Science Fiction; books, tv, films and games.

[WoodenSaucer]

I don't think that sex is often shown in films or tv until recently, unless it was a film exploring that like Fellini's Casanova.
But attractive female and male characters being sexualised has been one of the main promotional hooks used by creators and directors for decades.
Also remember sex is instrumental to life, so omitting reference to it seems prudish.

Which sort of programmes or films are you thinking of?

Yeah, I know it's not necessarily a new thing. But one thing I've noticed lately is that if you have Netflix or Hulu, or any streaming service, really, almost every new show they put on there is TV-MA. I know what I'm saying sounds prudish, and that's fine. I don't mean things shouldn't ever be explored. I'm just saying that I'm seeing all the time that they're shoehorning those things into places where they don't need to be.

That's just my opinion. You, or anyone else, have the right to having a different opinion than mine. I just wish there was more entertainment out there that could focus on other parts of normal life. Would be nice if more new content wasn't rated for older people, other than the cheesy stuff that is only for kids. There are still families out there who want to be able to be entertained together.

 

[ipman]

Yeah, I know it's not necessarily a new thing. But one thing I've noticed lately is that if you have Netflix or Hulu, or any streaming service, really, almost every new show they put on there is TV-MA. I know what I'm saying sounds prudish, and that's fine. I don't mean things shouldn't ever be explored. I'm just saying that I'm seeing all the time that they're shoehorning those things into places where they don't need to be.

That's just my opinion. You, or anyone else, have the right to having a different opinion than mine. I just wish there was more entertainment out there that could focus on other parts of normal life. Would be nice if more new content wasn't rated for older people, other than the cheesy stuff that is only for kids. There are still families out there who want to be able to be entertained together.

I don't watch tv but I am aware that many programmes are being sexed up, even historical dramas.
Maybe it's because internet porn has had an impact and changed people's attitudes, I don't know.
I've always thought that Britain was one of the most prudish countries, while the rest of Europe and the US were more open minded about sex and sexual content.

I just read an article about censorship in the US and it does chart a changing of what was censored over the years and it seems to have changed to appeal to changing target audiences and competition for those audiences after cable tv became popular in the 1980-90's. 'most Americans, because of cherished First Amendment rights, are extremely sensitive to any forms of censorship'. Plus the ratings system gives viewers a choice.

British Sci Fi often had good ideas but usually lacked enough funding for costumes, sets and production, but they have a quirky appeal. This is Blake's 7 with the villian Servalan, a sexy sociopath(often the result of being sexually repressed).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4d9IQdSXcI&ab_channel=SpaceCommand

 

[ipman]

I think the film Elysium brings together many aspects of Sci Fi. It shows two distinct worlds.

Elysium a high tech city orbiting Earth where the wealthy live their lives; free from poverty, war, sickness and crime, with robot servants(based on a proposed NASA design Stanford Torus).

And Earth in the year 2154, overpopulated, limited food and resources, ravaged by war and heavily policed using military robots, a classic dystopia.

It also looks at another interesting development, human enhancement through tech. I'm sure some remember the Bionic Man, and Robocop, Iron Man, well in this film Matt Damon's character Max is fitted with an exoskeleton to help him in his quest to reach Elysium.

Of course some augmentation is already available like exoskeletons(Sarcos Guardian) and for military use, Hololens, bionic limbs, bionic eyes, artificial organs and organ parts like mechanical heart valves. Future possibilities; Neuralink would allow for a brain to computer interface, and many more.

Gamers are used to enhancing their characters abilities as seen in Cyberpunk 2077 with a vast array of cyberware available. Welcome to the future.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIBtePb-dGY&ab_channel=SonyPicturesEntertainment

 

[ipman]

Something else Sc Fi can do with films like Elysium is make us reflect on current social issues on Earth. I'm sure which ever country you live in you will know of places like Elysium; exclusive, maybe gated with private security and little crime, private healthcare, private schools, servants, etc.

And Elysium's writer/director Neill Blomkamp also used the film District 9 to reflect upon the recent day dystopia of the townships in his hometown of Johannesburg.

I think another image from Sci Fi that is memorable is the Alien bursting from Kane's chest(and probably did for aliens what Jaws did for sharks).

And it's a very understandable human fear; parasites that incubate inside us, live inside us or replicate inside us(coronavirus).

In District 9 Wikus is contaminated by an Alien spray and starts to mutate into an alien. In Species, Earth's scientists(just like in reality) send out information about Earth and it's cultures + our DNA structure and an Alien species responds by sending alien DNA structures and how to splice it with humans.

Many Star Trek characters were the result of human and alien parents combining their DNA and new hybrid species were created.

 

[Zloth]

Many Star Trek characters were the result of human and alien parents combining their DNA and new hybrid species were created.

Ugh. Star Trek aliens double-nug-chaug! Give a person a wrinkly nose and "poof!" - it's an alien! Still two arms, two legs, two sexes, only one of which puts a lot of red coloring on their lips. They could certainly use it to good effect making social commentary, but it still drives me batty.

 

[ipman]

Ugh. Star Trek aliens double-nug-chaug! Give a person a wrinkly nose and "poof!" - it's an alien! Still two arms, two legs, two sexes, only one of which puts a lot of red coloring on their lips. They could certainly use it to good effect making social commentary, but it still drives me batty.

I think Spock was a much loved character from two alien species, but I take your point, their message wasn't always subtly portrayed.

But the episode which aired in 1969 and came after a year of race riots in America, could equally be applied to polarised conflicts especially during the Cold War.

As Kirk says 'we live in peace with full exercise of individual rights. The need to resort to violence and force has long since past and it will not be tolerated aboard this ship'.

And Spock, 'fascinating two irrevocably hostile humanoids'.

Kirk(to crew), 'that's enough for today, those two are beginning to effect you'.(it still has resonance)

I imagine Star Trek's target audience was youngsters.

Let that be your last battlefield-Star Trek.

 

[Zloth]

As Kirk says 'we live in peace with full exercise of individual rights. The need to resort to violence and force has long since past and it will not be tolerated aboard this ship'.

Yeah, you can tell by the way so many of them walk around with phasers.

They did have something in Star Trek that had far-reaching implications: the replicators. There wasn't any need for money in the future because, whatever you wanted, you just told the replicator to make it and there it was. Make sure everybody has one of those, and nobody is going to want for anything as long as you can keep them powered. Food? There it is. Big viewer screen? The replicator is only so big, so you might have to do that in parts and assemble it yourself, but it shouldn't be too bad. A copy of Final Fantasy CXII? No problem, the developers no longer need money either, so they didn't bother to copyright it. Replicator broken down? Ask your neighbor to replicate a new one.

You only see it in the show sometimes, though. I don't know if some of the writers just didn't understand the implications, if they didn't want to deal with the implications because they wanted to talk about the treatment of the poor, or if they just thought it would be too confusing for the audience.

 

[ipman]

Yeah, you can tell by the way so many of them walk around with phasers.

They did have something in Star Trek that had far-reaching implications: the replicators. There wasn't any need for money in the future because, whatever you wanted, you just told the replicator to make it and there it was. Make sure everybody has one of those, and nobody is going to want for anything as long as you can keep them powered. Food? There it is. Big viewer screen? The replicator is only so big, so you might have to do that in parts and assemble it yourself, but it shouldn't be too bad. A copy of Final Fantasy CXII? No problem, the developers no longer need money either, so they didn't bother to copyright it. Replicator broken down? Ask your neighbor to replicate a new one.

You only see it in the show sometimes, though. I don't know if some of the writers just didn't understand the implications, if they didn't want to deal with the implications because they wanted to talk about the treatment of the poor, or if they just thought it would be too confusing for the audience.

Well like I say it was aimed at youngsters, and it's easy to be cynical in retrospect about a tv series that aired 50 years ago. There was even a story around at one time that it was funded by the US military so that the US public would tolerate their taxes being spent on a space race against Russia.

And is certainly true that NASA, Smithsonian Institute and the Aerospace industry were heavily involved in providing technical advice and support and worked to make sure the series would have a three season run.

Harvey Lynn(RAND) consulted and came up with the 'phaser' and 'tractor beam' ideas.

I think it is true that there was a reciprocal relationship between scientists and designers and the show. Communicators did look like flip phones, and who knows how many other ideas may become a reality.

Plus so much more colaboration from US institutes, from

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/4240/1

Star Trek tv series was aimed at 14-21 year olds, if you want something more adult in themes there are many like from Russian cinema at a similar time; Tarkovsky's Solaris.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBYJH6UAAfw&ab_channel=AustinFilmSociety

 

[Zloth]

Lem wrote the book Solaris. Now THAT had an excellent alien! Even at the end, you really didn't have a clue what that thing was thinking.

P.S. I think "Solaris" is the most common planet name (outside of our own solar system) used in Science Fiction.

 

[ipman]

Lem wrote the book Solaris. Now THAT had an excellent alien! Even at the end, you really didn't have a clue what that thing was thinking.

P.S. I think "Solaris" is the most common planet name (outside of our own solar system) used in Science Fiction.

The red flashing light on top of my PC just went off again. I only saw the film. What sort of Alien was it?

I think with Star Trek(here it was considered a children and family viewing programme and shown at 6pm and several episodes were censored), it was shown later in the US. But Star Trek was just an introduction to many of us and due to the limited money and lack of tech at the time, most aliens were humans dressed up.

I've been doing some research into how AI humanoids are depicted tonight. I'm wondering if they are the next major evolutionary leap. (still formulating)

I was wondering if anyone plays Sci Fi games and what they think of them?

 

[Brian Boru]

I think "Solaris" is the most common planet name (outside of our own solar system) used in Science Fiction.

Sounds right—and the most common lifeform is NAWKI

research into how AI humanoids are depicted

Are you aware of the several YT 'influencers'—outfluencers, exfluencers?—which are AI? Been operating for some years.

wondering if anyone plays Sci Fi games

Does "anyone" mean the AIs, aliens, or our members? And yes, it is still possible to distinguish between the latter and the others

 

[Zloth]

The red flashing light on top of my PC just went off again. I only saw the film. What sort of Alien was it?

I've never seen the movie, so I'm not sure how much of the book got into what was done.

Spoiler: Solaris spoilers

The alien is the entire ocean of the planet. You can see it doing some of its giant whirlpool things in the trailer.

The story takes place on a research facility that's studying the strange planet. Soon after each researcher shows up, somebody else shows up as well - somebody very important to the new person. For the main character, it's his wife, who died about 10 years back. A lot of the book deals with his interactions with her and also delves into the philosophical question of just how close to human do these simulacrums have to be before you have to treat them like humans. (A question SF has done to death since then, but this was written way back in 1961.)

They don't figure out much about the alien ocean. Attempts at communication don't work out. It's VERY hard to communicate with an entity that's so completely different. If the thing can see at all, it's going to be a very different sort of sight, and the same would go for the other senses as well. The simulacrums were likely the ocean's way of trying to understand the researchers.

Honestly, while the book had a lot of neat ideas, I found it kinda dull. I really didn't care about this guy dealing with his feelings about his dead wife and, as I did not read it in the 60's, I've seen the 'how close to human is close enough for equal rights' far too many times already.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I think another image from Sci Fi that is memorable is the Alien bursting from Kane's chest(and probably did for aliens what Jaws did for sharks).

Some might say that Spaceballs did it better, though...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVZUVeMtYXc

 

[ipman]

I've never seen the movie, so I'm not sure how much of the book got into what was done.

Spoiler: Solaris spoilers

The alien is the entire ocean of the planet. You can see it doing some of its giant whirlpool things in the trailer.

The story takes place on a research facility that's studying the strange planet. Soon after each researcher shows up, somebody else shows up as well - somebody very important to the new person. For the main character, it's his wife, who died about 10 years back. A lot of the book deals with his interactions with her and also delves into the philosophical question of just how close to human do these simulacrums have to be before you have to treat them like humans. (A question SF has done to death since then, but this was written way back in 1961.)

They don't figure out much about the alien ocean. Attempts at communication don't work out. It's VERY hard to communicate with an entity that's so completely different. If the thing can see at all, it's going to be a very different sort of sight, and the same would go for the other senses as well. The simulacrums were likely the ocean's way of trying to understand the researchers.

Honestly, while the book had a lot of neat ideas, I found it kinda dull. I really didn't care about this guy dealing with his feelings about his dead wife and, as I did not read it in the 60's, I've seen the 'how close to human is close enough for equal rights' far too many times already.

It's been a while since I saw it but I saw it as partly about the psychological effects of space travel and the powerful effects that some planets might generate and that's triggered when they tried to scan the planet.

I think the film Sunshine also explored such issues.

I suppose you could read it in different ways, maybe the planet as an entity was using the cosmonauts own memories to interact with them and that does lead (like you say) to some philisophical questions about human life, simulcrums, and also about memories and the nature of death. Tarkovsky also brings a sort of poetic visual artistry to his films.

It also reminds me of Melancholia.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCUdy1nUqrg&ab_channel=MagnoliaPictures%26MagnetReleasing

 

[ipman]

Sci Fi films can open up debates about the future, the future of humanity and the future of AI and AI humanoids.

This has been a running theme through Ridley Scott's films; Alien, Blade Runner and Prometheus.
And of course the main qustions are; will AI humanoids be capable of free thinking, will they be able to experience emotions, will they develop a form of consciousness; but also will they surpass humans and become a threat??

So in Blade Runner(which popularised the Cyberpunk genre), Deckard who was considered the most lethal Blade Runner is contracted to kill four replicants that have returned to Earth and have no qualms about killing humans.

But Roy Batty proves superior in strength and intellect, and Deckard only survives the encounter because Roy saves him(showing his humanity), and has an inbuilt 'genetic' flaw.

In Prometheus, David 8 is shown as the first living android capable of passing the Turing test and the Chinese Room test. He imitates T. E. Lawrence(a man caught between two cultures) but decides humans are inferior and infects Hollaway with an alien genotoxin.

David 8 imitates T. E Lawrence

In Ex Machina; Caleb is given the task of deciding if Ava is capable of free thinking and consciousness. Ava forms a relationship with Caleb and manipulates him into helping her escape, showing what she is capable of.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9XuNiaoFjE&ab_channel=AdamClarkeCinema

 

[ipman]

Something I'm finding fascinating is tracing the lineage back fom; games to films(films incorprating music and special compositions just like games), then back to books that inspired as well as short stories in magazines. (It's like being a cultural detective or private dick[Deckard referencing films of the 1940's] depending on your perspective).

So Cyberpunk seems to originate in a Brit magazine New Worlds exploring human life in high tech dystopias, run by large tech based corpoations where rebels/punks use hacking/cyber attacks and other rebellious means to fight back.

Simultaneously Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? explored similar issues but included AI humanoids with implanted memories. The work of William Gibson and J. G. Ballard among others.

Films include; Blade Runner, Ghost in the Shell, The Matrix, Minority Report, Ready Player One, Johnny Mnemonic, A Scanner Darkly, among others.

Games include; Dues Ex, Gamedec, Detriot:Become Human, Mirror's Edge, and of course Cyberpunk 2077, among others.

 

[Brian Boru]

Was this the thread where I mentioned cart & horse?

Interesting that in my relatively brief and incomplete wanderings thru the classics of previous millennia, I found very little scifi or cyberpunk or similar. Could it be that scifi needed sci before it could tack on the fi?

Fantasy on the other hand seems to have been in full flow probably since hominins developed abstract thought. I haven't heard of a remote tribe discovery that didn't include a rich tapestry of gods and spirits.

I wonder was there post-apocalyptic back in the Classical era? I don't recall, but there sure were plenty of vengeful gods and demons in the cultures—so seems likely there must've been post-apocalyptic myths around.

 

[ipman]

Was this the thread where I mentioned cart & horse?

Interesting that in my relatively brief and incomplete wanderings thru the classics of previous millennia, I found very little scifi or cyberpunk or similar. Could it be that scifi needed sci before it could tack on the fi?

Fantasy on the other hand seems to have been in full flow probably since hominins developed abstract thought. I haven't heard of a remote tribe discovery that didn't include a rich tapestry of gods and spirits.

I wonder was there post-apocalyptic back in the Classical era? I don't recall, but there sure were plenty of vengeful gods and demons in the cultures—so seems likely there must've been post-apocalyptic myths around.

I think the problem with some commonly used metaphors, idioms and expressions is they limit free thinking.

I think fantasy literature, films and games are distinct to Sci Fi in both content and the way they are conceived. So fantasy tends to look back to myths and folklore and give elements of those a modern spin.

Sci Fi takes what is scientific fact at a certain time and tries to project that, extrapolate it to how the world might be at a certain time in the future.

William Gibson is credited with creating the term 'cyberpunk' in his short story Burning Chrome(1982). Two hackers use a Russian program to penertrate corporate security systems.

And many modern cities are coming to look like those depicted in Blade Runner; large neon advertising screens, projected 3D holograms, over crowded streets teeming with multi nationals.
Gangs control prostitution and drugs sales within their territories while behind the scenes hackers attempt to penertrate corporations and infrastructure. 'High tech and low life'.

Hong Kong's cyberpunk aesthetic.

 

[ipman]

I heard that Rihanna was performing at the Super bowl.
In Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets she played an alien called Bubble who could shape shift at will. Valerian has to infiltrate an enemy alien camp so he asks Bubble to wrap herself around him to look like one of the alien enemies. Tough life!(+Dane Dehaan got to flirt with the glorious Cara Delevingne).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvoa-t15c4o&ab_channel=JavedAhmedAnsari

 

[ipman]

Sci Fi can also look at ideas that have theological/philosophical consequences for humans.

The Garden of Eden is a story which shows humans that they once had paradise on Earth but have lost it with the knowledge of sin; greed, envy, lust, etc, and general inhumanity leading to the present dystopia.

Thomas Hobbes had opposing views to J.J Rousseau who believed that humans should live in a natural environment where their basic desires for food and shelter were met. Rousseau thought this was possible in modern societies if all perspectives are considered, rather than those of the few 'elite' members.

You can see examples of humans living in a natural state in many Sci Fi series, games like HZD and films like Avatar and Valerian.

Sometimes the two states are contrasted, sometimes humans are shown as destroyers of paradise.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFUJbkVZVa4&ab_channel=happymovies

 

[ipman]

This is an interesting essay and video from The Like Stories of Old (YT channel)> Why Apocalypse Stories feel different Now.

The theme of living and surviving in a post Apocalypse world features in many games, tv series and films.
'they take on new forms based on our collective fears' and the essay shows the progression in those themes which 'reflect what we value here and now'.

The main focus is the Green post-Apocalypse and the Humanity post-Apocalypse, in tv series like; The Last of Us, Station Eleven and The Leftovers and compares those to many other visions of a post-Apocalypse world.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rvYYD9mlac&ab_channel=LikeStoriesofOld

 

[Zloth]

Wheel of Time is back. The show sill just sort of tentatively follows the books.

There was a real jump from the last episode of the first season to the first episode of the second. Nothing big happened, just folks moving from one place to another, doing things that make perfect sense, but it was jarring to have everyone in different places. I think I could have done with a good old Star Wars style scroll, saying who went where after the events at the end of the last season.

I'm still enjoying the show plenty because I'm still thrilled when anything from the books makes it into the show. (OMG the arch?! I need to get hydrated before the next episode.)

 

[Swoly]

I think Star Wars was one of the first I became obsessed with. Though I'm not sure how technologically inspirational it has been.

I think society will probably ignore many film warnings about robots and AI. But I have no idea where those industries will lead. I think it's going to be exciting and possibly worrying.

Well many many people have been inspired by Star Wars and tried to recreate lightsabers in real life and some of them like the youtuber known as the "Hacksmith" have nearly achieved it. what he shows in his channel is amazing.

Luckily nobody has lost a hand