Why do so few games have interesting loot in them?

[DXCHASE]

I think that loot is only interesting in a game if you find it that way. Maybe its just a personal view that these games have trash loot lately. I feel that theres supposed to be trash so you keep playing to find the not-so-trash loot.

As much as i hate single-target farming for uniques like in Diablo 4 for instance, when items im after DO drop, i still get excited and then wind up just helping others try to get these uniques too. This seasons been no different even if Blizzard, in there many anti-community moves, keep single-target-farming for new and old uniques, they at least added 1 more boss lol.

I also believe it depends on how long you've been playing for having a big affect on interest in loot too. I think of Destiny 2 here because the BIGGEST draw for me in that game at first was its loot, the weapons to unlock, the abilities attached to them, the sounds and obviously Destinys fantastic gunplay (its literally the only thing destiny every had right imo)

But, now, after about 5 years or so, its not a draw at all. Esp when a lot of the special ''loot'' that Destiny started bringing back in Destiny 2 were just re-hashed Destiny 1 weapons, which were still fine, but i already used them before.

So now, theres hundreds of unique guns and special weapons to collect that 98 percent of them sit unused because, by now, i already know which ones are the best for my playstyle. That makes loot boring.

As for in-game shops having WAYYYYY better looking loot than the games. I have a problem with that. Currently my biggest gripe about D4. They have these amazing armor sets that i would absolutely not mind single-target farming for, but instead blizz wants you to pay 40 bucks for portal skins and some of their game currency (not enough to buy a whole outfit, just some weapon bundle skins)

 

[ZedClampet]

WoW did this well back in vanilla by adding random world loot, loot from rare bosses/world bosses or raids, or as quest rewards. You had craftable items that different professions could do either through soloing or in a group. For example, a Warlock could craft a cloth robe that would be best in slot for a particular raid. I'd love to see more games (not just MMOs) being able to combine this.

Good point about Palworld as it makes it more fun going about finding the pets and breeding them trying to get a particular skill.

Morrowind had your typical fetch quest loot, but they did something I don't see much of nowadays and that is hiding unique weapons in spots that opens for more treasure hunting or having you get special items from a random encounter, but that for example would have one minus side of it that you had to get rid of for the item to be good.

An example of this is a random quest reward you get in Morrowind that is called the Boots of Blinding speed. It is boots that make you run insanely fast but it has a downside which is that you need to have magic resistance or you'll be blind while using them, making them kind of useless. This is the sort of stuff I loved in the game and it made it very fun to explore everything because you never knew what you could potentially find. This is the type of charm I miss with a lot of the loot nowadays in games, it just does not have that much personality.


Unfortunately, I think you are right about skins having an impact on it., but I think it is possible to use it for the better through for example a quest chain that leads you to a particular cool skin. Even the skin-infested Warzone had a quest chain some time ago where you had to do different tasks over some time to get your hold on pretty cool skins. You could also take on difficult tasks where if you died you would lose everything, but which added a nice high-risk reward.

So it is possible to do something good with skins and make them more interesting, but unfortunately for the most part, a lot of these skins are locked behind paywalls through either battle pass progressions or store variation and people throw money at them like crazy.

I do like it when you can transmog your items like finding a legendary weapon and putting that skin on another weapon bringing the visual memory with you.


The loot in vanilla Divinity Original Sin 2 was pretty lackluster to be honest. Sure you could find an upgrade, but it didn't have much umph through unique attacks or even looks. This did change with the Definite Edition, where you not only could change up a lot of gameplay like easier respec, gardening, and more start AP, but you would also have unique gear that had a quest chain you could follow and which could change up how your character would play. Like I got a unique set bonus that made my character fly and completely change looks into a birdlike type.


One of the reasons I stopped playing Lord of The Rings Online. I had a good time until around level 20 I think it was and then I got hit with the annoying problems with not enough bags for loot, not enough bank space for loot, locked quests, and so forth. The only thing I do like now with LOTRO is that you can join different types of events like spring, and autumn events, and through that get cool items or mounts for free.

I understand an old game like LOTRO or SWTOR having a store and wanting as much help as possible to still run the servers, but not when you have a new game that for example brings in an online store even in early access with a focus on not only skins but boosters and other items that brings an unfairness within the gaming community. Then it seems to me that having a store like this was already on the planning board and with a focus on destroying player experience for the benefit of profit.

Unfortunately, I also see some companies becoming more greedy with their MTX, even if it was not planned from the start. Jagex and their Runescape 3 is an example of that. The MTX (microtransaction) in that game has slowly become so abusive that it has completely changed up the game, which is also why more and more players are quitting. They could have implemented the MTX in a much fairer way for the consumer, but they have not, which tells me they want to keep on milking players until there is none left.

That's pretty interesting about Morrowind. Do you think you could make a system like that that was randomly generated, but using percentage chances for the very good stuff? And of course, only the good stuff would get a random debuff attached to it.

I only ask because I think that procedural generation is going to get bigger and bigger the better that it gets.

 

[Frindis]

Like

I think that loot is only interesting in a game if you find it that way. Maybe its just a personal view that these games have trash loot lately. I feel that theres supposed to be trash so you keep playing to find the not-so-trash loot.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I felt that in Diablo 3 when I was bashing on the blue rarity being bad and then I noticed hardcore players doing Grifts 150 with blue items because they found a way to make them work.

I also believe it depends on how long you've been playing for having a big affect on interest in loot too. I think of Destiny 2 here because the BIGGEST draw for me in that game at first was its loot, the weapons to unlock, the abilities attached to them, the sounds and obviously Destinys fantastic gunplay (its literally the only thing destiny every had right imo)

But, now, after about 5 years or so, its not a draw at all. Esp when a lot of the special ''loot'' that Destiny started bringing back in Destiny 2 were just re-hashed Destiny 1 weapons, which were still fine, but i already used them before.

So now, theres hundreds of unique guns and special weapons to collect that 98 percent of them sit unused because, by now, i already know which ones are the best for my playstyle. That makes loot boring.

That is an excellent point! I guess it is also one of the reasons I never got really deep in the Borderlands series. I could not find myself having to grind for tens and tens of hours trying to get perfect stats on a single item.

As for in-game shops having WAYYYYY better looking loot than the games. I have a problem with that. Currently my biggest gripe about D4. They have these amazing armor sets that i would absolutely not mind single-target farming for, but instead blizz wants you to pay 40 bucks for portal skins and some of their game currency (not enough to buy a whole outfit, just some weapon bundle skins)

Ahh, that sucks to hear. I thought they would be able to balance that out as they talked about before release. I remember a necromancer set you could get from playing and the one from the store both being pretty cool, as to not intensify paying into getting the "best". I guess I am not shocked to hear the opposite

 

[Frindis]

That's pretty interesting about Morrowind. Do you think you could make a system like that that was randomly generated, but using percentage chances for the very good stuff? And of course, only the good stuff would get a random debuff attached to it.

I only ask because I think that procedural generation is going to get bigger and bigger the better that it gets.

Absolutely, I do see a trend in this with the looter shooters and I did play one recently that had these types of debuffs but I forgot its name. It was a demo and I'm not sure why Steam did not show that as one of the recently played games!

Speaking of more crazy stuff I have experienced with items: In a game called Cuisine Royale (now renamed as Cursed: Foad or something shitty like that) had items like this: Bunny shoes - Made you jump real high. Golden Pan - Made you instantly kill people in melee. Some other items that made you run like hell, regenerate, or be able to camp outside the gas for some time. Some of the buffs were crazy, but it had charm!

So, if you had a game with kind of crazy weapons with so and so disadvantages also to them, just imagine how it could have been in a PVP match. A game like Speedrunners for example comes to mind but with a focus on what has been mentioned.

 

[Pifanjr]

That's pretty interesting about Morrowind. Do you think you could make a system like that that was randomly generated, but using percentage chances for the very good stuff? And of course, only the good stuff would get a random debuff attached to it.

I only ask because I think that procedural generation is going to get bigger and bigger the better that it gets.

I think the main problem is that with the Boots of Blinding Speed, you have an obvious joke the developers put into the game. It wouldn't be the same if you knew the item was randomly generated because it wouldn't be a joke, it would be a funny coincidence.

 

[ZedClampet]

I think the main problem is that with the Boots of Blinding Speed, you have an obvious joke the developers put into the game. It wouldn't be the same if you knew the item was randomly generated because it wouldn't be a joke, it would be a funny coincidence.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but in this thread, I was talking about the developers creating all the traits, and the proc-gen just picking what was put together and what went into each particular chest, so that if you played again you wouldn't know where to get something.

 

[Colif]

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I felt that in Diablo 3 when I was bashing on the blue rarity being bad and then I noticed hardcore players doing Grifts 150 with blue items because they found a way to make them work.

its all about the stats, not about the color. Could be nothing better had fallen to match the right combo.

When any weapon is really just a stat stick, who cares. Random stats and values means its hard to be excited by anything that falls. Diablo 4 combo of no inventory space (slight exaggeration) and meaningless legendary items led to ignoring all drops. Guess its one way to completely destroy the 3rd party weapon trade... except for certain uniques.

 

[Pifanjr]

I don't know if it makes a difference, but in this thread, I was talking about the developers creating all the traits, and the proc-gen just picking what was put together and what went into each particular chest, so that if you played again you wouldn't know where to get something.

The developers could of course add something like the Boots of Blinding Speed as a special item for the proc-gen to put into a chest, but a proc-gen that randomly matches traits and the name of an item can never intentionally make a joke item.

 

[Frindis]

its all about the stats, not about the color. Could be nothing better had fallen to match the right combo.

Yes and no, I guess. Because some of the blue items you would get would have a very good synergy with a particular skill set and that combination would make you able to defeat higher grifts.

 

[ZedClampet]

The developers could of course add something like the Boots of Blinding Speed as a special item for the proc-gen to put into a chest, but a proc-gen that randomly matches traits and the name of an item can never intentionally make a joke item.

Sorry, I wasn't talking about the Boots of Blinding Speed. I meant in general. If you want to do something specific with the loot, like the boots, you have to manually create that. But then it gets complicated because if a player gets those boots and thinks they were created with RNG, they might get irritated, while thinking they come from the developer makes them funny.

Of course, in over 40 years of gaming, I don't recall getting anything funny like this is from a chest, so this is a rare case. Honestly, if Bethesda made a bunch of joke items for chests, I'd probably get irritated and stop opening them..

 

[Colif]

generally in games where there are rng items and set items, the colors of the items will be different to denote that or there will be a label saying unique or crafted on one of them. Wow managed to do it years ago. Players could make items of same lvl as uniques and possibly they all got flavor text or specific stats. Was one reason why you took some trades to begin with, make your own armour weapons.

 

[Pifanjr]

Sorry, I wasn't talking about the Boots of Blinding Speed. I meant in general. If you want to do something specific with the loot, like the boots, you have to manually create that. But then it gets complicated because if a player gets those boots and thinks they were created with RNG, they might get irritated, while thinking they come from the developer makes them funny.

Of course, in over 40 years of gaming, I don't recall getting anything funny like this is from a chest, so this is a rare case. Honestly, if Bethesda made a bunch of joke items for chests, I'd probably get irritated and stop opening them..

In general, it's absolutely possible to make procgen loot. I'm pretty sure that's how loot in Sacred worked, considering the frankly ridiculous amount of random modifiers higher level pieces of gear could have.

 

[ZedClampet]

In general, it's absolutely possible to make procgen loot. I'm pretty sure that's how loot in Sacred worked, considering the frankly ridiculous amount of random modifiers higher level pieces of gear could have.

Just to try to clear my nonsense up, when I first asked about proc-gen, I was, in fact, specifically asking about Morrowind, but I'd never played it and didn't know what exactly I was asking. To this point, I still am not sure whether The Boots of Blinding Speed was a one-off for Morrowind, but other loot was good in its own way or what the heck we are even talking about hahaha. All I think I know is that some of the items had good and bad things at the same time. And I guess I didn't really mean could it be done at all, but rather could it be done in a way that made it as good as Morrowind's loot, whatever that means.

 

[Colif]

In general, it's absolutely possible to make procgen loot. I'm pretty sure that's how loot in Sacred worked, considering the frankly ridiculous amount of random modifiers higher level pieces of gear could have.

expecting me to remember a game from 2005... i mostly used sets and unique weapons in Sacred 2 and they had set stats but values changed. Every 20 levels or so you could find a new version of same sword/setpeice. I have characters full of set parts just at different levels. Same with swords.

lots of stats on an item reminds me of the truly insane results you could get upgrading gear in Torchlight 2, the only restriction to amount of times you try is gold. And finding the right character in game at right time to buff them. Finding at start of game really doesn't help. I think I seen weapons with up to 20 stats on them.

this is just a "normal" weapon

not sure about shield

who gave her a portal gun?

Can we get games with a sense of humour again?

 

[Frag Maniac]

I'm OK with being able to collect matching sets of gear, and there's often an added bonus when you have a complete set, which I like even more. However the trend to make it hard as hell to find all the pieces, and worse yet randomize their locations, just seems to be a ridiculous way to get players to spend WAY more time than they should have to.

I feel Ubisoft are largely responsible for popularizing this trend with games like The Division, then Ghost Recon, which they also turned into a tiered loot game. Using such tactics to pad the stats of how much time players are spending on their games is really lazy and petty self indulgence as a publisher. In today's fast paced world, time is a precious commodity.

 

[Pifanjr]

I'm OK with being able to collect matching sets of gear, and there's often an added bonus when you have a complete set, which I like even more. However the trend to make it hard as hell to find all the pieces, and worse yet randomize their locations, just seems to be a ridiculous way to get players to spend WAY more time than they should have to.

I feel Ubisoft are largely responsible for popularizing this trend with games like The Division, then Ghost Recon, which they also turned into a tiered loot game. Using such tactics to pad the stats of how much time players are spending on their games is really lazy and petty self indulgence as a publisher. In today's fast paced world, time is a precious commodity.

I think Diablo 2 already made you grind for sets? I'm pretty sure Sacred Gold did too.

 

[Frag Maniac]

I think Diablo 2 already made you grind for sets? I'm pretty sure Sacred Gold did too.

I didn't say they started the trend, I said they popularized it. Meaning they went out of their way to hype such games up. Loot grinding didn't really catch on big in 3D until The Division, if it hadn't they'd never had gotten away with turning even the tactical shooter franchise Ghost Recon into a tiered loot game. There would simply have been too much push back from the GR fanbase for it to succeed. Instead they got a lot of Division players jumping onboard, and the GR fanbase was all but a memory at that point.

The isometric style games don't really translate directly trend wise to 3D. Most people into 3D games don't even bother with games that are limited to a top down view. They aren't even really in the same category. Ubi were major players in influencing the trend of gear set grinding in 3D world games, which I still feel is the segment with the most players overall. Sure, there are a handful of isometric style games that have a huge following, but most games are made 3D for a reason, the style is familiar, so is popular.

 

[Pifanjr]

I didn't say they started the trend, I said they popularized it. Meaning they went out of their way to hype such games up. Loot grinding didn't really catch on big in 3D until The Division, if it hadn't they'd never had gotten away with turning even the tactical shooter franchise Ghost Recon into a tiered loot game. There would simply have been too much push back from the GR fanbase for it to succeed. Instead they got a lot of Division players jumping onboard, and the GR fanbase was all but a memory at that point.

The isometric style games don't really translate directly trend wise to 3D. Most people into 3D games don't even bother with games that are limited to a top down view. They aren't even really in the same category. Ubi were major players in influencing the trend of gear set grinding in 3D world games, which I still feel is the segment with the most players overall. Sure, there are a handful of isometric style games that have a huge following, but most games are made 3D for a reason, the style is familiar, so is popular.

Ah, I get what you mean, it's popularising adding the MMORPG grind to other genres.

 

[Colif]

I'm OK with being able to collect matching sets of gear, and there's often an added bonus when you have a complete set, which I like even more. However the trend to make it hard as hell to find all the pieces, and worse yet randomize their locations, just seems to be a ridiculous way to get players to spend WAY more time than they should have to.

Sacred 2 just had them as drops. Anything could drop a set item, not just bosses. I think... its been a while. But you only ever found set items for the class you are on. They weren't really common drops but play enough characters, and you start to get a collection.

My collection was from many characters, not just the one. I found one class I enjoyed and collected gear that would make their lives easier leveling up. (I would have done the same in Diablo 4 eventually but the way inventory is so nerfed, meant you couldn't really play more than one class for long before running out of either bank space or character slots. S2 didn't have character slots.... you could make as many as you like. I never got to play enough classes on D4 to see who I liked most. Got stuck on necro)

I could only really play the Seraphim as well, as she can use swords... I had lots of those. Other classes use things I never really saw a lot of.

I have 5 characters on lvl 2. Their entire purpose was to run to first town and empty my bank. I have more banks, I just don't feel like loading them all to look

not a normal weapon for a lvl 2 to have. He can't equip anything marked red..

shame gold wasn't shared between characters. Its main reason I had some items, to sell on new characters. The Blind Guardian rewards were one such... weapons in the shape of musical instruments

I still love the music in that game. After you complete the quest for Blind Guardian, the theme music at start of game swaps to this:

decides not to ask how many games have concerts in them as Fork Knife does live ones now... but its 14 years behind. It wasn't in the game from launch.

I get 296fps in that game. I wish I could take this pc back in time to when they had just released community patch as I don't know if base game supports 1440p. Steam didn't exist... um, I guess I need to buy game and see how much fun installing it on win 11 is... easier to make a new PC just for the purpose... time travel... must be a cheaper option.

 

[lilyjullet]

Loot in games has changed. Older games, such as Morrowind, featured a broad and surprising set of things, making exploring intriguing. Nowadays, many games provide standardized loot, with an emphasis on gradual enhancements. This trend is driven by a need for game balance, monetization techniques, and a preference for player growth over unique loot. While conventional excitement may have altered, there is a corresponding emphasis on visual customization. It's a mixed bag; some people regret the excitement of finding unexpected loot, while others like the ability to customize. Game makers are still trying to find the ideal balance.