Are games in series coming out too slow?

[Zloth]

(Idea mentioned by Gameranx in this video)

The first game in the new FF7 Remake came out in 2020. The second game in 2024. The third hasn't been announced yet, but say it shows up in 2028. Eight years for a trilogy. If you played the first one at age 16, you'll be out of college (or working on graduate studies) by the time the series completes.

Xenosaga took 2 years per installment starting in 2002. So, if you liked the first game when it showed up, you're just waiting 4 years for the final third game to come out.

I understand why this is happening. Games are not only bigger, but they take FAR more people to put together. But, is the net effect making it too hard for gamers to really get attached to a series of games? Especially younger gamers?

 

[Zed Clampet]

Yes, they are coming out too slowly, and there isn't a good reason for it except that the studios are collapsing under their own weight.

Based on interviews with developers who left large studios, one of the primary reasons that these games take so long and cost so much is because the paradigm they work under used to work great when games were developed by a team of 20 to 30 people, but the whole system collapses when you have teams the size they are now. And for the most part, the games are not bigger and more complex than they used to be. The studios claim they are, but when you actually go back and look at older games, like the first Mafia game, you see that they did an outrageous amount of stuff that no 1000 person studio is willing to undertake today.

The first Mafia game had tons of complex systems that no one puts into games anymore, and they did it with about 30 people. Now it takes them 400 people and more time to make a more simple game. Sure, the map might be bigger, but that's it. Everything else is more simple. Look at games like Morrowind and the complexity of its systems. They haven't done anything like that since, but they sure have a lot more people.

It's similar to the movie industry. I've heard industry people say that most of the people on the set don't do anything for most of the day, and that is echoed by developers who say that sometimes they have hundreds of people waiting for weeks for some system to be finished.

I would give a number of small team examples at this point, but my brain isn't cooperating, but I've played a citibuilder that rivals the anno series in every way except for cutscenes, and it's made by one person while Ubisoft lists 1300 people as having worked on the last anno game.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCFKuf8kn_U

 

[Johnway]

i think its the nature of the beast that AAA games take longer. better graphics, physics and world design takes much longer and require larger teams to build. it slowly adds up in scope etc. but that said i wouldn't deny that mismanagement plays a part on ballooning costs and massive delays. Just look at anthem.

Indie games are the last refuge of the bedroom coder, but even then these "indie" teams are still massive in comparison of the 90s dev teams. its probably why boomer shooters and pixel art became popular once more.

i dunno, i would have to be a fly on the wall to find out why it takes forever. maybe games are built by committee requiring sign off from all areas, maybe they like to make sure they get it done right, maybe the workers are lazy and/or the scope of the problem is huge, maybe employment laws preventing death marches etc are in place, maybe the plan isn't properly laid out etc etc.

i have contemplating making my own Doom 2 map and just starting off i just realized how difficult and long it can be to make just that one map. let alone a megawad alone. Solo efforts taking years is not unusual and it would be absolutely demoralizing after putting all that work everyone just pans your efforts.

 

[Zloth]

I think the number of complex systems in a game is more a limitation on the player side now and has likely been that way for a good 25+ years. Developers can add all sorts of systems to a game, but the players (by and large) don't want to have to learn all of it.

But what I'm really wondering is if the length of time needed to make a game is killing the ability to tell stories effectively over the course of a few games. By the time the next installment comes out, most people aren't going to remember what has gone before. I'm sure not going to buy into a trilogy if I know each game is going to take 10 years to come out, 4 seems to kinda work, but I would really prefer 2.

Maybe games will have to limit their stories to DLCs in the future and just forget about over-arching stories.