PCG Article Pentagon shows off cool new UFO footage, but still says it's probably not aliens (PCG article)

[ZedClampet]

https://www.pcgamer.com/pentagon-shows-off-cool-new-ufo-footage-but-still-says-its-probably-not-aliens/

Not sure what this has to do with video games, but PC Gamer posted it, so that's good enough for me.

The problem with the alien debate is that people will say, "The universe is so big, there has to be life out there!" as if that is an argument for aliens visiting our planet.

Here's the reality. If there were 100 billion advanced civilizations in the universe, we'd almost certainly never meet any of them, ever. That's how big the universe is. The odds that one of them found us, managed to get here, and decided to play cat and mouse with us is so astronomically low that it isn't worth consideration. We should spend our time and money on other things, no matter how exciting the possibility is.

 

[Colif]

They still don't know what they are, they say they aren't adversarial and they aren't another nations, and they aren't alien... wonder if that means they know what they are but aren't telling us? Its just word games.

Also, I want more film. Much of what I have seen was shown a few years ago.

They only have 400 cases... they must have burned all the other ones? No way only 400, how wide was scope? how many years? Funny how only one they identified was a deflated balloon... so was that Roswell?

I don't know where they come from, i just know they exist. If I knew where they came from, they wouldn't be UAP or whatever they call them now.

 

[Frag Maniac]

https://www.pcgamer.com/pentagon-shows-off-cool-new-ufo-footage-but-still-says-its-probably-not-aliens/

Not sure what this has to do with video games, but PC Gamer posted it, so that's good enough for me.

The problem with the alien debate is that people will say, "The universe is so big, there has to be life out there!" as if that is an argument for aliens visiting our planet.

Here's the reality. If there were 100 billion advanced civilizations in the universe, we'd almost certainly never meet any of them, ever. That's how big the universe is. The odds that one of them found us, managed to get here, and decided to play cat and mouse with us is so astronomically low that it isn't worth consideration. We should spend our time and money on other things, no matter how exciting the possibility is.

Well it's hard to argue something that we know little about. Even if you play an odds game of number of planets that are assumed by size and distance from their sun to have a possibility of being able to support life (air, water), it would still come down to how advanced other beings are to have any idea of the likelihood of them possibly making it our way. So, basically we are limited to our own level of evolution to even ponder such things. We know what we know, and that may seem like a lot to some, but it's really our biggest limitation regarding space travel and exploration.

Let's just hope should Earthlings ever travel to and colonize Mars in our lifetimes, it doesn't turn into a total disaster as depicted in the docudrama Mars. I mean industry would no doubt play a roll, and so could competition between nations. Some would argue Human beings are too quick to kill, blame, and hate one another to be ready for such a venture. Maybe we should take care of our own planet better before we plan to travel to another one, or God forbid, talk about playing host to visiting aliens.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

If UFOs are not man-made, it's a lot more likely that they're from another dimension parallel to ours than that they're from some other planet in the galaxy somewhere.

Either that, or they're time travelers.

 

[Frindis]

We are at war yet again (or when have we not been at war?), another example of just how bad we are at communicating with each other on this beautiful planet we so choose to destroy a little slice of every day. We tend to look at EVERY other creature on this planet, small or big as less intelligent than us, with less worth. We often dictate how they should live (like domestic animals) and remove a lot of the time any mention of individuality or self-worth. So, if we treat the rest of the planet like we are the rulers, why on earth would any alien species want to visit us?

Perhaps they could teach us, make us more "humankind 2.0" to use wording from @Brian Boru. I think not. We are not going to be visited if we are not even capable of doing good to each other a bit more than how it is today. We would most likely "scare" any other intelligent species away because they would know better than to communicate with primitive humans. If they desperately wanted to visit us, it would most likely be for observation purposes only, like cataloging us. In a worst-case scenario, we'll meet a more advanced version of ourselves, one that would seek to rule over us, and see humans as just another animal to be domesticated...or worse:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3vPyhX1Pps

 

[mainer]

So, if there are no other organic life forms out there, that would make humankind the most intelligent life force in the universe (as we destroy each other and our very own planet)? That doesn't wash. We are not alone.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

So, if there are no other organic life forms out there, that would make humankind the most intelligent life force in the universe (as we destroy each other and our very own planet)? That doesn't wash. We are not alone.

The question isn't whether we are alone or not. The question is how likely is it that a civilization will be able to travel such distances to reach earth, just to buzz us. Right now, we're putting a lot of work into travelling a few million miles to Mars. And with all of that work, we don't want to just buzz it; we want to colonize it.

Even if we're not alone, I think it's more likely that UFOs are from some other parallel dimension than that they're from some planet thousands of lightyears away.

 

[Frag Maniac]

With all the paranoia and hate humans demonstrate on a daily basis, I think it would be the other way around. For all we know the US government has already thwarted attempts of aliens to peacefully communicate, and are tempting fate further trying to figure out their tech after crashing their ships and killing them.

 

[Zloth]

100 billion civilizations in the UNIVERSE would be a stunningly low number. I think that might not even be 1% of the galaxies having technologically advanced life.

Well it's hard to argue something that we know little about.

How long have you been on the internet, Frag? Perhaps you meant to state that it's hard to argue intelligently about something we know so little about.

But yeah, there's a crazy number of variables involved where we've got no clue. We would have trouble guessing what our own technology will be like a thousand years from now. It would be a stunning piece of luck if any aliens that found us were within 1,000,000 years of our tech.

Either that, or they're time travelers.

Repo Man for the win!

 

[Brian Boru]

Local Group has maybe a trillion stars, and is ~10 million light years across.
Local Supercluster Virgo's diameter is ~10 times larger.
There are ~10 million such Superclusters in the observable universe, which is estimated around 40 billion light years across— that is an unimaginably huge universe as Zed said.

Probability makes it impossible in practice for us to be the only intelligent lifeform—there's just waaay waay too much universe out there.

We have only become 'noticeable' in the last century, when we started transmitting energy signals into space. As far as I know, all such signals degrade with distance, so it must be extremely unlikely any aliens would ever noticed them as anything other than very weak incoherent static.

If we ever develop 'super signals' which can remain coherent at galactic distances, then some local Milky Way—diameter ~150K light years—aliens may notice them in say 100,000 years. Assuming they're say a billion years more advanced than us, they may send a probe for observation, which would arrive a long time after.

Of course, aliens may not survive for long periods—the universe is an extremely violent place, with events occurring which would wipe out a lot of civilizations very quickly.

My guess is it's vanishingly small probability that we've been visited, or that we will be before Humans 2.0 or 3.0 are ruling the roost here.

 

[Frag Maniac]

How long have you been on the internet, Frag? Perhaps you meant to state that it's hard to argue intelligently about something we know so little about.

But yeah, there's a crazy number of variables involved where we've got no clue. We would have trouble guessing what our own technology will be like a thousand years from now. It would be a stunning piece of luck if any aliens that found us were within 1,000,000 years of our tech.

LOL, you don't even need the internet to know most of the talk going on about such things is pure speculation. So yeah, I meant exactly that, not enough concrete evidence to go by, but honestly, I thought I made that perfectly clear. As was said by someone else though, any species intelligent enough for space travel would probably know better than to trust us at this stage of our evolution, so they may be waiting patiently if there is intelligent life out there. I'm not sure our species is the best qualified to ponder that though.

 

[ZedClampet]

So, if there are no other organic life forms out there, that would make humankind the most intelligent life force in the universe (as we destroy each other and our very own planet)? That doesn't wash. We are not alone.

That argument doesn't really make sense to me, but I agree we are not the only intelligent life in the universe. It's just that it's unlikely that we'll ever meet any other advanced civilizations because of the size of the universe. Unless, of course, there just happen to be civilizations nearby, but we've monitored the nearby areas and haven't found anything yet.

RANDOM THOUGHTS

As far as the planet goes, we just recently became advanced enough to actually impact the planet. We've noticed the impact and are working to address it. I suspect every advanced civilization in the universe probably goes through something similar. There's nothing evil about it, and it benefits nothing to say that we're literally destroying the planet via our evil ways. That's not happening. We aren't destroying it. We've changed the temperature an extremely small amount, but we didn't realize what we were doing.

The biggest thing we need to work on is population control, but when China tried it, the rest of the world called it a human rights violation, so it looks like we're not going in that direction. Without that, urban sprawl is a real problem that needs to be addressed. Birth rates in most developed countries are dropping, but it needs to be watched.

Back to the aliens, I disagree with people who think the aliens would come here but not make contact or come here to take us over. Based on our current knowledge of physics, coming here would be next to impossible from just about anywhere in the universe. So if they somehow did manage to make it here, I suspect they would want to talk instead of wasting their trip. They are very unlikely to want to drain cows of their blood and kidnap hillbilly's for anal exams. If they bother to come here, the only thing they can really want is knowledge, and the best way to get that is through communication. I guarantee that anyone advanced enough to get here won't be afraid of us. Anyway, in a universe this vast, there are no unique resources on our planet. If they wanted resources they could go somewhere with no advanced species where they won't be bothered while they take what they need. (And don't, please don't, start up with the alien fertility nonsense. They don't need us to make baby aliens. That's ridiculous.)

And there is zero reason to want to take us over. They don't need slaves. They don't need us at all. This sounds stupid, but it's true: Humans are only a decade or two away from making robots with advanced AI that will be superior to humans, so I don't expect that Aliens will be all that impressed with humans. Maybe they'll want our robots (just kidding, they'll have their own), but all we really have is human history. Our stories. I can't see them wanting anything more than that.

I just don't think that Aliens who can make it here can be evil. If humans were just slightly more evil, there wouldn't be any of us left, and I assume that applies to any species anywhere. Every civilization is going to reach a point where they have the ability to destroy themselves. If they don't, that's a very good sign.

 

[Brian Boru]

Good stuff!

They don't need us to make baby aliens. That's ridiculous

But… but… what if they had to wear tight underwear during cryostasis on the trip here, without realizing its effects?

The biggest thing we need to work on is population control

I think consumerism is a bigger problem. The amount of waste we generate in the West, and other areas are catching up. Add in the unnecessary, and it's no wonder some of us consume 10+ times the resources that others do.

Population has a proven limiter—economic advancement. Let's hope this century is the one where it becomes almost certain that a baby will get to old age, unless humans kill it. That'll remove the main insecurity incentive to have lots of kids.

Otherwise I agree with your observations

 

[ZedClampet]

Good stuff!

But… but… what if they had to wear tight underwear during cryostasis on the trip here, without realizing its effects?


I think consumerism is a bigger problem. The amount of waste we generate in the West, and other areas are catching up. Add in the unnecessary, and it's no wonder some of us consume 10+ times the resources that others do.

Population has a proven limiter—economic advancement. Let's hope this century is the one where it becomes almost certain that a baby will get to old age, unless humans kill it. That'll remove the main insecurity incentive to have lots of kids.

Otherwise I agree with your observations

I mostly agree, but I think we just need a better way to deal with waste. And, um, a healthy replacement for plastic, which is going to be a tall order. Either that, or we could really commit to recycling everything, which is probably the best option. America became obsessed with waste in the 70's when New York/New Jersey fought over landfills, but there really isn't anything wrong with a landfill. They can even be used to generate energy, as they are massive sources of methane gas. Right now we are escalating LFG (landfill gas) programs around the country to recapture this buried energy. It looks like it is going to be one of our big success stories in reducing greenhouse gasses.

And I am utterly sick of consumerism, but the thing about consumerism is that without it, if we all just bought mostly what we needed, the world would be plunged into a massive depression of unimaginable scope. The entire world's economy is driven by consumerism, and unless we become willing to take billions off the payrolls and support them through public funds, which would cause the value of a dollar to be approximately nothing, then we would see an unprecedented human tragedy that would almost certainly lead to wars, probably world wars, possibly nuclear wars. I think it would be better just to recycle everything when we are done with it. In any event, you couldn't stop consumerism anyway. Half the country thought wearing a mask during covid was stripping them of their freedom. Imagine if you try to take their crap away; they will literally kill you. That's not a joke. They will kill you.

Perhaps the metaverse will save us, as everything we'll buy will be digital.

 

[Brian Boru]

LFG (landfill gas) programs

Huh, I hadn't heard of those, interesting.

support them through public funds

That seems like a Q of when, not if. We're coming close—maybe in 30s, if not probably 40s—to a time when a perfect storm of converging techs—AI, robotics, machine learning, automation, cloud computing, 3D printing?—will enable a large swathe of consumer goods to be made very cheaply.

I read years ago that some consumer appliances are now 1/10th the adjusted cost of what they were 60 years ago. I expect a similar cost slash in next decades.

Not just manufacturing. Transport is low-hanging fruit, as are many admin-type jobs like legal, accounting, medicine, customer service. Multi-storey farming looks interesting, as does automated food prep.

This era of full employment is a blip in the history of human endeavor, we will probably return to something more like the artisan lifestyle which served us for thousands of years up to recently. However, we should thank full employment for getting us beyond itself, it was a necessary step.

There is also the looming climate change crisis—I was just reading about a town in Wales which was told it won't be inhabitable beyond 2050, so it's not only the third world which is taking the hit. Once it gets bad enough that even the Luddites can't ignore it, there will be some major shifts in consumption patterns—how that shakes out remains to be seen.

if you try to take their crap away; they will literally kill you

They already do, without taking anything away—at least in USA where we have a mass shooting more than once a day—thankfully not all fatal.

The anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers came around somewhat when they figured out it was all their own people who were dying, so all is not definitely lost. But yeah, it's a worry, change does not bring out the best in people, that's for sure.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Back to the aliens, I disagree with people who think the aliens would come here but not make contact or come here to take us over. Based on our current knowledge of physics, coming here would be next to impossible from just about anywhere in the universe. So if they somehow did manage to make it here, I suspect they would want to talk instead of wasting their trip. They are very unlikely to want to drain cows of their blood and kidnap hillbilly's for anal exams. If they bother to come here, the only thing they can really want is knowledge, and the best way to get that is through communication. I guarantee that anyone advanced enough to get here won't be afraid of us. Anyway, in a universe this vast, there are no unique resources on our planet. If they wanted resources they could go somewhere with no advanced species where they won't be bothered while they take what they need. (And don't, please don't, start up with the alien fertility nonsense. They don't need us to make baby aliens. That's ridiculous.)

That's some of the stuff I was trying to point out, too. If they went to all of that trouble to travel such distances, they wouldn't do that to just buzz us and do anal probes. They would make some kind of contact. And you make a lot of other good points, too.

I pretty firmly believe that even if there is life on other planets, UFOs that we see here are either manmade or transdimensional beings from a parallel dimension.

They already do, without taking anything away—at least in USA where we have a mass shooting more than once a day—thankfully not all fatal.

To be fair, there are shootings every day, but there are not mass shootings every day. Mass shootings are a completely different thing. I've talked to people from around the world who are terrified to come to the US because they think the entire country is like Escape From New York all the time. It's not all like that.

And to be fair about the shooting thing, last year Chicago had the most homicides in the US, with 739 homicides. And that's a city where guns are completely banned.

 

[mainer]

That argument doesn't really make sense to me, but I agree we are not the only intelligent life in the universe. It's just that it's unlikely that we'll ever meet any other advanced civilizations because of the size of the universe. Unless, of course, there just happen to be civilizations nearby, but we've monitored the nearby areas and haven't found anything yet.

I wasn't trying to make an argument, it was just stating my belief that in all that vast universe, there has to be some type of organic lifeform that has more intelligence that humankind. I don't see us as being the pinnacle on an intelligence scale. I think we've all been heavily influenced over the years by sci-fi books, movies, and games; that any conjecture as to what life is out there and what they'd do if our paths crossed is just guessing.

I do, however, feel strongly that humanity is on a downward spiral with the violence, wars, pollution, bigotry, and political ineptness. Can humankind change things? Of course. We have the ability, but it's going to take a worldwide effort. But with my over-active imagination, as I also see a future similar to the sci-fi movie Elysium, where only the rich and powerful have access to a clean and stable living environment (sci-fi movie influence there):

View: https://youtu.be/oIBtePb-dGY

 

[Frag Maniac]

I've talked to people from around the world who are terrified to come to the US because they think the entire country is like Escape From New York all the time.

Sounds like what communist dictators "teach" their citizens, and yet people say our education system is bad.

 

[Brian Boru]

there are not mass shootings every day

Not a topic we want to delve into here, so if you have a reply, we'll leave it at that

List for 2022

people from around the world who are terrified to come to the US

If they're from advanced countries, these charts should make clear why they're terrified. USA is 'out there' on a per capita basis when it comes to gun stuff.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Not a topic we want to delve into here, so if you have a reply, we'll leave it at that

My only response is that I stand corrected. Interesting data.

 

[Brian Boru]

humanity is on a downward spiral

Various analyses and articles I've read over the years all agree that now is the best time in history to be alive, that we've improved the human condition hugely in the past century.
BBC

people say our education system is bad

Assuming you mean USA's, it's not bad—it typically ranks 15-20th in the world rankings, which is pretty good.

Of course, that's the school system. If you take a broader view of education—eg that it's what begins after you leave school—then I'm not aware of any comparative rankings.

 

[Frag Maniac]

Assuming you mean USA's, it's not bad—it typically ranks 15-20th in the world rankings, which is pretty good.

Yes I mean USA, and I really don't think 15th to 20th range is anywhere near good considering how technologically developed we are. It also depends how such studies are done. You need to take into account ALL schools, and many in this country are pretty bad, partly due to under funding.

 

[Brian Boru]

depends how such studies are done

The PISA study from the OECD is the most credible one I know of for international comparisons.

considering how technologically developed we are

I don't know to what degree tech dev affects education—there would typically be a lot of correlation, but causation… dunno.

 

[Pifanjr]

If they bother to come here, the only thing they can really want is knowledge, and the best way to get that is through communication.

I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second. Any civilization that can expend the energy to come over here probably has no needs they cannot easily fulfil. They would not need anything of us, the only thing we would be good for is to be an interesting phenomenon to study and observe.

I would also assume any such alien is immortal too, so it's not like they would have any hurry establishing contact as opposed to just watching us. And if we are not the only intelligent species in the universe, such an alien species has probably seen countless of other intelligent civilizations in various eras of technological advancement and has some kind of standardised protocol for what to do when discovering a new one. Which I would guess would include not just interacting with it immediately (and for an immortal being, "immediately" can easily mean thousands of years).

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second. Any civilization that can expend the energy to come over here probably has no needs they cannot easily fulfil. They would not need anything of us, the only thing we would be good for is to be an interesting phenomenon to study and observe.

Here's another possibility. Imagine if you had a Tesla and went on a trip a couple of states over. You'd have to plan your trip around charging the battery along the way.

Now imagine these aliens are coming from 10 lightyears away, and their destination is a place that is yet another 10 lightyears away. For some reason, their ships get the best mileage out of a fuel created from pureed brain matter. So they find our planet, dip down, snatch up an abductee or two to refuel, and then they're on their way.