Gaming is becoming less interesting to me and here is why.

[ipman]

Yes I posted a video of the Intel cards with updated drivers to handle pre-DX12. But although cheap the Intel cards are only mid range, I think.

I was just watching vid about TSMC who make most of the high end chips. They are part way through building a new foundry Fab in Arizona in order to meet demand.

Also considering that Nvidia cards are Taiwanese and the amount of high end electronics designed and produced there, it's significance politically is clear.

Yes It's freezing here in UK at present. I might head off to a desert region in a game.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Beating out the RTX 3060 is not too shabby for a first try. Makes sense to go for the meat of the market anyway.

I think Nvidia used Samsung for the 3000 series, but 4000 is on TSMC again. As far as I know from a surface level they are the people to beat at the moment. I did see the news around TSMC's new facility and the fact it was subsidized.

-10 incoming and a half metre more snow on the way this week, its beautiful here.

 

[Brian Boru]

its beautiful here

How can you tell? Everything's white…

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

How can you tell? Everything's white…

Its either all white or all green here depending on the time of the year. No complaints either way.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

In 2011 the fastest Nvidia card available was the GTX 580 for 499 (650 adjusted for inflation today). In 2012 we got the GTX 680, which was really the mid range chip of that architecture for 499, followed by the 'GTX Titan' for 1000 a while later.

Well, you did make one good point that I never really consider when I'm whining about how much more GPUs cost: inflation. And inflation today is really more than I realized.

So I've complained about how I bought a GTX 1070 new for $375 when they came out, and today, the same tier RTX 3070 costs a minimum of $569. That's almost $200 more. But when I calculated inflation, $375 from 2016 equals around $465 by today's standards. So figuring that in, it's really only around $100 more, instead of $200 more.

It's so crazy that inflation has risen that much in 6.5 years.

 

[ipman]

Beating out the RTX 3060 is not too shabby for a first try. Makes sense to go for the meat of the market anyway.

I think Nvidia used Samsung for the 3000 series, but 4000 is on TSMC again. As far as I know from a surface level they are the people to beat at the moment. I did see the news around TSMC's new facility and the fact it was subsidized.

-10 incoming and a half metre more snow on the way this week, its beautiful here.

It just shows that moaning about graphic card prices is one thing, but it goes to situations where Western companies relied on Eastern countries for production of everything except food.

Cost of labour, cost of land, building infrastructure to supply factory(heavy on water use) and getting through all the planning regulations meant chip production shifted to Taiwan.

Now they have to heavily subsidise TSMC to build a factory in US. Plus China are watching. Those chips are used in everything including military hardware.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Well, you did make one good point that I never really consider when I'm whining about how much more GPUs cost: inflation. And inflation today is really more than I realized.

So I've complained about how I bought a GTX 1070 new for $375 when they came out, and today, the same tier RTX 3070 costs a minimum of $569. That's almost $200 more. But when I calculated inflation, $375 from 2016 equals around $465 by today's standards. So figuring that in, it's really only around $100 more, instead of $200 more.

It's so crazy that inflation has risen that much in 6.5 years.

Well, if I made some bad points feel free to call them out

Sucks to get fleeced is all. Youre right in that while top end prices are through the roof, mid range prices are fairly tame in comparison. Still bad though, by only inflation that 560Ti/3070 tier of card in 2010 today would have cost $340. Your 1070 would have been about $275

It just shows that moaning about graphic card prices is one thing, but it goes to situations where Western companies relied on Eastern countries for production of everything except food.

Cost of labour, cost of land, building infrastructure to supply factory(heavy on water use) and getting through all the planning regulations meant chip production shifted to Taiwan.

Now they have to heavily subsidise TSMC to build a factory in US. Plus China are watching. Those chips are used in everything including military hardware.

Nothing wrong with a moan, its relevant to the thread and good to be aware of these things IMO.

I hear you, its a bad situation all around. Supply issues aside though people should know Nvidia were taking advantage long before geopolitics was having so much effect on the electronic business as a whole. Now its on top of the artificial prestige value add, I'm not sure the market will support that level of cost for much longer, especially as we head potentially into recession. Fingers crossed for more competition and price drops going forwards, and obviously peace and goodwill to all etc.

I seem to remember that Nvidia makes double the revenue they make on consumer GPU's from datacentre, not sure how the prices rises compare over there, or how the size of that market compares to 12 years ago, I assume its much bigger as profits sky rocketed.

 

[Brian Boru]

$375 from 2016 equals around $465 by today's standards

I'm feeling picky, so $442.02 may be closer

 

[mainer]

PC does a lot of other fun stuff, and you can mess with them much more.

Technical aspects between PCs & consoles aside, one of the things that sets the PC apart from consoles when it comes to gaming, is the ability to mod our games. Mods can breathe new life into an old game and make it fun to play again. I believe that there are some games for consoles that allow modding (I know Fallout 4 was one), there just isn't the volume and variety in the mods that you'll find available when gaming on a PC.

 

[Brian Boru]

some games for consoles that allow modding

Oh interesting, the upgrade of consoles continues, that's very encouraging. The sooner there's a real specialized PC for gaming, the better for everyone.

Just for interest, how would console mods be installed? Do consolers—such a good term, don't you think? —have good access to folders and files now?

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Technical aspects between PCs & consoles aside, one of the things that sets the PC apart from consoles when it comes to gaming, is the ability to mod our games. Mods can breathe new life into an old game and make it fun to play again. I believe that there are some games for consoles that allow modding (I know Fallout 4 was one), there just isn't the volume and variety in the mods that you'll find available when gaming on a PC.

Thats one part of the fun stuff yup. Also emulation of old games, hobby stuff like Folding@home or BOINC, making music, editing videos on and on

If you just wanna play newer games though, console a good deal.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Well, if I made some bad points feel free to call them out

Haha. You didn't make any bad points. I guess I just said it like that because the one thing I pulled out was probably contradictory to your overall point.

I'm feeling picky, so $442.02 may be closer

Huh. I don't remember where it was, but I used a different calculator that said $464.xx. That just shows me that these calculators are probably not accurate.

Just for interest, how would console mods be installed? Do consolers—such a good term, don't you think? —have good access to folders and files now?

No, it's automatic. I've dabbled in Skyrim for Xbox. There is just a place in the menu that takes you to something like a mod store, where you can choose which mods you want, and it automatically installs them for you. Not every mod for PC works on Xbox, but it's getting pretty robust.

 

[ipman]

No, it's automatic. I've dabbled in Skyrim for Xbox. There is just a place in the menu that takes you to something like a mod store, where you can choose which mods you want, and it automatically installs them for you. Not every mod for PC works on Xbox, but it's getting pretty robust.

Was that the mods that Bethesda started supplying after seeing how popular modding was?

So it seems what we need to buy is a console that can be worked using a KB & M

Controllers I only use where there is a trigger that allows for controlled acceleration of vehicles.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Haha. You didn't make any bad points.

Theres a first!

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Was that the mods that Bethesda started supplying after seeing how popular modding was?

So it seems what we need to buy is a console that can be worked using a KB & M

Controllers I only use where there is a trigger that allows for controlled acceleration of vehicles.

I'm not sure if Bethesda picks and chooses, but most of the mods are fan-made.

And I'm really not trying to shill here, but you can use K&M with an Xbox. I've never tried it for anything other than the web browser, though. I think possibly that games have to be made to have that option. There are quite a few that do support them for controls, but not every game does.

 

[Brian Boru]

That just shows me that these calculators are probably not accurate

No, they just use different methods—there are many factors involved in calculating inflation, so different calcs will use different approaches.

It's like calculating unemployment rates. Here in the US, our reported methods underplay the numbers, while in EU [and maybe elsewhere, dunno] they have a different approach.

 

[ipman]

I'm not sure if Bethesda picks and chooses, but most of the mods are fan-made.

And I'm really not trying to shill here, but you can use K&M with an Xbox. I've never tried it for anything other than the web browser, though. I think possibly that games have to be made to have that option. There are quite a few that do support them for controls, but not every game does.

Maybe Bethesda just gave players the Mods option without going to external sources, incorporating it into the game more. I used mods in Skyrim but haven't played for a while.

That does seem to be a good option, for those on a budget, or like the OP.

I didn't realise you could use M&KB with X box. It seems you need the controller as well to set it up, but then it works with many games. It's definitely an option.

 

[Colif]

Since I bought a new GPU today, I guess I will have to find a game to play next year. So games might get my interest again... I spent last 6 months planning to buy a GPU that now I have one I will have to find something to play. Guess I don't have it yet, its on pre order so I won't get it much before Xmas. Its not the best card you could have got yesterday but I was asleep when it showed on website and they didn't last long enough for me to see them. This seems to have been problem everywhere.

I could have waited, but after 6 months it was like... just do it already. So I will get https://www.powercolor.com/product?id=1668741687 some time next week.

After watching reviews I realised I don't buy GPU based on what other people do. I probably didn't need one but I wanted one... its not like me to want anything. I wanted to retire my current GPU before it dies. I wanted to do that with my last one too but it literally started to die the week I got current PC. My only spare GPU is a GTX 960 and its just not good enough. There were other reasons but only one was to make games better - being able to run monitor at 144hz and native Freesync support

 

[mainer]

I could have waited, but after 6 months it was like... just do it already. So I will get https://www.powercolor.com/product?id=1668741687 some time next week.

I tried your link but I get a "Hmm...Can't Reach This Page" error, so I'm not sure what card you got. If you'd saved your money, you might have been able to get this one !
One of the last EVGA GPUs to ever be made is currently going for $9,500 at a charity auction | PC Gamer

 

[Colif]

Weird, you not only one who can't access that page

PowerColor Red Devil RX 7900 XT Specs

AMD Navi 31, 2534 MHz, 5376 Cores, 336 TMUs, 192 ROPs, 20480 MB GDDR6, 2500 MHz, 320 bit

www.techpowerup.com

9500? thats cheap, thats the price a 5090 will be in Australia if Nvidia aren't slapped around a bit.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

@Colif Nice! Congrats on the new 7900 XT. That's going to be awesome!

 

[Brian Boru]

I get a "Hmm...Can't Reach This Page" error

Still the same:

@Colif I assume you can reach it? So it's likely the connection from rear end of world to civilization which is having a problem 🙃

 

[Shodan_]

Gaming is becoming less interesting to me because I don't find the gamification systems of real life activities appealing anymore.

The gameplay padding aspect of giving a different name to an already existing mechanic is now so transparent it's borderline insulting. They call it "new content" or a "new feature" but in the end it's really nothing.

The most egregious example of this in recent years is the concept of "crafting" being added in seemingly every game.

"They added crafting to Snowrunner" except they really didn't. It's another fetch quest with a different name and one more PRESS A prompt at the end of it. You didn't "craft" sht. You just drove back and forth some more on the same road you're gonna be driving clearing out this map. Also, in Snowrunner you don't "Build a gold mine" by using your cranes to place beams on a ghost blueprint of a building or anything, you drove in a square, you pressed a button and it built itself.

"They added crafting to Tomb Raider", no they didn't. You're pressing A in front of twigs like you press A in front of gun ammo except you have to press A a few more times to transform twigs into arrows. Please skip the bull and put boxes of fricking arrows around. You're wasting my time picking up twigs and calling it crafting. I can "craft" 12 arrows in the time it takes an enemy to reload an AK between 300 rpm bursts of gunfire directly at my face. Stop it.

It adds nothing in terms of gameplay except more time doing the same thing you did before.

It's extremely lame and it's burning me out of most mainstream games because these concepts are reskinned and shared across the whole industry and next thing you know games are now 80$ and padded to the gills with mountains of "content" that amounts to literally nothing.

Games need to know what they want to be and do that. If you're not going to have crafting on the level of Kerbal Space Program then don't bother. Just make Kerbal Space Program and stop wasting my time. It would be easier and better for Kerbal Space Program to introduce fetch quests then for a game of fetch quests to bother with "crafting".

If your "survival elements" only amount to some progress bars you have to nurse for the whole game then trim the fat and skip it entirely.

Don't charge me 30$ more and call it a new mechanic or a feature if all there is to it is me running around picking up multiple things, only for a single item to spawn in a backpack after pressing a button with some fancy text. This isn't a feature, and it isn't "content"...You wasted my time and charged me for it.

Let's say I have to pick up herbs, cloth, string, bugs and actually fire up a pot, crush the bugs, cook he herbs, stir everything up manually then spread this gross slop on a piece of cloth and call it a bandage then sure, I crafted it myself and that's better but is it going to be fun doing that a hundred time? Probably not. As a designer are you going to spend the time figuring out an appealing and fun middle ground between pressing a button and doing what I described above repeatedly? no? Your Jira board is already overflowing? Then don't bother adding "crafting" into your game.

These days I mostly play heavily skill based games (racing, physics based, Immersive Sims) or stripped down stories like Abzu or Journey with one button because these are the games where the art of game making actually shines the most and is not some trendy industry gimmick being recycled half assed for the millionth time.

 

[Colif]

Abzu is less of a game than Journey.

Okay, thats mianly based on multi player, or lack there of in Abzu

Journey I played... too many times. Abzu, I played about 4 times to get all the trophies. It just wasn't the same.

Sure, don't want all games to be the same but when one follows the other, you can assume.

 

[Zloth]

Let's see, of the 14 main games I've been playing this year... X4 has a very small crafting system*, Subnautica: Below Zero has one that's quite fun, and Mechwarrior 5 did because I modded it in. Oh, and Horizon: Zero Dawn certainly did. That one was silly - they put harvestable stuff EVERYWHERE!

The AAA action-adventure games do seem to have a "checklist fixation" - every game seems to require a crafting system. That still leaves many other genres that don't.

* unless you call building space stations 'crafting.' You're taking a bunch of stuff and putting it together to make something, so maybe, even though the something is huge.