, where you go "Wait, what? Why did that happen?" that bring in the frustration factor that is the enemy of fun for turn-based strategy.

Ultimately I think that both XCOM 2 and Divinity OS 2 are some of the best turn-based strategy games around and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, but I do think that all turn-based games, great or not, can seek to further refine the way they impart tactical information to the player.

 

[Zloth]

In XCOM 2 I've noticed many times where I'll study the enemy line of sight in order to make a move that keeps me concealed, only to find as I make the move that the line of sight changes and I end up being revealed.

It happens when there's an enemy you don't see, so you also don't see its sight area.

 

[kingslayer]

Wow, been ages since I played Jagged Alliance 2. I think I got a long way into it but didn't quite finish it? Mostly what I remember is "Eeeeeehliot you Iiiiiiiidiot!!"

That's a pretty open question, though. Something that's a good feature in one game might be pretty pointless in another. For general stuff, though, it should have a real good save system and camera controls.

If you're looking for other turn-based tactics games, I would recommend BattleTech first (given that you just did an XCOM thing). Or you might want to try Valkyria Chronicles for something more 3D.

Ah, I should have been more specific but I wanted to know what features make these type of games enjoyable since there has been a lot of them popping up recently and each does adopt a different type of style. Like how Wasteland 3 uses multiple AP system with XCOM's grid and overwatch mechanics. While Gears Tactics uses fixed AP points but with grid-less movement like Divinity OS.

I am enjoying the gameplay of Gears Tactics but I feel the level design and progression can be improved.

I've tried Battletech and did enjoy the overall presentation and gameplay but unfortunately it is a long commitment and I did wish the performance was better. It's based on Unity which does get a bad rep these days but the game is calculating a lot of factors like individual limb damage on each mech.

 

[kingslayer]

One thing that I think is absolutely critical for a good turn-based strategy game is giving the player complete and consistent information. I love XCOM 2 and the Divinity OS 2 but even so, both of them could stand to make improvements on this. I think this becomes more important as the difficulty and tactical challenge to the player increases.

In Divinity, the combat order can shuffle around based on a number of factors, but it sometimes becomes obscured to the point that you don't know why your turn is being skipped. In XCOM 2 I've noticed many times where I'll study the enemy line of sight in order to make a move that keeps me concealed, only to find as I make the move that the line of sight changes and I end up being revealed. It's these kinds of moments, where you go "Wait, what? Why did that happen?" that bring in the frustration factor that is the enemy of fun for turn-based strategy.

Ultimately I think that both XCOM 2 and Divinity OS 2 are some of the best turn-based strategy games around and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, but I do think that all turn-based games, great or not, can seek to further refine the way they impart tactical information to the player.

I agree that these types of games would do with more info on what kind of factors like line of sight when moving to a different grid, description of a status or initiative rank. XCOM 2 breaks down the chance to hit percentages if you're flanking, on higher ground, etc and gives you a target preview when you go to a new grid. Even Gears Tactics helpfully does the same.

The Initiative system is interesting the Divinity series that characters with higher agility(I think that stat affects it) will act earlier in the turn phase. It does allow you to focus on enemies that come later in the phase that you can slow them down/delay their attacks till the next turn.

Chimera Squad did something similar and it took me a while to realize that enemies with interleaved turns between your squad can be prioritized first so that you can get a more traditional XCOM battle.

XCOM 2's stealth is kind of tricky as you can't do much if an enemy comes into detection range during your turn. I think other games like Wasteland 2 had original planned to have a real time stealth mode(like Commandos complete with green LOS waves) and once you're detected, a turn based battle begins. I think Divinity OS also does that but I haven't tried a stealth rogue/build.

 

[Johnway]

I had been messing around with jagged alliance 2 last week and i think theres one hell of a game there but the biggest hurdle (like most older games) is the UI and some balancing issues. i had to restart the game 3 times and STILL couldn't get anywhere. I had a few gripes with the game. I even installed the 1.13 mod and whilst it made things easier, it also made things a hell of a lot harder (even if it was plausible). Its at this point i kinda stopped. I'll probably go back to it one day and tweak the settings disabling/enabling all sorts of things to make it better.

There is the updated version of Jagged alliance 2 called jagged alliance Back in Action not sure what thats like, but it mixed atm,.


i did play silent storm as well. its alright it took a while for me to get anywhere in the game and i think the sci fi elements kinda ruin it.

Personally i rate Fallout Tactics pretty highly. Even if it does get brutally difficult in places,

 

[McStabStab]

Minimal "timed" objectives. I hate having X amount of turns to do something. When I played X-Com (1994) I loved slowly and methodically moving my team around the maps, being extra careful about every corner peaked and room breached. XCOM (2012) did an update and it was pretty freaking great.

XCOM 2 remains on my shitlist. Timers on top of timers.

 

[Hveðrungr]

XCOM 2 remains on my shitlist. Timers on top of timers.

There's a menu setting to double the length of all timers. If that's still too fast, consider reducing the difficulty.

 

[Mazer]

I always appreciate a nice clear turn-order display, and mechanics for changing that order. Like buffs or debuffs to change unit speed, knockdowns etc. Basically, tools to visualise the next few moves and interfere with them as needed.

I also wanted to come here to give a shout out to a long forgotten squad tactics game, Incubation. It may be uglier than a hatful of bums nowadays but back in '97 it was the first in the genre to go full 3D which allowed for action camera shots and jetpack traversal of vertical spaces, a full 15 years before XCOM did it.

XCOM 2 remains on my shitlist. Timers on top of timers.

I hate the stress too, I'm a very conservative player in games like this. Presumably a holdover from being a nine year old terrified of the noises coming from the shadows behind a barn during enemy turns of UFO. I understand they wanted to encourage risk taking but I prefer the method used in the Enemy Within add-on where they incentivised speed via the timed meld capsules rather than punishing caution with mission failstates.

 

[Pifanjr]

I do agree with clear information being important. I tried Fire Emblem once but quit when I realized that enemy reinforcements spawning behind your lines in the middle of a mission was common.

I also hated how in Final Fantasy Tactics you can't see your hit range while deciding where to move, nor can you cancel your move.

One thing I wanted to add that's fairly minor is the ability to personalize your units. I think squad/party based turn based tactic games do become a better when you care about your units and they're not just interchangeable.

 

[Mazer]

I also hated how in Final Fantasy Tactics you can't see your hit range while deciding where to move, nor can you cancel your move.

Seconded. Same as when a game doesn't give you any way of reserving action points while directing movement. Hence the two-action system gaining current popularity I guess.

 

[Hveðrungr]

By the way, for an off-beat indie entry in the genre, I really enjoyed All Walls Must Fall.