Stamina - Do we always need it?

[Frindis]

I say no! I understand why we have it in games like Dark Souls or similar games with blocking/rolling, etc, but I think there are so many games out there that have a stamina system in their game without a big point to it. Let me give an example: In Palworld I removed stamina completely through custom games because it made no sense for me to have stamina in that game as flying/climbing/running takes forever and it takes a lot of the fun out of that game to have a stamina system as a major roadblock for exploration. I had 1000 times more fun without the stamina bar when I could move around like normal and focus on what the game is all about, mainly exploring catching monsters, breeding them, and using them for manual labor or fighting.

I can understand games having it that rely on progression toward becoming a great warrior or similar like you do with Skyrim. In that game, it makes sense for stuff to be harder in the beginning because they have a pretty good skill system that is built around your progressions from zero to hero. But with for example Palworld, it does not make much sense to me. I recently also played No Man Sky and that is another game where I went into the custom games and made it so you could run as much as you wanted. The main point of No Man Sky is exploration and I don't need a stamina system to weigh me down. Oh, even in the new game Enshrouded, I didn't get the point of it. It ended up with me exploiting the game mechanics and jumping while sprinting as a way to negate the stupid stamina chore.

A bit of a rant here, but the point I am trying to bring out is that the stamina system in a game is OK if there is a point of having it. Don't just put a stamina bar in a game because it's just how everyone else does it!

Am I completely out of my mind or do you share similar thoughts? Do you have examples of games that use a stamina bar but without there being much of a point having it in there?

 

[Colif]

Am I completely out of my mind

Yes, but we weren't going to say anything

As for topic, i mainly play the type of game where it makes some sense. I generally don't have a problem with it.

 

[Frindis]

Yes, but we weren't going to say anything

As for topic, i mainly play the type of game where it makes some sense. I generally don't have a problem with it.

At least having the option to customize the experience so it makes sense has some sense in it, do you sense it?

 

[Colif]

choose your own adventure

If game lets you, why not. Could be they add it as a feature, as game not released yet.

 

[Pifanjr]

For Palworld, I set up a dedicated server for my kid with everything set to its easiest settings. So increased capture rate, increased attack and defense, increased healing rate, increased stamina, increased XP gain, etc.

I've been using that server myself as well to try out the game and I'm really enjoying it. I don't have a lot of time to play, so not having to worry about hunger or stamina and not having to wait as long for health to regenerate makes the game more fun for me.

My wife is playing on an official server and thus plays with all the settings on "normal", but when I watch her play I don't get the impression that her limited stamina bothers her. For traveling it's mostly a non-issue (except for the times she (almost) drowns), only during combat does it become a factor to keep in mind because you can't just keep dodging and attacking constantly.

In my experience it seems like the hunger meter is more useless than the stamina meter. There's so much food available that it's never actually a problem when you get hungry. Which is a similar experience I had with Subnautica, where I felt like the hunger and thirst meters didn't really add much to the game.

 

[Frindis]

@Pifanjr For traveling it works ok, but I tend to exit the mount mid-air and spawn it a couple of seconds later as a way to negate the burden of stamina. Why can't the birds just, I dunno, glide? The hunger meter is a really good point. I did try to avoid it slightly through custom settings, but it still was very annoying! I did obtain the food pouches, and supposedly the pets should be eating from them when they got hungry, but they never did it seems. Perhaps I had the wrong food, I dunno.

I did find out when I was descending cliffs that you could negate the stamina if you did something, something without sharing that secret. Which makes me think: Why the hell did I have to think of it? Oh, that is right, because the stamina/climbing mechanics was incredibly boring! Exactly as boring as it was in the game Genshin Impact!.

 

[ZedClampet]

I say no! I understand why we have it in games like Dark Souls or similar games with blocking/rolling, etc, but I think there are so many games out there that have a stamina system in their game without a big point to it. Let me give an example: In Palworld I removed stamina completely through custom games because it made no sense for me to have stamina in that game as flying/climbing/running takes forever and it takes a lot of the fun out of that game to have a stamina system as a major roadblock for exploration. I had 1000 times more fun without the stamina bar when I could move around like normal and focus on what the game is all about, mainly exploring catching monsters, breeding them, and using them for manual labor or fighting.

I can understand games having it that rely on progression toward becoming a great warrior or similar like you do with Skyrim. In that game, it makes sense for stuff to be harder in the beginning because they have a pretty good skill system that is built around your progressions from zero to hero. But with for example Palworld, it does not make much sense to me. I recently also played No Man Sky and that is another game where I went into the custom games and made it so you could run as much as you wanted. The main point of No Man Sky is exploration and I don't need a stamina system to weigh me down. Oh, even in the new game Enshrouded, I didn't get the point of it. It ended up with me exploiting the game mechanics and jumping while sprinting as a way to negate the stupid stamina chore.

A bit of a rant here, but the point I am trying to bring out is that the stamina system in a game is OK if there is a point of having it. Don't just put a stamina bar in a game because it's just how everyone else does it!

Am I completely out of my mind or do you share similar thoughts? Do you have examples of games that use a stamina bar but without there being much of a point having it in there?

I agree 100 percent, and I've done the same thing with my Palworld game. I do that basically in any game that will let me unless it's such a huge deal in combat that changing it would fundamentally destroy the game's balance. An example of that is Conan Exiles. If you have unlimited stamina, that game's combat just becomes way too easy.

But there's something wonderful and liberating about playing a game like Palworld for awhile on regular settings and then getting rid of stamina. Makes everything better. Well, most everything. I was kind of having fun with my flying mount timing when to land and regain stamina, but I'm fine without doing that.

 

[Frindis]

@ZedClampet You got your favorite flying mount lined up? I used the Suzaku Aqua, which seemed good at vertical movement for egg hunting and had decent speed overall.

 

[Pifanjr]

I did obtain the food pouches, and supposedly the pets should be eating from them when they got hungry, but they never did it seems. Perhaps I had the wrong food, I dunno.

I believe that your Pals don't eat if you're too far away from your base (or offline). When there aren't any players in a part of the map that part stops being simulated. When someone returns the server calculates what your Pals would have done, but apparently it doesn't take them eating into account, so they're always hungry and often also sick if you've been gone for a while.

It's a pretty big oversight and one I expect to be fixed in not too long, but in the meantime you can put your Pals in the Palbox when you exit the server as a workaround.

Since I play on my own dedicated server which I stop when I stop playing I haven't had any problems with it myself luckily.

 

[Frindis]

@Pifanjr That makes sense and thanks for the tip. It is still early Access, so I am not too angry about it, just a little bit, lol

 

[Frag Maniac]

I think stamina meters are necessary in game genres where too much sprinting gives you a clear advantage to get past tough enemies, like survival horror, but it has to be balanced with the speed of the enemies, and I prefer there's an option to upgrade it. I was kind of surprised at first that Far Cry 6 has a very elaborate stamina upgrade system, but then it makes sense in a parkour heavy game, especially one with so much climbing. I soon started finding there were MANY military airdrops with useful upgrades that were VERY hard if not impossible to get to without more stamina. However it was the fact that use of the parachute took as much if not more stamina as climbing that surprised me most.

There are some survival horror games without a stamina meter or stamina upgrade system though that do well without it. The Callisto Protocol for instance has neither, but it does a very good job of limiting your ability to do melee non stop by having Jacob run out of breath here and there. He gets a bit more awkward and sounds a bit out of breath the more you have him swing the baton. It's one of those games like Doom Eternal that rewards the player for careful use of the combat loop, which doesn't have nearly as many facets to it as DE does, but the enemies are also less predictable.

So as much as I like a well implemented upgradeable stamina system in games, my answer to the question is it's not necessary, as there are definitely ways to deal with stamina without a set system. There are a lot of factors that contribute to how stamina should be implemented in games, such as what moves the player can do, how heavy the weapons are, how fast the enemies are, and the terrain and environmental conditions. There is ONE baton upgrade I know of in The Callisto Protocol where you can do longer combos with it, but I've learned you don't want to overdo melee in that game.

 

[Johnway]

i think it boils down to the game i guess. personally i think it depends on the scope and genre. The TLDR is whether you're after realism or casual experience and whether there are other mechanics at play.

A competitive FPS arena shooter or the likes of battlefield i think its detrimental to the experience. Especially in bigger maps where objectives are spread far and wide. It makes travelling that much more tedious and for more arcadey experiences i think its a no no. Hell if titanfall 2 had a stamina bar so you couldn't parkour without stamina, that would have killed the fun in seconds.

But more realism in your game like say survivals shooter, Squad, ARMA, Hell let loose i think its to be expected.

 

[Zloth]

I can't think of a game off hand where I didn't like the stamina bar.

Cyberpunk's is messing with me a bit. It works fine and makes sense. The problem I have with it is that it doesn't matter to me 95% of the time. Then I get into a boss fight and it very much matters - but I've forgotten the thing is there! WHY AM I NOT RUNNING!? OMG YOU STUPID GAME I'M GONNA... oh right, stamina. OK.

Which is a similar experience I had with Subnautica, where I felt like the hunger and thirst meters didn't really add much to the game.

If you didn't have those, you could just strike out in any direction and swim along the surface at the very start of the game. You'll find things you aughtn't be findin' yet! It does get a little tedious after you craft some things that make food & water easy, though.

 

[Pifanjr]

If you didn't have those, you could just strike out in any direction and swim along the surface at the very start of the game. You'll find things you aughtn't be findin' yet! It does get a little tedious after you craft some things that make food & water easy, though.

I agree it gives some incentive to not just wander off, but it doesn't stop you. You could just stock up on food and water and take off. It wouldn't take that much work and it's not that difficult to find more along the way, especially not when you stay near the surface.

Alternatively, I would've been happy if you could have crafted something that took the need for drinking water away entirely at some point. A portable water filter wouldn't have felt out of place considering the technology you have access to.

 

[Frindis]

i think it boils down to the game i guess. personally i think it depends on the scope and genre. The TLDR is whether you're after realism or casual experience and whether there are other mechanics at play.

I do believe I am becoming more interested in casual experiences as I get older. It is not that I have so much to do that I need stuff to happen quickly, I think it has more to do with enjoying the mechanics and not feeling they have to be a struggle.

I think Dayz is a good example of that as I did enjoy having the stamina bar when I first started playing, but now I feel the stamina bar becoming more of a chore. I think one of the reasons for it is that when you start knowing the map and where stuff is, the point of having to deal with the stamina makes less sense and is more of a roadblock before the fun begins. This is why I try to balance it out with going to servers that have unlimited stamina. Occasionally I'll go back to the vanilla experience when I want to slow things down and go for a stroll so to speak.

 

[Colif]

i was going to say Diablo 4 but the only stamina in that game is a potion that is empty... the potion is part of the Cow King quest line which they still haven't worked out yet. No idea how close they are to solving it. I hadn't been taking any notice.

 

[Frindis]

i was going to say Diablo 4 but the only stamina in that game is a potion that is empty... the potion is part of the Cow King quest line which they still haven't worked out yet. No idea how close they are to solving it. I hadn't been taking any notice.

I remember watching some videos about that and people were doing insane stuff like killing all the cows and or picking up stuff in a particular order as they were hoping it would start a chain of events. Now imagine if Blizzard didn't have the secret cow level at all. I guess some content can be just as interesting without there ever being a solution.

 

[Colif]

i think you have to kill 666 cows to get the items, not sure if that is 3 x 666 but its at least one times.
then you place those three items into the cow statues around a fountain
get a Strange key
use key in house, but reward here is the stamina bottle.
AFAIK this is as far as they have worked out.

We found fountain really early on, some of it was datamined as well.

the cows make it grindy. Harder than it was to get into hidden land on D3. I don't expect it be rainbows and sunshine this time around

 

[Rolfil]

I hate survival or crafting games that have stamina systems. For me it just slows down the game so I tend to either turn them off or see if there is a mod that alters them.

So I might get through a game more quickly. But it's not like my Steam and Epic libraries aren't full of other games I want to play!

 

[lilyjullet]

I say no! I understand why we have it in games like Dark Souls or similar games with blocking/rolling, etc, but I think there are so many games out there that have a stamina system in their game without a big point to it. Let me give an example: In Palworld I removed stamina completely through custom games because it made no sense for me to have stamina in that game as flying/climbing/running takes forever and it takes a lot of the fun out of that game to have a stamina system as a major roadblock for exploration. I had 1000 times more fun without the stamina bar when I could move around like normal and focus on what the game is all about, mainly exploring catching monsters, breeding them, and using them for manual labor or fighting.

I can understand games having it that rely on progression toward becoming a great warrior or similar like you do with Skyrim. In that game, it makes sense for stuff to be harder in the beginning because they have a pretty good skill system that is built around your progressions from zero to hero. But with for example Palworld, it does not make much sense to me. I recently also played No Man Sky and that is another game where I went into the custom games and made it so you could run as much as you wanted. The main point of No Man Sky is exploration and I don't need a stamina system to weigh me down. Oh, even in the new game Enshrouded, I didn't get the point of it. It ended up with me exploiting the game mechanics and jumping while sprinting as a way to negate the stupid stamina chore.

A bit of a rant here, but the point I am trying to bring out is that the stamina system in a game is OK if there is a point of having it. Don't just put a stamina bar in a game because it's just how everyone else does it!

Am I completely out of my mind or do you share similar thoughts? Do you have examples of games that use a stamina bar but without there being much of a point having it in there?

You're completely correct about stamina in games. In games like Palworld or No Man's Sky, where exploring is important, a stamina system appears to be more of a barrier than a useful gameplay aspect. It's OK if it serves a purpose, as in Dark Souls, but let's not include it simply because it's the usual. Customizing games to remove extraneous stamina bars and focus on the main experience makes a lot of sense, and I completely agree.

 

[Zloth]

Stamina was removed from No Man's Sky over five years ago.

 

[Brian Boru]

Stamina was removed from No Man's Sky over five years ago.

AI still has a way to go, eh!

 

[Pifanjr]

Stamina was removed from No Man's Sky over five years ago.

If it was, they just replaced it with a different timer that restricts how long you can sprint, which functions similarly to a stamina system.