September 2023 PCG Article Links and Discussion

[Kaamos_Llama]

Idunno about EA, it seems to vary a ton by genre. For instance, BG3 (and the D:OS games before it) had EA that only let people play the first act. Others, like the survival genre, seem to be letting them into the full game then adding on new features as they go. The first is more of an extended demo - you know you aren't at the end of the game. The survival genre seems more sandboxy, so the game might not really have an "end game." That difference could be big when the game shows up. For the first type, people will want to get in and see the rest of the game. For the second, they're just joining in to see new features. Less people playing means less "buzz" about the game.

What about books? Even the modern bathrooms-are-for-the-weak movie lengths still get done in an afternoon, while games go on for a month or more.

They'd have to work out what kind of Early Access would suit which type of game, or whether it suits at all I suppose. It probably works well for systems heavy games so they can play balance. I did think of Jedi Survivors PC release which went horribly though, if they would have even had 3 month of early access for the first part of the game maybe they could have optimized it for a much wider range of hardware.

Dont know really, just throwing it out there. I'm sure anyone working in QA is hoping they dont go there, and obviously I hope it doesnt cause anyone to lose their jobs, but I wouldnt be surprised if more companies go that way.

 

[ZedClampet]

Idunno about EA, it seems to vary a ton by genre. For instance, BG3 (and the D:OS games before it) had EA that only let people play the first act. Others, like the survival genre, seem to be letting them into the full game then adding on new features as they go. The first is more of an extended demo - you know you aren't at the end of the game. The survival genre seems more sandboxy, so the game might not really have an "end game." That difference could be big when the game shows up. For the first type, people will want to get in and see the rest of the game. For the second, they're just joining in to see new features. Less people playing means less "buzz" about the game.

What about books? Even the modern bathrooms-are-for-the-weak movie lengths still get done in an afternoon, while games go on for a month or more.

That "less people playing means less 'buzz' about the game" doesn't make sense because you have to compare it against no one playing the game if they don't do early access.

Also, I don't know actual numbers for lots of survival games because I just didn't pay that much attention, but the ones that I at least watched a little bit, The Forest and Ark Survival Evolved, both did great when they launched. Digging around, VentureBeat says that Ark sold 7 million copies while in early access, and the current average estimate of Steam sales is just over 20 million. So 7 million in EA and at least 13 million after. And that's just on Steam. I don't have figures for the consoles, but the Ark devs said they reached 40 million players (it was also on Game Pass and probably another 5 or 6 people played it on Google Stadia ).

I just don't see any downside, sales wise, to launching into early access.

 

[ZedClampet]

The Unity price change has impacted the game Hometopia before it even launched. Whether it should have or not is another question, but...

They were planning on making the game free-to-play and supported by DLC, including a massive one ($19.99) with over 1000 objects that was going to be released the same day as the game. They decided that free-to-play was too risky under the current plan of having to pay per install (tons of people who have little interest in the game will install it just because it's free), and so now they are including the DLC into the game and charging $19.99. Additionally, all future DLC will be added into the game for free during the early access period estimated at 3 years.

Most potential players are reacting positively, but, of course, there were a few people who were counting on getting a free game who are not too thrilled. Personally, I hope every free-to-play dev thinks the same thing and starts charging for their games and including the DLC for free. That would be awesome.

Based on my understanding of the latest iteration of the price change, Hometopia wouldn't have been moved to the new deal, but I guess Unity didn't change the plan for about a week, and Hometopia is launching in two days, so they had to make a decision quickly and stick to it.

 

[Brian Boru]

I hope every free-to-play dev thinks the same thing and starts charging for their games and including the DLC for free. That would be awesome

I think they would need a demo to make up for the huge loss in try-it-outs.

There's a certain similarity with some products we sell online, and periodic free 'sales' of the first one always generates a sales bump in later ones, no matter how many years it's been since release—but gradually less as time since release increases, of course.

As a consumer, I'd love what you suggest if there was a demo of the initial product. As a dev, I would charge first and make free later, probably after first major expansion or DLC. There is a psychological danger with Free forever, that it's seen as lower quality by consumers.

 

[Johnway]

Several articles raised my eyebrows and got me going and muttering in the peanut gallery:

there is talk of another dungeon BR about to step into the ring against dark and darker. Not exactly into this stuff, but it seems like its a race to the bottom, past the gutters and into the depths of scum for profit.

and in the game!

Watch out, Dark and Darker: Suddenly there's another dungeon extraction game hitting PC, Project Crawl

Another PvP fantasy extraction game is about to start alpha playtesting.

www.pcgamer.com

The other pun tastic article was starbreeze studios messing up Payday 3 launch that they were thinking about some sort of SP option. My question is why didn't they do that in the first place? What drove them to do a constantly online experience for playing solo? Syncing data? copy protection after dropping denuvo? I dunno, it seems like the maker of payday just wanted to set up a paywall. Pun intended.

That said, anyone played PD3? i did play PD2 but honestly i found it pretty humdrum and brain dead. Not in a l4d enjoyable way, more boring braindead blasting cops and waiting for stuff to be unlocked, sawed open etc. playing stealth missions with randoms is practically impossible so i always stuck with loud heists.

 

[ZedClampet]

Several articles raised my eyebrows and got me going and muttering in the peanut gallery:

there is talk of another dungeon BR about to step into the ring against dark and darker. Not exactly into this stuff, but it seems like its a race to the bottom, past the gutters and into the depths of scum for profit.

and in the game!

Watch out, Dark and Darker: Suddenly there's another dungeon extraction game hitting PC, Project Crawl

Another PvP fantasy extraction game is about to start alpha playtesting.

www.pcgamer.com

The other pun tastic article was starbreeze studios messing up Payday 3 launch that they were thinking about some sort of SP option. My question is why didn't they do that in the first place? What drove them to do a constantly online experience for playing solo? Syncing data? copy protection after dropping denuvo? I dunno, it seems like the maker of payday just wanted to set up a paywall. Pun intended.

That said, anyone played PD3? i did play PD2 but honestly i found it pretty humdrum and brain dead. Not in a l4d enjoyable way, more boring braindead blasting cops and waiting for stuff to be unlocked, sawed open etc. playing stealth missions with randoms is practically impossible so i always stuck with loud heists.

I played PD2. According to Steam, I have 5.1 hours on it, so I guess I didn't love it, but I do remember having a good time with it.

What inspired them to make private server players and solo players wait in the public server queue will probably always be a mystery. Hopefully they haven't completely screwed themselves over long-term because they need a strong PD3 to unscrew them from their financial problems.

 

[Brian Boru]

Posted in Strat thread, should be here too I guess?

I know we have at least one Black & White fan here, so for you:

The god game that flew too close to the sun

Looking back at the flawed but ambitious Black & White 2.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Zloth]

Horizon 2 has a page up on Steam. Expected release date 2024?? Ouch.

Horizon Forbidden West™ Complete Edition on Steam

Experience the epic Horizon Forbidden West™ in its entirety with bonus content and the Burning Shores expansion included. The Burning Shores add-on contains additional content for Aloy’s adventure, including new storylines, characters, and experiences in a stunning yet hazardous new area.

store.steampowered.com

 

[ZedClampet]

Horizon 2 has a page up on Steam. Expected release date 2024?? Ouch.

Horizon Forbidden West™ Complete Edition on Steam

Experience the epic Horizon Forbidden West™ in its entirety with bonus content and the Burning Shores expansion included. The Burning Shores add-on contains additional content for Aloy’s adventure, including new storylines, characters, and experiences in a stunning yet hazardous new area.

store.steampowered.com

That newish Valve policy that you can't estimate your release date except to put in a year is really awful.

 

[Pifanjr]

Cyberpunk 2077 figured out the secret ingredient to make talking fun, and I wish Starfield had copied it

Talking in Cyberpunk is a sandbox. Talking in Starfield is a prison.

www.pcgamer.com

Personally, I don't need to walk around to keep myself busy while NPCs are talking, I'm busy reading the subtitles and pressing the "skip" button. In fact, the first thing I did for The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk was mapping the skip button to something more accessible.

 

[ZedClampet]

Cyberpunk 2077 figured out the secret ingredient to make talking fun, and I wish Starfield had copied it

Talking in Cyberpunk is a sandbox. Talking in Starfield is a prison.

www.pcgamer.com

Personally, I don't need to walk around to keep myself busy while NPCs are talking, I'm busy reading the subtitles and pressing the "skip" button. In fact, the first thing I did for The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk was mapping the skip button to something more accessible.

I feel like we are kind of scraping the bottom of the "things that could be better in Starfield" barrel now.

Cities: Skylines 2 has been delayed until 2024, but only on consoles

The PC version is still on track for October 24, and the system requirements have been updated.

www.pcgamer.com

Posting this only for the crap your pants then realize you are okay headline

 

[Zloth]

Posting this only for the crap your pants then realize you are okay headline

I had that feeling with my Tesla a few days ago. The app popped up a message saying the battery was bad and needed to be replaced! Then it said it was the 'low voltage' battery, and I just wouldn't be able to use a few things like my USB stick with all my MP3s on it, and more stuff when the car was idle. Phew!!!

 

[ZedClampet]

Epic Games is laying off more than 800 people: 'We've been spending way more money than we earn'

The cuts come on the same day that Epic announced a Fortnite V-bucks price increase.

www.pcgamer.com

Takes a special kind of genius to run the Fortnite and Unreal Engine company into the ground. Hold it together, Tim. You've given me a ton of free stuff, and I'd like to keep it.

I'm exaggerating. They aren't in real financial trouble. Not yet anyway. The future depends on how neurotic Sweeney is about beating Valve, which isn't going to happen no matter how much money he throws away. I don't see why they can't just have a store, grow it slowly and be happy. Continuing to throw away billions of dollars on something that isn't even close to viable after all these years is just crazy.

There are so many games now, that no one blinks an eye over the 1 year exclusivity of a handful of games anymore. They just wait and buy the games on Steam or just move on to something else entirely. The only things he could put in his store that would change anything are Half Life 3 or GTA VI, and I have my doubts about that happening. They sure as heck don't have enough money anymore to make a deal for GTA VI. That would be so expensive that it would, actually, endanger the company.

 

[ZedClampet]

I had that feeling with my Tesla a few days ago. The app popped up a message saying the battery was bad and needed to be replaced! Then it said it was the 'low voltage' battery, and I just wouldn't be able to use a few things like my USB stick with all my MP3s on it, and more stuff when the car was idle. Phew!!!

Those batteries that run the car cost a few bucks XD Glad it wasn't those. Might as well just get a new car at that point.

 

[Brian Boru]

They aren't in real financial trouble

Yeah, that's the way it looks to me too—those severance packages are European-grade, which definitely wouldn't be happening if there were problems. It's just one more tech company laying off, being going on all year.

2-3 years ago the forecast was it would be 2027 before the Store was profitable. I haven't seen an update on that, which would obviously be different now they have 2-3 years' data to crunch.

The article suggests he's changing the big bet from EGS to the MetaVerse, did you get a hint of that? Hope he's not underestimating how long it's going to take for that to become mainstream, and how many competitors will be in the game.

 

[ZedClampet]

Yeah, that's the way it looks to me too—those severance packages are European-grade, which definitely wouldn't be happening if there were problems. It's just one more tech company laying off, being going on all year.

2-3 years ago the forecast was it would be 2027 before the Store was profitable. I haven't seen an update on that, which would obviously be different now they have 2-3 years' data to crunch.

The article suggests he's changing the big bet from EGS to the MetaVerse, did you get a hint of that? Hope he's not underestimating how long it's going to take for that to become mainstream, and how many competitors will be in the game.

As I was reading, I imagined he was avoiding talking about the store because that's actually where they lost all their money, and that's also the one spot where he's not willing to compromise due to his ego. The Fortnite/metaverse, instead, takes all the blame, and that's actually where they are making nearly all of their money. He's hoping to deflect criticism away from the vast sums they are sinking into a failed venture.

And as to that, I would be shocked to see any realistic model that shows the store ever being successful so long as they are spending like crazy on exclusives and free giveaways. Remember, they only keep about 1/3 what others stores keep on a sale.

At one point, Satisfactory was basically their only successful exclusive, and it just barely paid for itself. All the rest were/are failures. I couldn't even name you one exclusive they have going right now. They are wasting a fortune to secure games no one cares about, and are actually doubling down on this philosophy based on recent reports, specifically targeting more indie games. It's madness.

I can't see them giving away weekly games much longer, and that will be the end of it. The people who actually buy games will stop going to Epic altogether, and they'll be left with just the Fortnight crowd which, by and large, probably doesn't play anything but Fortnight.

 

[Pifanjr]

At one point, Satisfactory was basically their only successful exclusive, and it just barely paid for itself. All the rest were/are failures. I couldn't even name you one exclusive they have going right now. They are wasting a fortune to secure games no one cares about, and are actually doubling down on this philosophy based on recent reports, specifically targeting more indie games. It's madness.

I can't see them giving away weekly games much longer, and that will be the end of it. The people who actually buy games will stop going to Epic altogether, and they'll be left with just the Fortnight crowd which, by and large, probably doesn't play anything but Fortnight.

Some of the bigger upcoming exclusives are The Lord of the Rings: Return to Moria, Alan Wake 2, Sins of a Solar Empire 2 and The Wolf Among Us 2. Assassin's Creed: Mirage sorta counts because it isn't releasing on Steam, but it is on Ubisoft Connect.

I suspect the main problem is that their store/app is just vastly inferior to Steam. I think they've managed to get most consumers at least aware of the Epic store, but they can't convince them to use it instead of Steam.

 

[ZedClampet]

Some of the bigger upcoming exclusives are The Lord of the Rings: Return to Moria, Alan Wake 2, Sins of a Solar Empire 2 and The Wolf Among Us 2. Assassin's Creed: Mirage sorta counts because it isn't releasing on Steam, but it is on Ubisoft Connect.

I suspect the main problem is that their store/app is just vastly inferior to Steam. I think they've managed to get most consumers at least aware of the Epic store, but they can't convince them to use it instead of Steam.

That's probably the best group of exclusives they've ever had, but I doubt any of those exclusives makes its money back, and I don't count Ubisoft since the games probably do better in Ubisoft's store.

The main problems they face are the exclusives themselves, which cause gamers not to like them. This forum being a huge exception. For a good while, they were probably the most hated game company out there. Also, almost every PC gamer was already well established with Steam, and people simply don't want to change. Yes, their launcher is horrid, but that's never stopped me from buying there. The Xbox launcher, up until very recently, was even worse, but that didn't stop Game Pass from being successful.

I genuinely believe they sealed their fate when they decided to go after exclusives. They are still viewed negatively by most PC gamers despite all the wonderful freebies. If they would just admit that was a mistake and stop doing it, their sales would probably increase. But they were never going to compete with Valve. Never. Valve is too entrenched. This is not like other, traditional retail where competitors can just sweep in and take large swaths of market share. People's entire gaming history, including the games themselves, are on Steam. Epic can't overcome that.

 

[ZedClampet]

Larian's shared the most-played multiclasses in Baldur's Gate 3—and one of D&D's favourites is somehow second-to-last

Sorcadin? Sorcadon't.

www.pcgamer.com

The writer is puzzled by the cleric/paladin combo as their stats don't work well together (unless you get a great roll), but looking at the sales numbers for the game, there are probably a lot of people getting into this sort of game for the first time. If you just look at cleric/paladin on the surface level, you might think more healing spells and a better fighting cleric and not really care if the abilities line up. To the uninitiated like myself, that means your cleric is even better at all the reasons you made a cleric to begin with. Who cares if it isn't the most optimal multi-class you can have?

I'd be interested to hear what others who know more about the D&D rules and everything have to say, like @Pifanjr

 

[Pifanjr]

Larian's shared the most-played multiclasses in Baldur's Gate 3—and one of D&D's favourites is somehow second-to-last

Sorcadin? Sorcadon't.

www.pcgamer.com

The writer is puzzled by the cleric/paladin combo as their stats don't work well together (unless you get a great roll), but looking at the sales numbers for the game, there are probably a lot of people getting into this sort of game for the first time. If you just look at cleric/paladin on the surface level, you might think more healing spells and a better fighting cleric and not really care if the abilities line up. To the uninitiated like myself, that means your cleric is even better at all the reasons you made a cleric to begin with. Who cares if it isn't the most optimal multi-class you can have?

I'd be interested to hear what others who know more about the D&D rules and everything have to say, like @Pifanjr

I don't have a lot of experience with multiclassing, but the author is right in that the ability requirements don't mix well. A Paladin already needs high charisma for their class features plus decent strength, constitution and a not too terrible dexterity. Combining it with a class that depends on Wisdom for their class features doesn't make much sense and I don't think Cleric class features are particularly interesting for Paladins.

The other way around makes a bit more sense. (War) Clerics can take a couple of levels in Paladin to get access to Smite attacks, which aren't dependent on charisma.

It's possible that the combo works better in Baldur's Gate 3 because it gives out far more magic items than you'd typically get in a tabletop game. Gauntlets of Hill Giant Strength for example instantly raise strength to 23, letting you focus on raising other ability scores.

 

[Brian Boru]

I couldn't even name you one exclusive they have going right now

GG says 77, but I didn't check list:

Epic Games Store exclusive games - list of Epic only titles

Some games on PC are exclusive to just the Epic Games Store. GG.deals will help you find the best offers anyway! Click here to see the best deals.

gg.deals

can't convince them to use it instead of Steam

They don't need instead, just the 'as well as' which works for GOG, Ubi, EA and all the indie retailers. None of these are there mainly for the current market, but for the probably far larger market of the 30s. If Steam doesn't evolve towards the Metaverse, then they become vulnerable.

probably the most hated game company out there

Curious what you base this on? I don't have time now to dive in, but the 2 lists I find on a quickie are:

EA
Activision
Ubisoft
Infinity Ward
Bethesda
…
1. Electronic Arts
2. Ubisoft
3. Activision
4. Konami
5. Bethesda
6. Microsoft
7. Epic Games
8. Warner Bros.
9. Blizzard
10. Atari

People's entire gaming history, including the games themselves, are on Steam

Some people. Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo and mobile would like a quick chat

To put it another way: Steam owns some of the ¼ share which PC has:

Point being, Steam is in no way some gaming behemoth or monopoly, it only looks that way to communities which use it a lot. There's still huge evolution in the space before it matures into a settled marketplace, and it's slices of this which companies with deep pockets are jockeying for.

 

[Zloth]

There are so many games now, that no one blinks an eye over the 1 year exclusivity of a handful of games anymore.

Wait, what? I blink. Hard. Even though I rarely buy games less than a year old anyway. I don't touch the Epic store because of that.

Making a divine oath doesn't have a lot to do with the fact your great grandpapa got lucky with a dragon.

That game me a good laugh! Grandpa, quit gawking at that dragon!! She'll just break your heart - and all your ribs, too!

I tend not to multiclass much. I've got 4 people in my party, that's 4 classes covered. It should be enough. It would make more sense if I was playing lone wolf style.

 

[Pifanjr]

They don't need instead, just the 'as well as' which works for GOG, Ubi, EA and all the indie retailers. None of these are there mainly for the current market, but for the probably far larger market of the 30s. If Steam doesn't evolve towards the Metaverse, then they become vulnerable.

I tried finding statistics on the market shares of the various distribution platforms for PC games, but I couldn't really find anything particularly useful. It does seem like Epic is at least doing as well as GOG, but in 2021 Epic was aiming for 35-50% market share by 2024 and I don't see that happening.

 

[ZedClampet]

GG says 77, but I didn't check list:

Epic Games Store exclusive games - list of Epic only titles

Some games on PC are exclusive to just the Epic Games Store. GG.deals will help you find the best offers anyway! Click here to see the best deals.

gg.deals

They don't need instead, just the 'as well as' which works for GOG, Ubi, EA and all the indie retailers. None of these are there mainly for the current market, but for the probably far larger market of the 30s. If Steam doesn't evolve towards the Metaverse, then they become vulnerable.



Curious what you base this on? I don't have time now to dive in, but the 2 lists I find on a quickie are:

EA
Activision
Ubisoft
Infinity Ward
Bethesda
…
1. Electronic Arts
2. Ubisoft
3. Activision
4. Konami
5. Bethesda
6. Microsoft
7. Epic Games
8. Warner Bros.
9. Blizzard
10. Atari



Some people. Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo and mobile would like a quick chat

To put it another way: Steam owns some of the ¼ share which PC has:

Point being, Steam is in no way some gaming behemoth or monopoly, it only looks that way to communities which use it a lot. There's still huge evolution in the space before it matures into a settled marketplace, and it's slices of this which companies with deep pockets are jockeying for.

It was probably my poor writing, but since you misunderstood that I was talking about Steam, Epic and PC gaming, I'm not going to bother responding line for line. I never mentioned console or mobile, so I'm not sure why you brought them up, but I probably wasn't specific enough. They are completely irrelevant to what I was saying.

And I was careless (as usual) about the most hated companies. I should have said "one of the most hated". It doesn't bother me that it doesn't show up on your lists, wherever you got them. Based on the rest of your stuff, I would be shocked to discover that only PC gamers were surveyed, so the lists really wouldn't apply here. Why would a Playstation or mobile gamer dislike Epic? Also, as I've said repeatedly, most people have no idea how to conduct surveys, and I trust my own experiences over anyone else's data until they can show me the data and how it was collected. Many of the surveys promoted online are just utter nonsense.

As to the metaverse, it is a failed idea until someone comes up with a concrete plan that the average person finds appealing. There likely won't be a successful metaverse for many years (and possibly never), even if Tim Sweeney claims to have one. There's no rush for Steam. In fact, they don't ever have to create a metaverse. If they are interested, the best course of action for a digital store would probably be to open up inside other people's metaverses . Why would Amazon create a metaverse when they can set up in ALL the metaverses? Does your bank need to create a metaverse to keep you as a customer?

@Pifanjr I would hope that Epic is doing as well as GoG, which was losing money and being downsized the last I heard. That's a very low bar.

 

[Brian Boru]

in 2021 Epic was aiming for 35-50% market share by 2024 and I don't see that happening

Really? I didn't see that, and I completely agree with you as far as PC games go—maybe a profitable 15% in 2026 +/- 1 is feasible, and grow steadily from there.