Civilization 5 playing it Wide w Raging Barbarians

[Zloth]

This loading screen from Expeditions: Rome immediately got a screenshot!

Είμαστε Βάρβαροι! (or maybe switch the two words - Google Translate is unclear)

 

[Brian Boru]

China​

Been messing around with China, I like her UU and UB. Chu-ko-nu is a serious item, a crossbow with 2 shots per turn—unbeatable for a long time. I have yet to find out if the 2 shots stack with the Logistics promo to give it 3 shots—wouldn't that be a game winner!

UB 'Paper Maker' is a Library replacement which gives a great early Gold boost—no maintenance and 2 Gold per turn. Library is an early build for any Civ, so China doesn't need a weird tech order to get their UB.

Empress Greta Garbo

Eye vant too bee a loan
Having trouble getting starts where I have my own landmass with only Raging Barbs for company. Nearby civs mean the Barbs become obsolete quite early, and the civs are a PITA when trying to experiment with various game mechanics and approaches—need to keep variables low to draw valid conclusions.

I've reduced opponents to one in frustration, tried Hemispheres map which gave me my own place. Got a neat XP farming city down early:

I'm not dreaming of killing the Barb camp, it's feeding my Archer and Trireme like it's a candy store

I made a mess of that game tho—'forgot' to build Paper Makers and ended up in financial trouble. Serves me right for such a stupid oversight—got blinded by getting my 3 early Settlers out to provide the 4 early cities I want, but of course that's less of a priority when you have a landmass to yourself.

I've moved onto a Continents map v 1 opponent, but I have the start turn of the XP farming game saved, so will probably go back to it. I'm saving any interesting starts which could prove interesting to experiment with vis a vis different approaches.

 

[Brian Boru]

I'm saving any interesting starts

And any great starts too—behold a yum-yum!

I like water-based games, so this is prime for China—Gold from the Crabs, Gold from the Paper Maker, +2 Production on 4 seafood plots with Lighthouse and God of the Sea Pantheon—what could go wrong? I'm the player, that's what But yeah, that'll fund a few more Archers so I can get Workers doing their thing without being constantly Barbed.

<aside>I'm thinking of starting a Civ newspaper—yeah, yeah newspapyrus at first until Printing Press—would a good name for it be Barbed Wire?</aside>

Nice forests for Lumbermill soon—I prioritize its tech Construction for the Composite Bowman en route to the Chu-ko-nu. Nice hills too. Which segues into…

Production is very slow​

I remember this was a second problem I had with Civ5 originally, that it took forever to build anything—like eg once Capital hits 2 pop it's typically ~15 turns to build a Settler, even with Production Focus turned on. Over 10 for Library and Trireme, 6-7 for Archer etc.

I set second city to build The Great Lighthouse from turn #1—it started at 93 turns, this for a Classical Era wonder! Improved a bit with Aristocracy Policy, which boosts all Wonders by 15%, but still city was pop 5 before it finished it.

Maybe I need to place that +6 Production Natural Wonder—King Solomon's Mines—beside capitals in the Advanced Setup mod, hmm…There are a couple of other +Production NatWons also—The Grand Mesa +2 and The Great Barrier Reef +1—which I could scatter in players' regions. Adv Setup allows for multiple copies of NatWons, maybe it's time to experiment with that.

Production is fine once you get going—very approx after turn 150—but damn, the start is dragged out painful. Same with Food & Gold. I guess that's meant to gel with the Happiness constraint in the default game, which severely limits earlier eras expansion.

Well, not for me!
Options are a Good Thing!

 

[Pifanjr]

And any great starts too—behold a yum-yum!

I like water-based games, so this is prime for China—Gold from the Crabs, Gold from the Paper Maker, +2 Production on 4 seafood plots with Lighthouse and God of the Sea Pantheon—what could go wrong? I'm the player, that's what But yeah, that'll fund a few more Archers so I can get Workers doing their thing without being constantly Barbed.

<aside>I'm thinking of starting a Civ newspaper—yeah, yeah newspapyrus at first until Printing Press—would a good name for it be Barbed Wire?</aside>

Nice forests for Lumbermill soon—I prioritize its tech Construction for the Composite Bowman en route to the Chu-ko-nu. Nice hills too. Which segues into…

Production is very slow​

I remember this was a second problem I had with Civ5 originally, that it took forever to build anything—like eg once Capital hits 2 pop it's typically ~15 turns to build a Settler, even with Production Focus turned on. Over 10 for Library and Trireme, 6-7 for Archer etc.

I set second city to build The Great Lighthouse from turn #1—it started at 93 turns, this for a Classical Era wonder! Improved a bit with Aristocracy Policy, which boosts all Wonders by 15%, but still city was pop 5 before it finished it.

Maybe I need to place that +6 Production Natural Wonder—King Solomon's Mines—beside capitals in the Advanced Setup mod, hmm…There are a couple of other +Production NatWons also—The Grand Mesa +2 and The Great Barrier Reef +1—which I could scatter in players' regions. Adv Setup allows for multiple copies of NatWons, maybe it's time to experiment with that.

Production is fine once you get going—very approx after turn 150—but damn, the start is dragged out painful. Same with Food & Gold. I guess that's meant to gel with the Happiness constraint in the default game, which severely limits earlier eras expansion.

Well, not for me!
Options are a Good Thing!

What speed do you normally play at? I'm guessing Normal?

My wife doesn't play anything but Quick, exactly because it takes too long to get anything done otherwise.

 

[Hveðrungr]

I actually liked playing it on slower speeds because it meant that I had time to use my new units. Otherwise, by the time I'd built a new unit I'd researched something that made it obsolete.

 

[Brian Boru]

I'm guessing Normal

You winna cookie

As I mentioned, once it gets going it's fine, so Quick would be too headlong at that stage—stuff going obsolete before it's had a chance to impact the situation decreases the strategic depth.
ETA: Like Loki said

I actually liked playing it on slower speeds

I played some Civ4 on Marathon when I was learning the military side of things, and played quite a few Epic games all thru first ~5 years—pacing on 4 was about right imo, whereas 5 seems unbalanced.

Barb Boats

I miss Dromons! I must've sank ~15 Barb boats so far, they're camped on a small island just south of the yum-yum pic, and have filled it with land units so there's no room for any more. So every spawn is a boat, often 5-6 visible at a time My Archers are also racking up the XP.

It's easy enough, only one hairy encounter when 3 of theirs attacked one of my Triremes on the same turn. But still, needing to churn out 3 Triremes just to defend…

Not using City defensive ability

Is it Barrage or Bombard? Whatever, I'm only having the garrisoned Archers fire now, so they get the max of +2 XPs from more shots.

4 Ruins = 2 Scouts

This applies only if you use the mod to give promo choice to all Scouts.

If you expect to get 4 Ruins, build a second Scout first. First promo the 1st Scout grabs is the Upgrade Weaponry one, which makes it an Archer BUT retains the Scouts abilities. 2nd and 3rd promos are your choice—I take Culture, then Tech or Gold—and have the 2nd Scout make the 4th discovery, and pick the Upgrade Weaponry again.

Ruin choices cycle every 3 turns, so what you pick first won't show again until 4th, etc.

It's a significant advantage having 2 ultra-mobile Archers in hilly or forested or marshy or jungle terrain. They can withdraw one tile from all chasing melee and still fire a ranged barrage, and the melee won't be able to hit them next turn—rinse and repeat for loadsa XP.

 

[Pifanjr]

I actually liked playing it on slower speeds because it meant that I had time to use my new units. Otherwise, by the time I'd built a new unit I'd researched something that made it obsolete.

War is my least favourite part of the game, so I don't really care about whether units are obsolete. I typically have a tiny army until someone attacks, at which point I churn out a whole bunch of units in a couple of turns.

 

[Brian Boru]

Adv Setup allows for multiple copies of NatWons, maybe it's time to experiment with that.

Experiment started, got the +6 Production Natural Wonder—King Solomon's Mines—beside my capital.

Barb AI​

I hope this was deliberate:

The two NE and SE of me appeared the turn before, and I figured I could take 'em handily enough. Then guy at E shows up and pins me there!

So I reload and move 1 tile E off the coast to provide an escape route. Which results in…

Yeah, dead next turn

As I said, hope it was deliberate—nice trap by the Barbs!

 

[Brian Boru]

Chu-ko-nu is a serious item, a crossbow with 2 shots per turn—unbeatable for a long time. I have yet to find out if the 2 shots stack with the Logistics promo to give it 3 shots—wouldn't that be a game winner!

Aw, sad news—doesn't stack with Logistics

 

[Zloth]

War is my least favourite part of the game, so I don't really care about whether units are obsolete. I typically have a tiny army until someone attacks, at which point I churn out a whole bunch of units in a couple of turns.

Just In Time defense! (OK, so maybe I do occasionally cheese it by loading one or two turns earlier... )

 

[Brian Boru]

Shoshone overpowered?​

Wandered thru the civ list to choose those likely to be decent v Raging Barbs—which is close to constant light combat, but without war BS attached—especially early on during the vulnerable stage.

Great Expanse

This is the civ trait and provides 8 additional usable tiles when you found a city. So 14 instead of everyone else's 6. That's pretty huge bonus imo, especially useful for coastal cities with seafood resources in the 2nd or 3rd expansion circle.

Pathfinder

This UU—Unique Unit—replaces the Scout, only downside being it's more expensive. Big plus for me is that it upgrades to Composite Bowman from Ruins, rather than the usual Archer. Find 4 Ruins and you can have 2 CBs very early in the game, which can lord it over the Raging Barbs—they hold the Scout ability to ignore terrain movement penalties.

Early Pyramids

Pyramids becomes a very important Wonder in this scenario—gives 2 Workers and speeds up Improvement construction by 25%. 2 CBs make it feasible to get early tile improvement going, especially if you can place first cities to block off Barb access to your early backyards.

 

[ZedClampet]

War is my least favourite part of the game, so I don't really care about whether units are obsolete. I typically have a tiny army until someone attacks, at which point I churn out a whole bunch of units in a couple of turns.

This is exactly how I play, and I usually play on quick, too. Definitely nothing worse than "normal". I don't recall if I ever played with raging barbarians on, but I know that on a couple of occasions I turned them off completely. They were just a minor early game nuisance anyway if you don't play "raging".

But my brother (the software engineer, not the actor) plays the opposite. He plays on the slowest possible settings. I would lose what little is left of my mind. WTH am I supposed to do while it takes 50 plus turns to build anything? Just wander around being anal retentive?

Then you have Guido's style. He only develops rockets so he can send declarations of war into space.

 

[ZedClampet]

(What) am I supposed to do while it takes 50 plus turns to build anything?

@Brian Boru This is kind of a serious question. I've never watched you or my brother play. What exactly do you do during all this down time waiting for things to build? I guess with raging barbarians turned on you have a lot more fighting strategy? But when you start on a little island as you did above, you can't really do a lot of exploring because you can only go so far away from land, right? Do you just hit the end turn button, glance around, hit it again, etc?

 

[Brian Boru]

WTH am I supposed to do while it takes 50 plus turns to build anything?

The slow speeds are for war mongers, I've used Epic for learning military stuff. Units move at the same speed across the map, regardless of what game speed is. When you get your UU you [don't stutter over those last 3 words!] can get plenty of mileage out of it before it goes obsolete.

I typically have a tiny army until someone attacks, at which point I churn out a whole bunch of units in a couple of turns

Mine is typically small—one ranged garrison for each city plus a couple of promo-gathering tough guys roaming around. I pay to upgrade the tough guys as I get the techs, but leave the rest untouched unless a need arises.

I try to accumulate Gold as a strategic resource, so I can always buy units or land or new city buildings.

Gift Obsoletes

With every non-garrison unit costing maintenance, get rid of old guys you no longer need. I've just reached Galleass navy, to which Triremes do not upgrade—melee won't upgrade to ranged. So I'm gifting a Trireme to the local City States every 3 turns—gain influence, save money

Triremes upgrade to Caravels, I'll build a couple of those if I need them—but I prefer to wait for ranged Frigates which come soon after.

 

[Brian Boru]

We cross-posted

when you start on a little island as you did above, you can't really do a lot of exploring because you can only go so far away from land, right?

Right. I wouldn't dream of going slower than Normal on my preferred isolated setups.

The slow speeds are for Pangea or Continents with a few other civs on your landmass. You wage war against them to wipe everyone on your landmass out. If Continents, the idea is to own yours before the tech for ocean travel arrives, and then go whack the other continent.

I suppose the ideal setup for such an endeavor would be a civ like the Shoshone, which has 2 UUs, one early game and one for 2nd half—Shoshone have a Cavalry replacement as 2nd UU.

As said above, you need to max usage of your UU(s) which can rampage the map before they go obsolete. I remember guys on CivFanatics who always played Marathon [lack of] speed, their games would last a month!

 

[ZedClampet]

The slow speeds are for war mongers, I've used Epic for learning military stuff. Units move at the same speed across the map, regardless of what game speed is. When you get your UU you [don't stutter over those last 3 words!] can get plenty of mileage out of it before it goes obsolete.



Mine is typically small—one ranged garrison for each city plus a couple of promo-gathering tough guys roaming around. I pay to upgrade the tough guys as I get the techs, but leave the rest untouched unless a need arises.

I try to accumulate Gold as a strategic resource, so I can always buy units or land or new city buildings.

Gift Obsoletes

With every non-garrison unit costing maintenance, get rid of old guys you no longer need. I've just reached Galleass navy, to which Triremes do not upgrade—melee won't upgrade to ranged. So I'm gifting a Trireme to the local City States every 3 turns—gain influence, save money

Triremes upgrade to Caravels, I'll build a couple of those if I need them—but I prefer to wait for ranged Frigates which come soon after.

We cross-posted



Right. I wouldn't dream of going slower than Normal on my preferred isolated setups.

The slow speeds are for Pangea or Continents with a few other civs on your landmass. You wage war against them to wipe everyone on your landmass out. If Continents, the idea is to own yours before the tech for ocean travel arrives, and then go whack the other continent.

I suppose the ideal setup for such an endeavor would be a civ like the Shoshone, which has 2 UUs, one early game and one for 2nd half—Shoshone have a Cavalry replacement as 2nd UU.

As said above, you need to max usage of your UU(s) which can rampage the map before they go obsolete. I remember guys on CivFanatics who always played Marathon [lack of] speed, their games would last a month!

That all makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Hveðrungr]

The slow speeds are for war mongers

Yeah this is what I said up-thread. I play on slower speeds so I have chance to play with my shiny new units before they become obsolete. I don't think it's even about being a warmonger per se, it's more that in quick games there isn't really time for combat at all.