Are all competitive multiplayer games unfriendly to casual players?

[ZedClampet]

Are all competitive multiplayer games unfriendly to casual players?

Hope @Johnway doesn't mind my making an entire thread out of something he posted elsewhere. But this sounds like something that it would be good to get a lot of opinions on.

My personal opinion is that the answer is a wishy-washy yes. There's no doubt that you get better at a game the longer you play it, even if you don't notice that you are improving. This happened to me in Vermintide 2. I was barely able to complete any level on any difficulty setting when I first started and ended up soloing Legendary in the end. So the people who are playing these multiplayer games constantly are going to improve over time.

But the other side of this is the level of skill that a game requires and the natural talent of the casual player. Some of these games are low skill games. You still need to be good at shooting and strategy, etc. but there's nothing in particular about the game that takes practice to be able to master. The shooting or melee or whatever is just generic and doesn't ask anything special from you. It's been ages since I played a competitive game, so I can't give good examples, but For Honor was a game that took a great deal of skill specific to that game, so newcomers or casuals were at a severe disadvantage.

But the last part, the natural talent, has a huge impact. I started gaming with my son when he was 4-years-old, and he's just become a remarkable player, much better than I ever was. For him, he can buy an old game that still has a strong player base, and he can be immediately competitive. The very first time he played Chivalry 2 a couple of weeks ago, he was fantastic, and this is a game that has been out a little while. If I tried to play Chivalry it would be a painful slog at this point. I'd get beat every which way for weeks before I would really start to get the hang of it, and that's only if I played it regularly.

So I guess my answer is that yes, every game is unfriendly to casuals, but some more than others, and there are always a few casuals out there who break the rule.

 

[mjs warlord]

Hey Zed we meet again lol ... the only game i would recommend to stay clear of would be DOTA2 a few years ago i tried it and the abuse was so bad i uninstalled it , it is anti noob and you get real bad abuse from the opponents as well . I recently re-installed it but things are just as bad so i dumped it again.

 

[McStabStab]

I think many games try to make the difficulty curve less steep for new participants. HUNT: Showdown starts you in less populated matches with less PVP opportunities in your first few matches. CS:GOs casual playlists are filled with both crazy good players and low end players the like, but since they're casual matches people don't tend to get too salty during games. I've heard Fortnite and PUBG have more bots in servers for beginners.

So TLDR games are at least trying to make a decent first impression for newbies.

 

[Brian Boru]

games are at least trying to make a decent first impression for newbies

Multiplayer is already a big cash cow for some games, and is going to be much bigger. So it's totally in devs' and publishers' interests to make it newbie-friendly—people cancelling like MJS above in DOTA 2 is a cash source they can't mine.

Only multiplayer I looked into was the early days of C&C—a slow-paced gather resources, build your base, build an army, explore the map, maybe take some outposts, and go KO the other guy(s). Needed strategy and tactics.

The multiplayer: build 10 soldiers asap and rush enemy base if nearby. If farther away, wait for 10 tanks. Not an iota of interesting choices, just optimal build order and speed of execution.

 

[mjs warlord]

Hello Brian thanks for your comments ....

With regards to you comments about multiplay ( or even single play ) , pc gamer magazine did an article about cash cows a few years ago and the devs they spoke to said they only needed 3% of the worldwide users to spend cash to make the game worth running. It is of course a vicious circle because you get to a point where yes it was "free" but you start to get beat by either bots or real people who have already spent money to get good. Their comes a point where you have to decide when to spend money and when to shut your wallet.

I used warframe for about 7 years and the only thing i paid for was extra outfit slots , i stopped using it because one day i logged in and everything i had bought or grinded for had vanished.

With regards to abuse i think that DOTA2 is the exception to the rule , the players are really toxic and i am sure if they met you in real life they would shout **** off and run away.

In the 20 years since i moved over to pc games i have only seen one game that was properly monitored and that was age of mythology , the original version by eso/microsoft , if chat got out of hand the screen would go black and they shut both chat and the games for the rest of the day , this was replaced by a message saying .... if you done nothing wrong we are sorry for the inconvenience

 

[ZedClampet]

Hey Zed we meet again lol ... the only game i would recommend to stay clear of would be DOTA2 a few years ago i tried it and the abuse was so bad i uninstalled it , it is anti noob and you get real bad abuse from the opponents as well . I recently re-installed it but things are just as bad so i dumped it again.

I didn't even consider toxic communities. I've actually quit two games because of that.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

This is the main reason I don't play multiplayer. It takes time to get good, and all of the 1337 gamers just pummel you and don't give you a chance to get good. And if you're on teams, they just get angry with you for not being good yet.

I know a lot of games have pairing systems based on experience. But you're always going to have experienced gamers who start new accounts and get paired with noobs like me.

I'll just stick to hobbling through my single player games without having anyone yelling at me.

 

[mainer]

I'll just stick to hobbling through my single player games without having anyone yelling at me.

That's my viewpoint as well, I've never played a multiplayer game, competitive or any other variations. It just seems, from what I've read, that the competitive, and sometimes toxic, environment can be brutal to someone who's never played that type of game. It could be that that my perspective is partially due to my age, in that the older I get I just have less patience for negative behavior. The only multiplayer game that I've even considered would be The Elder Scrolls Online, just because I've been so immersed in the Elder Scrolls games over the years. But I don't think that's considered a competitive multiplayer but more of a co-op, although I think there may be pvp also.

 

[Johnway]

I asked the question, so i'm obliged to give my rambling input on it.

In a single word answer: yes, competitive multiplayer is unfriendly to casual players.


The problems really begin when the following happens:

1. its a team event. You're only as strong as your weakest link.
2. You're under high pressure to perform well. You don't want to be the one who ruins it for everyone else.
3. There are prizes on the line. Reward/pleasure/reputation from doing well or winning.
4. Its not a balanced game. Some might say, unfairly rigged. better players or uneven numbers

5.(bonus) a random public game as opposed to a team game.


All this is just a recipe for disaster. A free for all that results in a lot of injustice, hurt feelings and not particularly entertaining games. its neigh impossible to police.

The only ways i can think will help are:

1. ranked matches. not entirely sure how well that works. Chances are you'll be losing a hell of a lot more all through your career before the game has a feel for your skill level and even then it can be abused or fail.

2. Stack the odds in favor of the the weaker team. Get bigger bonuses for standing your ground. Those who leave, leave with nothing and a black mark on their records. those who stay to the end get bigger rewards regardless of your performacne. So if you were the last person, your reward is better or you get more exp compared to the other team. Think equity/justice over equality. of course, open to abuse and people saying its like handing out participation awards and cheapens the efforts of those who actually tried.

3. Balance the match BEFORE play and lock it. Still not perfect. if you're a small team of friends were forced to split to even teams, i think people will be a bit upset. again not perfect as its open to abuse.

4. Players toughen up - how long is that going to take? how much punishment and disappointment people can take? me? i have better things to do then waste time/money being humiliated and getting no where.

5. ease the pressure. have a fun free for all practice area where everyone can just relax and practice. Consequence free of winning or losing. Just you and the other team duking it out with no end, no K/D. But getting points. Could work with deathmatch games etc.


More later....

 

[Alm]

I think that community toxicity/intolerance is the only thing that makes multiplayer games bad for casuals. Though I consider myself as a bit of a casual as I play many single player games on easy. I think I'm on the more proficient end of casual.

Most of these games would be relatively easy to pick up with a supportive community imo.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

That's my viewpoint as well, I've never played a multiplayer game, competitive or any other variations. It just seems, from what I've read, that the competitive, and sometimes toxic, environment can be brutal to someone who's never played that type of game. It could be that that my perspective is partially due to my age, in that the older I get I just have less patience for negative behavior. The only multiplayer game that I've even considered would be The Elder Scrolls Online, just because I've been so immersed in the Elder Scrolls games over the years. But I don't think that's considered a competitive multiplayer but more of a co-op, although I think there may be pvp also.

I've never tried Elder Scrolls Online, but from what I've heard, it's a completely different experience than playing Skyrim, or something. That's the main reason I haven't tried it. Maybe if I get Game Pass, I'll check it out. But what I really want is TES VI.

 

[Brian Boru]

I'll just stick to hobbling through my single player games without having anyone yelling at me

C&C Generals—maybe in the Generals Challenge in Zero Hour—had some fun taunting by the AI.
The chem-bio weapons opponent: "Are you ready for your chemistry lesson?"

https://www.pcgamer.com/do-you-like-bad-guys-who-talk-a-lot/

 

[Johnway]

C&C Generals—maybe in the Generals Challenge in Zero Hour—had some fun taunting by the AI.
The chem-bio weapons opponent: "Are you ready for your chemistry lesson?"

https://www.pcgamer.com/do-you-like-bad-guys-who-talk-a-lot/

The thing with the Ai is that it was made to be beaten. There is a fighting chance and is a universal enemy that everyone can get behind. of course, in coop games you can get toxic behaviour, especially in more hardcore games or on harder difficulties where you need to know what you're doing and there's little margin for error. Again the same with competitive gaming, you're only as strong as your weakest link and if your weakest link breaks, you're all going to waste time and lose. And it wasn't even your fault....

i do remember in L4d i enjoyed playing on lower difficulties babysitting beginners and generally people are more tolerant even if you mess up (my personal one was my first time i was playing dead air during the construction site. I didn't know the map and i was standing isolated with the horde attacks. my colleagues kept them off my back). That said, if someone pisses around for the lols they would really test my patience. Like shooting all the explosives that i had been preparing for a fight. You can bet i would vote to kick that person pretty swiftly after warning them...

 

[ToxicOffender]

It´s always the same funny thing with those even funnier people.

They´re unfriendly...and when you tell them to go to hell they instantly feel victimized and accuse you of being a toxic troll.

Now what is amusing me so much with that fact and those people is, how a-holes like those instantly feel victimized so easy. This is actually so much fun, there was a time i joined "the most toxic communities with multiplayer-games" according to google, while at that time one of them was "RUST".

Sadly to my surprise, i found really nice people in RUST who helped me building my first cottage, being everything else but "toxic", that was when i lost my interest in playing that crappy game, so then there was another MULTIPLAYER-ONLY-TITLE i left just after playing for 2 or 3 days in total and never went back to it ever again.