Baldur's Gate III

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Jan 14, 2020
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Nice D&D implementation, very detailed/deep combat system, good cutscenes, but Divinity 3 does not have a Baldurs Gate feeling though

I am still optimistic.
 

Zloth

Community Contributor
Game looks great but it really looks like Divinity OS 3 with a different skin. I'm sure most people are fine with that though.
And a different lore - but D;OS3 certainly works for me. Though one of those "leaked" screenshots (does it really count as leaked when it shows up just hours before the articles?) has "Turn Based" at the top of the screen while another has "Combat Mode." Why do that if combat is always turn based? Maybe turn-based-while-not-in-combat? Or maybe there's going to be a RTwP option along side the turn based mode?
 

Kaamos_Llama

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Jan 31, 2020
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I'll play it and probably enjoy it a lot. What I dont understand is why use the Baldurs Gate name if youre going to do something so far departed from the style of the originals?

I would have thought a new IP in the D&D universe would have worked out better if they were going to do this. By using the Baldurs Gate name people have certain expectations of style, atmosphere and combat that they dont seem to be meeting.

I think those who are more familiar with Divinity OS 1 and 2 then the Infinity engine games probably don't care, and that's also valid.

@Zloth I believe in the presentation they explained how they dislike RTWP combat because its too messy so I dont think so, unfortunuately.

@Mknott I think theyve added the cutscenes to try and emphasize the story to make it more 'Baldurs Gate-y'. They certainly must know that the rest of the game shares no DNA with the rest of the series in other ways.
 
Jan 14, 2020
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Kinda hyped really.

The people that call or see it as a Original Sin 2: Facelift Edition should consider a couple of thinks. Original Sin 1-2 were very influenced by Baldurs Gate and D&D. Especially Original Sin 2 felt very close to what playing Pen & Paper D&D feels like. So its logical that its now coming full circle. You could make a similar comparison when it comes to Tomb Raider being heavily influenced by Indiana Jones, Uncharted being influenced by Tomb Raider and the newest Tomb Raider games being influenced by Uncharted.

The interesting things are in the details. Afaik Larian is doing a great job converting the inner workings of D&D into working and fun gameplay. I am also very glad that we stick to turn based combat. Its interesting how younger me (10 years ago) thought that real time combat with the option to pause it was more or less the holy grail of isometric rpgs. I did replay BG2 and other rpgs with similar combat systems (PoE etc.) and that system always falls apart when more than 4-5 characters take part in combat. It becomes a huge mess.

The biggest question that I have is how the story and characters will feel. Baldurs Gate was not completely 110% super serious all the time, but the overall tone was pretty serious. Original Sin (especially 1) always felt like it was too often mixing a serious tone with what is pretty close to slapstick. I dont want or need a BG3 to be edgy grimdark, but I hope we keep tone the humor of Original Sin down a bit.
 
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Kaamos_Llama

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Jan 31, 2020
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@MeFirst

We also have to wait and see what it turns out like in full. I have definitely jumped the gun in saying it shares no DNA. We dont know everything yet. It looks to me to be an evolution of D:OS 2 in most ways. I was hoping for something incredible and totally new. I dont know what that looks like, maybe we'll see. I'm sure this game will Metacritic well whatever happens.

I don't think RTWP is messy, if its messy you're not pausing enough and thinking IMO. I always thought of RTWP as turn based. You just decide when the turns are. Now, I also enjoy the turn based combat in Divinity OS/2. But its not a replacement of the other to my mind. It is its own thing.

I've not played D&D in nearly 25 years, and even at the time of BG whether one system was more faithful to TT or not never entered my mind. I want the new Baldurs Gate to be faithful to Baldurs Gate. Otherwise I'd have just called it something else.


 
Jan 18, 2020
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Hell, I've never played Baldur's Gate and I'm a bit disappointed with the reveal. I enjoyed DOS2, but as people are saying...it looks like a reskin.

I'll buy it, play it and enjoy it, but I can't help they've missed out on some of it's potential by not differentiating it much from their previous titles.
 

Zloth

Community Contributor
All this talk about a re-skin... I don't get it? It's the same (or at least a very similar) engine so of course, so the graphics are bound to look very similar. Is that what people are talking about? So does that mean Planescape: Torment was a re-skin of Baldur's Gate!? Or is it something else?

@MeFirst - yeah, they definitely need to tone down the humor WITHOUT turning it off. Baldur's Gate without Minsc would have been a lot less fun, after all. The were-sheep will need to stay back in Rivellon, though.
 

Kaamos_Llama

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Jan 31, 2020
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All this talk about a re-skin... I don't get it? It's the same (or at least a very similar) engine so of course, so the graphics are bound to look very similar. Is that what people are talking about? So does that mean Planescape: Torment was a re-skin of Baldur's Gate!? Or is it something else?
Well Infinity engine games were all similar for obvious reasons, so yes in a way it was. An even more story rich take on the same template. Icewind Dale was a combat based take. At the time people enjoyed the combat so much they made an entire game light on story based around the combat that sold very well and was very well received. I think its mainly those old 'boomers' (Technically I'm a millenial but eh :p) who got a kick in the nostalgias at the reveal.

I think the tone of the cutscenes was O.K, its just when wandering the map in game I could hear the were-sheep in the distance.

I'm mildly disappointed at this point, hopefully over time that will turn to pleasantly surprised!

I just wanted to add a note that I didnt want BG3 in the Infinity engine, the time for that has gone. But I was excited for them to do something like ID did with Doom. Keeping the soul of the game and improving it for the modern day in a way that made a similar tone and gameplay feel exciting and new again. I'm not convinced thats what we are getting.
 
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Jan 14, 2020
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Yeah that's quite funny, since back in the day nobody complained that Icewind Dale 1 & 2 were not even Re-skins. You could see them as Stand-alone expansions. The biggest difference that especially Icewind Dale 1 was designed as a Dungeon Crawler and not so much as a story heavy RPG. But even that changed with 2, where the biggest "new thing" was that it was using D&D Third Edition.
 
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Kaamos_Llama

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Oh! I never played Icewind Dale 2. looks like its on GOG, so thanks for adding that to my back log, I guess :p

It was more common to reuse assets back then I think people were more used to it from the nineties. A quick look on Timetobeat tells me theres 30 to 50 hours of Icewind Dale, they were pretty meaty for expansions.

While PoE did well, PoE2 Deadfire reviewed well but didn't really sell, I guess that's another factor that pushed WotC and Larian towards the route they've taken. I didnt buy Deadfire yet either, oopsie.
 
Jan 14, 2020
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PoE was more or less the last straw for me when it came to real time - but pausable combat. Le'ts not forget that PoE 2 also got round based combat as a option with a later update. ;-)

I did like PoE 1 but the combat didnt feel great. Its also worth mentioning that Original Sin 2 more or less has no filler combat encounters (thx for the last Kotaku Splitscreen Podcast for mentioning it). Almost every combat encounter feels good because you can die in every one. You also have a lot of options how to beat it too. The older games from the Infinity Engine Era often had a loooot of filler combat and I dont even mean random encounters. You often had a lot of encounters like "two skeletons in a hallway" and you just select all characters, click attack and both are dead in a matter of seconds.

PoE just felt more of the same, but also a bit messy when it came to the story and the world. I also did not really like the whole islands with pirates and colonialism setting.
 

Kaamos_Llama

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PoE 2 didnt sell well at all, I think the turn based mode was an attempt to try and pull some of those simpler folks in who couldnt deal with the RTWP :p

I didnt really enjoy the overall story of PoE as much as I have some. It was fine l but I just enjoy that kind of combat and that art style. Pathfinder Kingmaker is even more oblique in its stats, spells and buffs system. I haven't even scratched the surface of it 20 hours in.

Speaking of which Steam says I spent 120 hours or something each in D:OS2 and D:OS both are good games. They don't have any of those easy mob fights because the time filler is inherent to the turn based system.

I hope its clear I'm joking, I really do enjoy both systems, and I think there's room for refinement in a RTWP system, that's what I was hoping for with BG3. But I'll certainly play BGD:OS3 it might even turn out to be an all time classic if we are lucky.
 

Sarafan

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Jan 14, 2020
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All this talk about a re-skin... I don't get it? It's the same (or at least a very similar) engine so of course, so the graphics are bound to look very similar. Is that what people are talking about? So does that mean Planescape: Torment was a re-skin of Baldur's Gate!? Or is it something else?
The problem is that Planescape Torment uses the same engine as Baldur's Gate and it looks almost completely different. So it's possible to use the same engine and provide a game that has different graphics. I don't know how much of the assets from D:OS2 were recycled in the BG3 presentation, but suspect there were quite a lot, especially when it comes for environment.

Speaking of which Steam says I spent 120 hours or something each in D:OS2 and D:OS both are good games. They don't have any of those easy mob fights because the time filler is inherent to the turn based system.
I must admit that the combat in both D:OS games is very demanding. Even if you play on normal difficulty you can have lots of problems. It seems that BG3 will go this way as well. Even Swen Vincke lost his first battle during the presentation. I just hope the game will be balanced properly.

One more thing regarding BG3. We don't know whether the game will include a world map of some sort. I'm afraid it may turn out to be very linear unfortunately.
 

Kaamos_Llama

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Jan 31, 2020
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The problem is that Planescape Torment uses the same engine as Baldur's Gate and it looks almost completely different. So it's possible to use the same engine and provide a game that has different graphics. I don't know how much of the assets from D:OS2 were recycled in the BG3 presentation, but suspect there were quite a lot, especially when it comes for environment.



I must admit that the combat in both D:OS games is very demanding. Even if you play on normal difficulty you can have lots of problems. It seems that BG3 will go this way as well. Even Swen Vincke lost his first battle during the presentation. I just hope the game will be balanced properly.

One more thing regarding BG3. We don't know whether the game will include a world map of some sort. I'm afraid it may turn out to be very linear unfortunately.
I feel we have to be fair and say its a first look at a pre-alpha, as far as environments go. I hope you're wrong about the world map!

I guess TT D&D is more about dungeon crawling? I think it was 2nd edition when I last played and that's what we did mostly back in the nevernever. I think theyve shown they will follow TT rather then the PC game series already.

I definitely agree that D:OS2 combat was challenging, I'm no elite gamer in any way. The final fight also took me a few tries on normal difficulty although I felt that once I'd found my feet after the first battle on the ship I didnt have too many troubles that I recall.

I played the first one so long ago I dont remember very much, put quite a lot of hours in but I never finished it, the story never grabbed me.
 
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Frindis

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@Kaamos_Llama @Sarafan From what I could see from the BG3 gameplay they did use a lot of assets from DOS2 - Combat/skill mechanics, movement, navigation, inventory & map areas very similar to Fort Joy and that is highly understandable as it seems they were trying to show off what the engine is capable of. The challenge for Larian Studios and I believe it to be a great challenge, is to mold the game more into BG universe while at the same time bringing in some of the awesome mechanics DOS2 are known for. If not, I am sure it would still get a lot of praise, but my guess that praise would come from the majority of people who have not played Balders Gate or Divinity: Original Sin series.
 
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Zloth

Community Contributor
Well, seems to me that things like rocks and the GUI are pretty much the definition of skin, so if those are staying the same, would this be more of a re-guts than a re-skin?

Combat and skill mechanics; that's another story. It's turn based so that, at least, is more D:OS than BG. I expect the skill and spell set to be pretty different, through.
 
Jan 14, 2020
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Gameplay mechanics in a combat ---> Excellent, turn based combat system (I like RTwP too) , D&D 5E, seems to be deep and complex enough to be fun.

Characters/Setting/Writing - Extremely Poor. Teenager material. Needs to be worked on.
 
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Frindis

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Characters/Setting/Writing - Extremely Poor. Teenager material. Needs to be worked.
The only game I can remember that had a slightly serious tone was Divine Divinity (90% off). Not played too much of Divinity II but the little I played also seemed pretty dark. So, at least they know how to. When it comes to DOS and DOS2 the main story was one of the things I never did like. It had no punch to it and I pretty much stopped caring about it midway in both games. Side quests were for the majority very dull and as you point out: Writing being teenager material.

Another thing I think they should work on is the journals you find scattered around. They are extremely short and often contain gibberish. It would be nice to see some more depth to them so that you can really dig into the lore and feel that the world is somehow connected. I will give them cred on the background stories/follow-up stories for the characters though, as I remember them as having at least some depth.
 
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Sarafan

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Combat and skill mechanics; that's another story. It's turn based so that, at least, is more D:OS than BG. I expect the skill and spell set to be pretty different, through.
Skill and spells will be based on D&D 5E, so they have to be different. The question is however will it be enough to distinguish this game decidedly from D:OS. Given the presented gameplay, I fear that it'll be very hard to do so...
 
Jan 14, 2020
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You say it like "teenager material" is a completely bad thing. Most people that played BG 1&2 did it as teenagers and kids. Not every RPG needs to be about the "metaphysics of whatever" like PoE or Torment (Planescape or Tides of Numenera). I found that the "overall" plot in D:OS 2 was not that great, but I think that's due to the focus on the origin story characters.

The story in BG 1 and 2 were also far from deep or original. It was the classic journey of a hero where you defeat the big bad etc. I think the strong point of BG 1 and 2 was that you had fleshed out party members and you could interact with them.
 
Jan 20, 2020
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I've never played BG before, although I did enjoy DOS2 very much. Is it worth playing the old BG games or should I just leave it and wait for BG3?
 

Sarafan

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Jan 14, 2020
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I've never played BG before, although I did enjoy DOS2 very much. Is it worth playing the old BG games or should I just leave it and wait for BG3?
If you have time, you should play the original games. These are considered classics not only for RPG players, but for players in overall. Keep in mind however that BG2 is a lot better than BG1 in almost every aspect. If you're short on time, you might consider playing only BG2 and its expansion pack. I also played BG2 before BG1 and had tons of fun. You should also remember that both BG games use real time with pause combat. So it'll be quite a different experience than D:OS2.
 

Zloth

Community Contributor
Skill and spells will be based on D&D 5E, so they have to be different. The question is however will it be enough to distinguish this game decidedly from D:OS. Given the presented gameplay, I fear that it'll be very hard to do so...
I'm not so sure it's possible to "decidedly" distinguish between the two - especially now that we know BG3 is turn based.

To me, the big differences between the two games would be:
  • BG is real-time-with-pause while D:OS is turn based.
  • D:OS had good co-op options that people really used. BG had co-op of some sort but I don't know if anybody really used it much.
  • BG had way more spells than D:OS.
  • BG had Minsc, the best companion NPC ever (IMHO). The rest of the NPCs were pretty average, though.
  • Larian is even more silly than BioWare was - Minsc and Biff the Understudy not withstanding.
  • D:OS has better music.
  • D:OS let you choose all companions' classes. With BG, you had no idea who would show up but whichever character matched your class probably wasn't going to get used much.
So, if they take their spells from whatever the latest D&D is and channel their silliness into one great NPC, then I think they are set. Being turn based and having better co-op actually matches D&D better. I certainly don't want them to make average music and the ability to pick your companions' classes really is a wonderful thing.

P.S. Oh jeez, I forgot a big one. Resting! In BG you go into a dungeon, fight through a few rooms, and take a nap for a few hours right there in the hallways so you could re-memorize your spells, heal up, and so on. I don't care if the solution is the Divinity teleport pyramids, shorter dungeons, or something else - just don't make me endure the silliness of pitching a tent in the middle of hostile territory!
 
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Jan 14, 2020
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Interesting.

I never really liked Minsk as a character and only used him when I did not need him as a character, but him as a class. Also kind of funny (he he) because Minsk is tone wise pretty close to some of the silly stuff in Original Sin (especially 1). But that also brings me to another good thing OS2 did. You could choose party members more or less by character and not by class, since you could choose between certain classes for characters.
 

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