The book discussion thread

[Johnway]

More graphics novels. This time its undiscovered country volume 2 : Unity.

The outsiders have survived the land of destiny and have begun their walk of the spiral and moved onto the next state. unlike Destiny, the state of unity is a gleaming, technological paradise. It is soon discovered that the state of unity answer to what made the USA great was its technology and its way that it unifies the people (and their collective minds) to solve all problems.

The survivors discovers the purpose of the spiral walk; to be impartial outsiders to experience/ observe each state and decide which way of life is the answer to fixing America, but more importantly, the right solution to fixing the world itself. is unity's answer the correct one or underneath the clean, efficient, unified society hiding some horrible truths?

Another good volume, i enjoyed it a lot as it switches up the story and we get more tidbits of backstory to various characters, namely Daniel and Charlotte. But more importantly, more backstory to events in the USA after the first sealing and the internal conflicts between some states. Destiny man also makes an entry and unsurprisingly, his thoughts on Unity being the answer disgusts him and sets to destroy it all. ultimately it ends with a bang and the story ends on a strange and intriguing...


which leads us to the Undiscovered country Volume 3: Possibility . The outsiders move onto the state of possibility. This states answers to what makes USA great? its influences to culture; the music, the stories, the American way of life and the place of creativity. Which is rich because everyone is dead and all that's left are the human's creations. Pirate Sam informs them that to move on, they need to write/create a cultural masterpiece.

Another interesting story, namely we get to understand more of the land of possibility and how the most artistic and creatively sealed themselves away with their Anything machines to create anything and everything they needed. Unfortunately when you become creatively bankrupt and start creating bad ideas, they come back to haunt you...

We get more backstory on 2 more of the survivors. Namely American expert Ace and journalist Valentina. We get interesting tid bits of life in the grey zones and also a few tidbits of the 2 diplomats Janet and Chang.

The ending is a bit of a cop out (or was it?) as the survivors never really succeed in the task and aurora steps in to let them through. Whilst culture is a bust as an answer, there is still some interesting plot hooks, namely the anything machines. Will certainly read the next volume.

 

[Colif]

All the authors I used to read are dead now.

The last ones death coincided with me needing reading glasses so I haven't really looked that hard for a new one. recently anyway. I find it difficult to find authors as silly as Douglas Adams & Terry Pratchett were.

I have every Terry Pratchett book. I didn't want to read his last book as final chapter written after he was dead. I should read them again.

 

[Brian Boru]

authors as silly as Douglas Adams & Terry Pratchett

Neil Gaiman maybe?

 

[Colif]

i think I read his already. I know name.

 

[Zloth]

Nothing has ever been as funny for me as Douglas Adams. No book, no movie, no comedy skit - not even close. When you find out why the petunias thought "oh no, not again...."

I finished Sanderson's last "secret" novel. These four smallish novels were experimental ones that Sanderson wrote up over the COVID years instead of going out to book signings and whatnot. The last one was set in his Cosmere universe on a very small planet with a big sun. Anyone on the light side would be fried in seconds. The small population lived on hover ships that travelled around the planet constantly.

It was a good little book. It had plenty of action, plenty of Sanderson's signature world building, a satisfying ending, and some interesting Cosmere tidbits.

 

[Johnway]

So whilst i finish off my next book, i was reading through Undiscovered country Volume 4: Disunity.
After the farce of the creatives zone and the impromptu appearance of the destiny man the whole journey goes haywire. The explorers have become separated and seek to find a way to reunite and move onto the next zone. Easier said then done when they're split into different times in history and in alternate timelines.... How will the explorers accomplish the task? why does aurora wish the explorers to experience these particular times in history, what is the big secret Aurora is hiding?

Another cracking book. we get more information to who the destiny man is and what his motives are. The History zone was more of a think tank for possible scenarios and outcomes in America's past in the hopes to shape its future. its quite interesting the survivors try to piece together the puzzle to find out what aurora wants them to do and also understand its motives. It slowly becomes a farcical situation like Groundhog day, only each time they die, they shift to an alternate timeline/history and the more they die the more fatal the experience becomes, so they have limited lives to solve the problem.

We also get a glimpse and experience the possible futures where America rules the world, or the world destroys the US and the world becomes unified under the 2 explorers Chang and Janet, who become the defacto emperors.

So that's me sort of caught up with the entire volumes, yes there is a 5 series where the explorers move onto zone bounty, but its still being published atm.

 

[Johnway]

Another book finished this time its Vainglorious by sandy mitchell. its another story in the caiphas cain series.

Commissar Cain has nearly accomplished the impossible in the WH40K universe: Survive long enough in the Astra Miltarium to see retirement.

With a scholar/training post being offered Cain is itching to take the position and never have to risk his life in battle ever again. Cain decides to take one last assignment before retiring - a seemingly simple inspection job to find out why a forge world output is so low. But this seemingly mundane task quickly escalates when Cain becomes the target of multiple assassination attempts. its up to him to uncover the conspiracy, deal with it and also fulfil his initial task all without getting himself killed in a glorious fashion.

Whilst its well written, i didn't enjoy it as much as his previous books, its not as exciting or interesting compared to when he was in an active warzone with the Valhallan regiment or a hostile environment. it all felt mundane. It luckily does pick up near the end as the true baddie materializes and it does resolve the story in a nice way that concludes the story but also promises more tales of adventure. Still, i like the caiphas cain series and it was fine.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

LitRPG - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not a book, but today I became aware of the existence of LitRPG as a genre.

LitRPG, short for literary role playing game, is a literary genre combining the conventions of computer RPGs with science-fiction and fantasy novels

I'm actually reading Joe Abercrombies First Laws books for the first time. Into Act 2 of the second book and theyre some of the better fantasy I've read.

 

[Johnway]

LitRPG - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not a book, but today I became aware of the existence of LitRPG as a genre.



I'm actually reading Joe Abercrombies First Laws books for the first time. Into Act 2 of the second book and theyre some of the better fantasy I've read.

litRPG was stuff i read a hell of lot when i was a kid. Choose your own adventure and steve jackson and ian livingstones fighting fantasy especially were the most popular. Some of the books became proper video games! Case in point Deathtrap Dungeon.

haven't read any since i was a kid but i loved them. The sci fi ones were seriously crap though.

I never played them fairly though. i played them with inifinite stamina, luck and i could win every fight. Oh and i had quick saves (AKA folding the top corner of the pages)

if you would like some recommendations of the fighting fantasy series, i can offer them. There is also a link on archive.org for a whole load of them. I know of site with the PDF of the older stuff.

The main highlight of the books? The artwork, there's apparently a coloring book of it.

 

[Zloth]

Case in point Deathtrap Dungeon.

Deathtrap Dungeon shows up in Peter Quill's room in Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I also had a lot of the Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone books as a kid in the 80's and 90's, and I loved reading the lore books related to them like Titan and whatever the books with Chadda Darkmane were called.

Seems like LitRPG is something different from them, at least according to the Wiki.

In LitRPG, games or game-like challenges form an essential part of the story, and visible RPG statistics (for example strength, intelligence, damage) are a significant part of the reading experience.[2] This distinguishes the genre from novels that tie in with a game, like those set in the world of Dungeons & Dragons;[1] books that are actual games, such as the choose-your-own-path Fighting Fantasy type of publication; or games that are literarily described, like MUDs and interactive fiction. Typically, the main character in a LitRPG novel is consciously interacting with the game or game-like world and attempting to progress within it.

I cant imagine how that's different than being a more complicated Fighting Fantasy. Dont know havent read one yet. Might be difficult as an audiobook which is where I'm 'reading' 90% of the time these days.

 

[Johnway]

I also had a lot of the Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone books as a kid in the 80's and 90's, and I loved reading the lore books related to them like Titan and whatever the books with Chadda Darkmane were called.

Seems like LitRPG is something different from them, at least according to the Wiki.



I cant imagine how that's different than being a more complicated Fighting Fantasy. Dont know havent read one yet. Might be difficult as an audiobook which is where I'm 'reading' 90% of the time these days.

my bad. i had a quick google as well to figure out what LitRPG was and the way i understand it, its any story where a normal person becomes a hero in a digital world (Ie a videogame). Think those old fantasy stories where a kid gets sucked into a fantasy story and becomes a knight and saves the kingdom etc, except its in a video game! Ready player one seems to be a good example. normal kid is a nobody in the real world but when he jumps into the digital world he is some legendary hero.

but that litRPG label is seriously misleading. It should be something like ADRAS (Alternate Digital Reality Adventure) or something. The game part makes it sound like its a CYOA of FF book.

Speaking of FF books, anyone has any particular fav ones? i do like a hell of a lot of them. House of hell, deathtrap dungeon, curse of the mummy, midnight rogue and the island of the undead were my favs. there are a couple more once i can remember the names of them...


A few years back i had read/played of Ian livingstone's blood of the zombies game and that one is TOUGH. Unsurprising as apparently it was intentionally made difficult because Ian knew the main people reading it would be the older generation who grew up reading those books and cheated like hell. That said, the dice mechanics on the game are absolute BS.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Makes sense now you say it and I read the wiki quote again, my brain dont work good sometimes. Seems weird to call it a genre, more of a sub genre. But what is genre anyway.

House of Hell was damn scary as a kid, and I loved Creature of Havoc. I maybe had 10 of them and used to get them out from the library as well. Played them mostly when I was under 12 so I dont remember a massive amount specifically. I remember fighting a monster called a Clawbeast which had some sort of tentacles instead of arms, which seemed weird to me, and finding out that the main character was a failed experiment of Zharradan Marr. Spoilers.

 

[Johnway]

Makes sense now you say it and I read the wiki quote again, my brain dont work good sometimes. Seems weird to call it a genre, more of a sub genre. But what is genre anyway.

House of Hell was damn scary as a kid, and I loved Creature of Havoc. I maybe had 10 of them and used to get them out from the library as well. Played them mostly when I was under 12 so I dont remember a massive amount specifically. I remember fighting a monster called a Clawbeast which had some sort of tentacles instead of arms, which seemed weird to me, and finding out that the main character was a failed experiment of Zharradan Marr. Spoilers.

house of Hell has one the most popular of the series and has the honor of being one of the few book set in the modern era. it was also one that had a lot of death endings as well and was pretty challenging as you had to find the special weapon and then make sure you fight the right master at the end. Assuming you don't die of fright first....

I too got them from the library, but extensive as the collection was, a few of them eluded me until the 00s when i found them in PDF format or on archive.org.

i did read steve jacksons sorcery series as well and that was also shockingly tough. One of the few games that had the dice rolls printed into the book. So if you didn't have dice, you could just flip to a random page and have the dice rolls.

Did you play it legit with dice, pencil and all or did you just read it?

 

[Brian Boru]

what is genre anyway

Heading for the historical footnote section, it would seem:

Spotify Wrapped 2023: 'Music genres are now irrelevant to fans'

With over 6,000 classifications on Spotify, fewer fans choose their music by genre in the digital age.

www.bbc.com

6,000

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I was too innocent to cheat when I first started, used to play with dice and pencil and didnt finish many of them. Wasnt long until I started to cheat on the skill and stamina rolls though, anything under 10 skill and reroll.

IIRC some of the books had choices that you would have to go back 2 or three decisions to find a way through, so you couldnt always just go back and go to the other paragraph to progress.

I was more interested in the lore after a while, still remember the sections in Titan on Troglodytes, and there was a bestiary book called Out of The Pit, there was a giant spider called a Tarantella thats poison would cause the victim to dance until they died . Had the Blacksand! Book as well, but I used to just read it as I grew up in a tiny village when I was really young and none of the other 5 kids my age were interested in fantasy.

Heading for the historical footnote section, it would seem:

Spotify Wrapped 2023: 'Music genres are now irrelevant to fans'

With over 6,000 classifications on Spotify, fewer fans choose their music by genre in the digital age.

www.bbc.com

6,000

Makes sense, everythings a mix of everything else in everything. Put that on a T-shirt.

 

[Brian Boru]

everythings a mix of everything else in everything. Put that on a T-shirt

Okay…

 

[Johnway]

ok more books finished.

As per @Brian Boru recommendations, i read Arthur C Clarkes Fountains of paradise. The blurb on the back intrigued me as Vannevar Morgan attempts to build a space elevator. but its easier said then done as he has to contend with the political, financial and technical challenges to make it happen.

Not a bad book, even if its not the most thrilling/exciting book (the only excitement comes at final act during the accident), but its well written and its an interesting read as Morgan tries to work out the kinks and problems to building it.



lastly i read the graphic novel called berezina based on the novel written by Patrick Rambaud. its a story of Napoleon's ill fated campaign to conquer Russia. The 3 part volume starts at the point where napoleons army makes it to Moscow only having to withdrawal as the occupation of the capital becomes untenable. Throughout the story we also cover the common folk who are in the army. As we soon discover, its not just soldiers but various families, administrative staff, the rich , their servants/family etc. The story mainly focusses on 2 individuals: mr Rogue and the dragoon captain D'Herbigny and man servant paulin. unsurprisingly the events of napoleons retreat makes for compelling, if tragic/grim, reading as its just goes from bad to worse for them. The artwork just brings the whole scenario to life as how bad things are as they become increasingly worn down, dirty and desperate to survive. Interestingly the berezina bit is sort of quick as it goes more into detail the events before and after the river crossing as opposed to the actual situation. Would i recommend a read? yes i would.

 

[Johnway]

I had time to squeeze one more book before christmas before i read something a bit more substantial. This time its Stephen Kings The running man.

Those of you who only know the movie of the same name (starring arnold schwarzenegger) the book its based on is completely different. Ben Richards is an unemployed blue collar worker needing money to help his family and out of desperation he auditions to be a contestant on FreeVees many gameshows. he hits the big time and becomes a contestant on the prime tv show, the running man. The story mainly goes through the audition, during the run and the conclusion of his attempts to survive.

I actually enjoyed this one quite a lot. Since it was completely different from the movie i wasn't sure what to expect and that kept it interesting. Its well written and well thought out as stephen king fleshes out the world, the entire process and the characters. Where the book hits its stride is when the run begins as he becomes a fugitive and unlike in the movie EVERYONE is out to get him, the cops, the civilians as well as the stalkers. Sure, it at times does comes across as an action movie as he evades the cops, and shoots cars, but for the most part its clever and intelligent as Ben Richards his wits to survive what is essentially a rigged game. None more so apparent near the final 3rd of the book when the net closes in on him and it becomes a game of brinkmanship and bluffs to survive long enough for the climatic ending.

Speaking of ending, whilst its conclusive and suitably explosive, the ending is so quick that it becomes a complete cop out at the same time. I felt it could have been handled better and the tension was building up to the conclusion right from the start as the book chapters start from T-minus 100 and by the end reaches zero.


Still, would i recommend a read? Absolutely. I like the running man movie, but its completely different from the book its based off from and it shows how formulaic the movie really was. The book is more exciting and compelling and those only familiar with only the movie will find that the running man was a more thoughtful thriller and its more exciting because of it.

 

[Brian Boru]

I like the running man movie, but its completely different from the book its based off

Isn't it strange they presumably paid big bucks for the movie rights, and then didn't really film the story? Maybe just having SK's name in the marketing was enough to recoup

I saw the movie, was okay, not one of Arnie's memorably ones for me.

 

[Johnway]

Isn't it strange they presumably paid big bucks for the movie rights, and then didn't really film the story? Maybe just having SK's name in the marketing was enough to recoup

I saw the movie, was okay, not one of Arnie's memorably ones for me.

According to the wiki, the movie was supposed to follow the book more closely, the director on the other hand decided to go a different direction with it and whole script was rewritten to be more generic and its what we've been left with. rumors abound that there is another running man movie in the works and hell, even a running man 2, but that was several years ago.

Apparently, the running man was written under an alias that SK used (richard bachman) but who knows if this had impacted it. i agree its not arnie's best movie, but i seem to a lot of time flicking to watching it when there is nothing else on tv. Richard Dawson's performance was pretty good parodying his gameshow host persona. Oh and the preshow cheerleaders. Can't forget them, they were awesome. Fun tidbit, Paula Abdul choreographed the preshow dance sequences!

i like this tidbit from wikipedia:

"De Souza said one of the producers of American Gladiators sold his show with clips from The Running Man, telling the network "We're doing exactly this, except the murdering part""

 

[Zloth]

I started re-reading Zelazny's Amber series for the first time since... ummm... the early 80's maybe?

Finished both the Corwin and the Merlin books. Good fun... until the very end, of course.

Zelazny's writing style is a pretty strange one. He's got a good idea of how his world works and who the major characters are - then I think he just starts the ball rolling, making the story up as he goes along. As he's going along, he'll sometimes seemingly get some new, fun plot idea - and puts it in by having some new entity/complication show up, and the story will follow that. Then another new plot thread will appear, and we'll follow that! Maybe the story will steer back to the earlier plot, maybe not.

And you know what? It works! At least through the first series of books and a good way into the second. Sure, there are forgotten plot threads left lying around, but I was too busy having fun with the current thread to really care much. Eventually, it started to fall apart, though. Major antagonists were showing up and simply announcing that 'I don't want to fight you anymore because blah blah blah.' While I love seeing differences resolved without a battle, having them happen because of some unseen revelation is pretty cheap. In the last chapter of the last book, Zelazny seemed to just get tired of the whole thing, took cheap ways out of multiple plots, and just left the rest dangling.

Zelazny died a few years later and may have been getting too sick to continue. Whatever the case, the end result is totally unsatisfying. And this is from somebody who likes the ending to Mass Effect 3.

Imagine a propeller-driven airplane being chased by jets. The plane is going as fast as it can down at tree-top level, making all sorts of unexpected turns to dodge the jets. Sometimes it loses a few parts when it swoops too low, but it keeps going, dodging and swooping. Until finally it runs out of gas. It makes an unpowered half-loop, then crashes hard into the dirt. That's the Amber series. It's a crazy ride, suddenly going unexpected directions, never really slowing down, until finally... splat.

 

[DeanFlames]

Time to dive into the world of literature. What's everyone reading? Any hidden gems or must-reads you'd recommend? 📖

 

[Brian Boru]

literature … hidden gems or must-reads

Bee a long time since I did my lit stints, but lesser-known recommends:

John Updike—the Rabbit books, and Couples.
Joseph Conrad—Lord Jim, Heart of Darkness.
John McGahern—Amongst Women.

If you have a preferred style or theme, I can probably recommend more.

 

[Johnway]

Ok just adding a book i finished a week ago. I read The 33 strategies of war by robert greene. A book detailing various tactics of war ranging from attack, defense, preparing for war, controlling the war, leadership, buying time etc. It seems like it wants to be a more unusual self help book as essentially Robert Greenes aim is to treat life's issues like war and gives the reader advice/examples how to implement or counter the various rules of war.

if you take the book on face value, it does come across as serious fascist, the intro itself suggests that war is good, war makes us stronger, we need enemies etc. But if you think more about it and you put a human twist he's saying that its good to stay active, have an objective in life and like war, focus on the prize. but does come across as seriously bleak at times as objective rather then emotion is the key to success. He's not exactly wrong (life isn't fair, its cruel, everyone's always out for themselves), but it does come across as a bit harsh and at times feels questionable to use his advice for real world situations.

That said the other side of the book is that its more to prepare your mindset (whether in war, business or life) like a military tactician and coming up with your own strategies at winning. IE: identify the situation and how you're being attacked and implement or counter them. Don't expect this book to make you the a genius in warfare though.

Overall i did find the book interesting to read even at times despite the dubious nature of things as it does have some interesting tidbits of historical information and ideas. But i very much doubt that i'll use his advice for life and he's certainly not saying anything original as some self help books have similar ideas, just not so warlike.