Question New System "Hiccups"?

[Vailin8]

Hey Everyone,

Problems
So I just finished a [mostly] new build ~1 month ago. My first solo build after a buddy helped my build my first system in 2010! At first it was fine, but suddenly for the last 2 weeks I keep running into problems. These include:

1. Used to turn on / post near instantly(see hard drive, I want to say 5 sec before posting?) but now "hangs" a while before posting with "VGA" LED debug light lit on the motherboard. The system will sometimes post after 1-5 min, other days I've let it sit for up to 10 min before I just turn it off and call it quits for the day
2. When I get into Windows, I'm unable to see any wifi networks. There are enough people living around me that I normally expect to see 10+ networks in range. Sometimes a restart fixes this, but it's becoming an issue almost every time I start up the computer
3. Once the system is on and running in windows I CONSTANTLY get "hiccups" where the system will hang for several seconds. These "hickups" are always recoverable, but they are CONSTANT. Examples:
   1. Windows desktop: just moving the mouse around or trying to open task manager could cause the computer to freeze / hang for 5-10 sec.
   2. Witcher 3: Launched The Witcher 3 as a test case, and simply watching the into cartoon the picture would hang for a 1-2 sec interval ever 15 sec and you would hear that audio loop where you know you're computer is about to blue screen, but it doesnt. The cartoon keeps playing and it hangs again in ~15sec
   3. Writing this very thread (a rare case when I can get this going online): As I'm writing this post on my desktop I get hang-ups. As I typed "cartoon" above, a hangup happened when i hit the "n" key that caused 23 "n"s to be typed up on screen.

Specs
CPU: Ryzen 7 5800x
MOBO: MSI MPG x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Wifi

BIOS Version: e7b93ams.1a0​

GPU: EVGA GTX 970 [to be replaced with a 3070/3080 when i can find one]
Storage: Samsung 980 Pro PCIe 4.0 NVME M.2 1GB (OS) [Also a 2TB SATA SSD that I installed some drivers from, but not used at this time]
RAM: T-Force Xtreem ARGB DDR 4 3600hz 14-15-15-35
PSU: a refurbished [from Corsair] Corsair 850wat something
Cooling: Arctic Liquid Freezer 2 280
Case: Lian Li Lancool Mesh II Performance

turning XMP on has given me the most stable results so far. Other than that I haven't tweaked anything in the BIOS, though i did notice my RAM was being clocked at 2400MHz following a CMOS clear/ re-flashed BIOS. Assuming that's just the default setting?


What I've Tried so far
To me this is a MOBO / driver issue (see 1 and 2), so I've tried clearing CMOS, and even re-flashing the BIOS from a flash drive with no luck. It on occasion works "better", but frankly my time to trouble shoot is limited so once I get internet connected after a reboot (now that I found that out tonight to post this!), it's usually late so I just shut the system down.

I'm at my wits end here as far as what could be wrong. It boggles my mind why the system was rock solid for the first 2 weeks, and now is more skittish than a scared rabbit. I look forward to your thoughts and very much appreciate you taking the time even read to this point.

Best,
Vailin

 

[Brian Boru]

Startup used to be near instant … now averages ~1min, but can be as much as 5min

That sounds like some other app/process has started running 2 weeks after you built—do you recall installing anything new around then? Likely candidates are anti-malware which is set to do a full scan on startup, or Windows indexing, or similar.

1. Look in the Startup tab of Task Manager and disable anything you don't need starting with Windows.

2. Set Task Manager to start at bootup and see what it shows for the load on CPU & GPU during the various freezes, plus which apps/processes are causing the load—you can sort the Task Manager columns by clicking on their headers.

 

[Vailin8]

I said "startup" I'm mt first message, I should have said "post".

As far as apps, it's fairly bare bones currently. Steam, MSI Dragon Center, CPUZ... that's it... I still need to uninstall Edge in favor of Chrome.

Looking at Task Manager/ Resource Monitor, nothing seems to be taxing the system (checked CPU, Mem, GPU, disk). Hiccups continue indefinitely following startup with nothing on, but total utilization stays below~15%.

 

[Brian Boru]

I should have said "post"

Ah okay, different kettle of fish and generally out of my league.

why the system was rock solid for the first 2 weeks, and now is more skittish than a scared rabbit

Can you think of anything you changed after the 2 weeks, hardware mainly?

Have you had a look in the BIOS/UEFI? Some of your symptoms suggest the onboard graphics is overriding the 970, make sure the integrated is turned off in BIOS.

Hopefully an expert will drop by

 

[Vailin8]

Can you think of anything you changed after the 2 weeks, hardware mainly?

While I don't think this is the issue, I did move the 970 back and forth between the new and old system a few times because I forgot to transfer things between the systems. I've double checked the seating and power (both GPU and RAM for good measure) , but the issue still persists

Have you had a look in the BIOS/UEFI? Some of your symptoms suggest the onboard graphics is overriding the 970, make sure the integrated is turned off in BIOS.

A 5800x doesn't have onboard graphics, so I assume that's not the issue? Any good way for this BIOS novice to rule that out?

Thank you for the help so far!

 

[Dtr_Tomppa]

Looking at Task Manager/ Resource Monitor, nothing seems to be taxing the system (checked CPU, Mem, GPU, disk). Hiccups continue indefinitely following startup with nothing on, but total utilization stays below~15%.

with 5800x 15% cpu usage is not normal with only windows running.. my 2700x shows 0-1% at that point and if I start a game in the background it might go up to 15%...

 

[Brian Boru]

Have you monitored CPU & GPU temperatures?

Did you assemble the CPU to the mobo? If so, maybe you didn't get the thermal paste application right.

 

[Vailin8]

with 5800x 15% cpu usage is not normal with only windows running.. my 2700x shows 0-1% at that point and if I start a game in the background it might go up to 15%...

Only the memory gets up to 15%. CPU/ GPU are super low on utilization (almost always sub 3% at the desktop). My apologies for not breaking that out more clearly.

What's a little odd its that CPU frequency is almost always holding steady at 110-125%. I assume that's because I turned on XMP?

Have you monitored CPU & GPU temperatures?

Did you assemble the CPU to the mobo? If so, maybe you didn't get the thermal paste application right.

Reinstalled windows so I can't check at the moment, but temps seemed reasonable when I looked previously. Nothing above 70C GPU while in a game. CPU I want to say was no higher than 50C (probably lower)

I did assemble the whole system myself. I don't have any spare thermal paste on hand (used up what came with the AIO), so I'm hesitant to take the cooler off to check my work if the temp readings are looking good. Let me know if you think that's a possible problem given the temps above and I'll grab some paste to take a look!

 

[Brian Boru]

I'm hesitant to take the cooler off to check my work if the temp readings are looking good

No, no need with those temps.

I can't think of anything else, so good luck

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Hi, I have a few ideas to try that might help.

Have you tried installing the GPU in another other PCI-E slot? Tried the NVME in the other slot also?

Have installed all chipset and network drivers from the MSI website rather then suiing the Windows default ones. I doubt that will help as you say it hangs before POST. Worth doing anyway

Try it out with one stick of RAM then the other, and do that slot by slot and test if it helps in Windows to rule out bad slots as well as potentially bad RAM.

If you have spare power cables for the PSU it might be worth swapping those out and testing as well. Motherboard, CPU and GPU cables.

Other then that it seems you've reached the point where you have eliminated software and its time to start eliminating hardware. Unfortunately thats difficult without buying hardware to swap in and out, unless you have a spare PSU/motherboard/NVME or friend with one you can borrow.

 

[Vailin8]

Have installed all chipset and network drivers from the MSI website rather then suiing the Windows default ones. I doubt that will help as you say it hangs before POST. Worth doing anyway.

Yep. Latest wifi and chipset drivers direct from MSI. (Saved these to the SATA SSD as wifi still isn't working. As a side note I just noticed I broke the antenna wire by accident from moving the tower too much and not realizing how short the wire is. Going to have to run a hardline through the walls over the weekend 😫 )

If you have spare power cables for the PSU it might be worth swapping those out and testing as well. Motherboard, CPU and GPU cables.

Don't have spare cables that are compatible with the current PSU, but I do have another 850W PSU from my prior system. Rewired the new system with the old PSU and no improvement at all.

Try it out with one stick of RAM then the other, and do that slot by slot and test if it helps in Windows to rule out bad slots as well as potentially bad RAM.

So, this test result really confuses me. RAM is 2x8gb, with 4 slots on the MOBO. To test I simply did just one stick at a time in each slot, booted up [posted super fast like before] without any of the weirdness like before. First stick seems good across all 4 slots, tested stick number 2 in just the two spots used for dual channel. Similar to stick 1, no issues booting up and desktop seems responsive. Seems weird the issue is gone with one stick at a time, so let's put both sticks in and see how it goes, right?

Here comes the crazy part. I put both sticks back in the appropriate dual channel slotsand boot up. Before posting I get some black and white text basically saying "memory change detected do you want to 1) boot to BIOS/UEFI to tweak things, or 2) load defaults and move on" [was also getting this prompt with the single stick testing at times, usually picked 1, same process as follows] . I select #1, enter UEFI [noted memory was clocked low at 2400 for ther two stick trial, but xmp was off so kept going] , change nothing and exit UEFI. System is now super slow and im back to square one ,which seems odd given 1 stick (didn't matter which) was working BETTER than 2. I shut the system down, moved the ram around and rebooted a few times to get the prompt to re-trigger again with 2 sticks, selected option #2 this time and suddenly the system seems to be fine (though my resolution is now locked at 1024x768 instead of 1080, that's a problem for another day, I hope). While I still need to wire it back up to the internet it seems like i have it? Do I have a bad set of RAM or MOBO, or did I simply shoot myself in the foot by being dumb and changing a setting I shouldn't have?

I can certainly try rotating the GPU/NVME slots tomorrow if that's still a possible issue.

Thank you very much Kaamos_Llama for the help. I really appreciate you taking the time to lend a hand

Best,
Vailin

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Well thats weird but glad you got somewhere! I guess it might be something to do with some lower RAM timings being unstable, and somehow loading defaults allowed the BIOS to train the memory better on startup. I really dont know.

I dont think you need to rotate the NVME and GPU if the issue is gone. Not sure on the resolution being locked lower at all, you might be best off with a fresh install of Windows again. If the RAM was unstable then it could have corrupted the O.S in some way.

Anyway keep an eye on it, hopefully its all good now

By the way do you really have a 3600 C14 kit? That seems like it might be a little fast to be properly stable unless you tested it thoroughly.

 

[Vailin8]

It seems so weird to me that the resolution dropped as a result of a memory settings reset . I'll try a clean OS install and see if im out of the woods.

I do have a 3600 c14 kit, see #1 here. This is certainly an area of PC building where I might have over spent then? Im not looking for the bleeding edge of performance, just something that will (hopefully) last as long as the motherboard till we're all on ddr5? I thought just flipping on XMP would be safe, but if there is a more stable way to set this up im all ears!

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

If theres a second XMP profile for 3600 C16 and it works I think youll probably be good. The difference wouldnt be noticeable. thats a pretty fast kit and a decent price for sure.

I'm not sure on how the average Ryzen memory controller is but it could well have been that it wasnt stable, and it kept the same unstable lower timings when you selected 'enter UEFI' instead of load defaults like you said above.

XMP is still overclocking and it isnt guaranteed to work out of the box, silicon lottery plays a part and the motehrboards memory circuitry affects it too.

I'd be tempted to try for example 3200 C16 first and test for a while to see if the same problem arises, then bump to a slightly faster profile and so on.