Gaming is becoming less interesting to me and here is why.

[Colif]

Nvidia won't drop the prices of their top cards until AMD can beat them in RT.
right now the 7900 xtx beats the 4080 in raster but not in RT. It is better value for money though.
7900 xt is just below the 4080 but is also $400 cheaper

Supply is likely to a problem for AMD initially. Unless reports of small numbers are just a smoke screen.

it might be the next generation that troubles Nvidia more.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Its because you are getting older and the older you get the more you do other stuff other than gaming

I just turned 50 this year. I know I'm still a young pup compared to some of you, but I'm still getting to be a decrepit old man. Lol.

Anyway, I thought I had the same problem for a while. I went many years only completing one or maybe two games in a year. But this past spring, I got Game Pass, and I've played more games this year than I have in the past several years combined. Sometimes, I think I'm playing games too much. (I am getting my work and responsibilities done, though. Haha)

I'm just saying that when we're older adults, it's still possible to go through cycles. There might come a time when that draw for gaming comes back more than you think.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Nvidia won't drop the prices of their top cards until AMD can beat them in RT.
right now the 7900 xtx beats the 4080 in raster but not in RT. It is better value for money though.
7900 xt is just below the 4080 but is also $400 cheaper

Supply is likely to a problem for AMD initially. Unless reports of small numbers are just a smoke screen.

it might be the next generation that troubles Nvidia more.

How far behind do they clock with RT?

 

[Ryzengang]

Early this year, I was considering finally upgrading my 1080. It didn't work out for me to do that, but I was close enough that I was seriously weighing all my options. Where I was at with AMD is that I really wanted to buy one of their video cards, because they're definitely a bigger bang for your buck. But the main hang-up is that they just don't do RT stuff as well, and that was important to me. If they could catch up in that arena, it would be no question of who to go with.

For sure, I think there are perfectly valid reasons to not go AMD (I could've had more nuance on that point in my original post). I can't really argue with wanting the better RT performance. I have an RTX 3080 and enjoy ray tracing, so I certainly appreciate the extra capability vs the 6800 XT. But I also got my 3080 near launch for MSRP and the market was in a completely different state. In the current market it's hard to justify buying most Nvidia cards given AMD's aggressive pricing. I do suspect we'll see price drops on the 40 series as 30 series stock is offloaded, though. I'm not sure that Nvidia can keep the 4080 at $1200 MSRP long-term. Still, even with a price drop it's hard to foresee the 4080 being a compelling card. Even with a $200 price cut, $1000 still seems pretty excessive.

 

[Colif]

How far behind do they clock with RT?

we need to wait till Tuesday for more tests to come out, so far its all based on 1 test that was leaked
Yesterday was unboxing reveal day but no tests released yet. So far only 2 card makers have shown what they have to point its on their websites. Asus & Asrock.

Maker	Model	Web link	3 x 8 pins	PSU
AMD	7900 XTX	https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-7900xtx	2 pins	800​
Asrock	Aqua	ASRock Radeon RX 7900 XTX AQUA 24GB OC <b>Clock: GPU / Memory</b>, Boost Clock<span style=color:red;>*</span>: Up to 2680 MHz / 20 Gbps, Game Clock<span style=color:red;>*</span><span style=color:red;>*</span>: 2510 MHz / 20 Gbps<br /><b>Key Specifications</b>, AMD Radeon™ RX 7900 XTX GPU, 24GB GDDR6 on 384-Bit Memory Bus, 96 AMD... www.asrock.com	yes	1000​
Asrock	Phantom	ASRock Radeon RX 7900 XTX Phantom Gaming 24GB OC <b>Clock: GPU / Memory</b>, Boost Clock<span style=color:red;>*</span>: Up to 2615MHz / 20Gbps, Game Clock<span style=color:red;>*</span><span style=color:red;>*</span>: 2455MHz / 20Gbps<br /><b>Key Specifications</b>, AMD Radeon™ RX 7900 XTX GPU, 24GB GDDR6 on 384-Bit Memory Bus, 96 AMD RDNA™ 3... www.asrock.com	yes	1000​
Asus	TUF Gaming OC	ASUS TUF Gaming Radeon RX 7900 XTX OC Edition 24GB GDDR6 | Graphics Card| ASUS Global TUF Gaming graphics cards add hefty 3D horsepower to the TUF Gaming ecosystem, with features like Auto-Extreme manufacturing, steel backplates, high-tech fans, and IP5X certifications. And it’s all backed by a rigorous battery of validation tests to ensure compatibility with the latest TUF... www.asus.com	yes	1000​
Asus	TUF Gaming	ASUS TUF Gaming Radeon RX 7900 XTX 24GB GDDR6 | Graphics Card| ASUS Global TUF Gaming graphics cards add hefty 3D horsepower to the TUF Gaming ecosystem, with features like Auto-Extreme manufacturing, steel backplates, high-tech fans, and IP5X certifications. And it’s all backed by a rigorous battery of validation tests to ensure compatibility with the latest TUF... www.asus.com	yes	850​

Announced so far, but who is counting
Yes, I do have a spreadsheet, and yes, I also had one for 7900 XT as although I would like an XTX I suspect I just get an XT

 

[ipman]

It does seem a bit much when one component now cost more than a whole gaming PC did. I just read the chip shortage is set to ease, but the demand is ever increasing. Some car production has stopped.

Maybe the best approach is check the recommended specs for games you want to play and buy accordingly. Total upgrade every 5-10 years.

@Colif great comparison chart above

 

[Colif]

The main reason I want a new GPU is to be able to run my display at 1440p at 144hz in games, right now without reducing settings I can only get 100.
So be nice to use my screen fully, and use resizable bar, and have a GPU that matches my Freesync monitor.
I don't really care about 4k gaming. or RT or having the best of anything...

Maker	Model	Web link	3 x 8 pins	PSU
AMD	Reference 7900XT	https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-7900xt	2 8 pins	750watt
Asrock	7900XT Taichi OC	ASRock Radeon RX 7900 XT Taichi 20GB OC <b>Clock: GPU / Memory</b>, Boost Clock<span style=color:red;>*</span>: Up to 2560 MHz / 20 Gbps, Game Clock<span style=color:red;>*</span><span style=color:red;>*</span>: 2220 MHz / 20 Gbps<br /><b>Key Specification</b>, AMD Radeon™ RX 7900 XT GPU, 20GB GDDR6 on 320-Bit Memory Bus, 84 AMD RDNA™... www.asrock.com	Yes	800w
Asrock	7900XT Phantom Gaming OC	ASRock Radeon RX 7900 XT Phantom Gaming 20GB OC <b>Clock: GPU / Memory</b>, Boost Clock<span style=color:red;>*</span>: Up to 2450MHz / 20Gbps, Game Clock<span style=color:red;>*</span><span style=color:red;>*</span>: 2075MHz / 20Gbps<br /><b>Key Specification</b>, AMD Radeon™ RX 7900 XT GPU, 20GB GDDR6 on 320-Bit Memory Bus, 84 AMD RDNA™ 3... www.asrock.com	Yes	750w
Asus	TUF Gaming RX 7900XT OC Edition	https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/graphics-cards/tuf-gaming/tuf-rx7900xt-o20g-gaming/	Yes	750watt
Asus	TUF Gaming RX 7900XT	ASUS TUF Gaming Radeon RX 7900 XT 20GB GDDR6 | Graphics Card| ASUS Global TUF Gaming graphics cards add hefty 3D horsepower to the TUF Gaming ecosystem, with features like Auto-Extreme manufacturing, steel backplates, high-tech fans, and IP5X certifications. And it’s all backed by a rigorous battery of validation tests to ensure compatibility with the latest TUF... www.asus.com	Yes	750watt
Gigabyte	GV-R79XT	3 cards registered, gaming, gaming OC, 20GC	unknown

slaps unfurl with colgeeks hammer
I long for the day all GPU can do same quality graphics and games companies can stop reselling old games with better graphics and actually have to make the games fun again.

 

[mainer]

Regarding pre-mades, don't count them out too fast. They have to pay people to build the PCs, obviously, but they don't have to pay scalper prices. Instead, they can buy in bulk. And they won't send them back to the card maker because they didn't realize the card wouldn't physically fit in the case, either.

I absolutely agree. I'm not as tech savvy as many of you gamers here, and I'm also not confident enough in my abilities to build & configure my own PC, even though it may be the least expensive way. (Yes, I know there are multiple guides & videos). There are benefits to buying a prebuilt PC, like as @Zloth mentioned, components can often be less expensive.

There can be other benefits as well, depending upon where you buy the PC. Parts and labor warranty, 24/7 tech support, free shipping, and the ability to choose the components you want installed.

 

[Colif]

Is it pre built if you can choose all the parts? Thats more a custom job.
Stores here will build a PC based on the parts they stock. That is next best thing to making it yourself.

Added bonus is if say a set of ram is bad, store can just swap in another set... no waiting to rma the set or send it back to shop for replacement. They test them before shipping. A friend of mine has done that for last 4 PC.

But pre mades where its just stored in a warehouse for 6 months before being shipped out, no thanks. I don't want factory line production... or I just buy an Apple.

 

[Zloth]

I just turned 50 this year. I know I'm still a young pup compared to some of you, but I'm still getting to be a decrepit old man. Lol.

(Zloth toasts WoodenSaucer's 50th birthday with a big glass of Gatorade that has a bottle of Mirilax mixed in) Cheers!!

 

[Colif]

Its just a number... I always get my age wrong and its only last month of year I am right again, until pattern starts again.

 

[Slasken]

I would argue that PC-gaming is not that expensive, at least not more expensive than it was in the past. Also PC gaming is a lot more than just the newest AAA titles.

Parts last longer now. My daughter has a 8,5 years old CPU with 7,5 years old GPU, and doesn't have any problems playing PC games. Back in the day when PC gaming was supposedly "cheaper" those parts lasted 2-3 years before they were obsolete.

You don't need to buy the most expensive parts to game at 1080p if you are aiming at 60fps. An RTX 2070 will do fine if you want some eye candy, and an RTX2060 will do fine if you are willing to adjust down somewhat. The GTX 970 and 1060 (6GB) are still OK cards to game with.

You don't need a really fast CPU for 60fps gaming either.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

The ropey-from-the-start CPU's of the last gen consoles helped CPU's last longer for gaming. The new console gen is starting to shake things up, with games coming out already requiring 6 core CPU's those old Intel tick tock cycle chips from 2700k up to 7700Kare starting to struggle in new AAA. The delay of the market moving to new gen console has added an extra couple of years to it though.

With consoles basically being custom PC's now, there will probably be another lull after that order is established until the next console gen, if there is one.

Still games are way cheaper on PC with sales, and its true you dont need to buy the halo parts to play games.

Still totally agree with OP that Nvidia/AMD GPU pricing at the top end is and has been horrible even before the pandemic and supply issues They tried it on with the Titans and people bought into it more and more, so its not going away.

 

[Colif]

consoles are more like pre made PC where you get very little choices. What IBM wishes they had nailed down with original PC before other people copied ideas. Until you can replace the GPU in them, they just a waste of money long term

1000's of games out there that are fun to play that don't need top tier gpu to play them.
But people have to have the new shiney even if you can't see the difference... just knowing there is one is enough for some people. FOMO sells

 

[ipman]

I absolutely agree. I'm not as tech savvy as many of you gamers here, and I'm also not confident enough in my abilities to build & configure my own PC, even though it may be the least expensive way. (Yes, I know there are multiple guides & videos). There are benefits to buying a prebuilt PC, like as @Zloth mentioned, components can often be less expensive.

There can be other benefits as well, depending upon where you buy the PC. Parts and labor warranty, 24/7 tech support, free shipping, and the ability to choose the components you want installed.

I think it's totally consumer choice. If you've got time to build it yourself and feel confident, have fun!

Most companies let you choose the components you want, and like you say they come with guarantees, support, etc. I paid the company I used £60 to build it, set it up, test it and ship it. What I'd like as well is that the tech team just help more, give feedback on the components and offer advice prior to build.

As everyone knows a number of factors have caused the GPU price boom; everything from crypto mining, to Covid hitting supply chains, lack of chips and two major companies holding the monopoly. Nvidia being worth about $400 Bn and AMD about half that.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

It does seem a bit much when one component now cost more than a whole gaming PC did. I just read the chip shortage is set to ease, but the demand is ever increasing. Some car production has stopped.

I think it's getting better, though. I used to work in the car manufacturing industry, but it's been like 17 years ago. So I don't really know things from that perspective anymore. But last year at this time, car lots all over my state were very barren, and it was hard to find a car to buy. Today, they're all full of cars again. So something must be changing for the better.

I absolutely agree. I'm not as tech savvy as many of you gamers here, and I'm also not confident enough in my abilities to build & configure my own PC, even though it may be the least expensive way. (Yes, I know there are multiple guides & videos). There are benefits to buying a prebuilt PC, like as @Zloth mentioned, components can often be less expensive.

There can be other benefits as well, depending upon where you buy the PC. Parts and labor warranty, 24/7 tech support, free shipping, and the ability to choose the components you want installed.

It's true that during the pandemic scalping days, you could get a prebuilt with a decent GPU for less money than you could buy the GPU, itself. But I think those days are over now, since the prices have come back down to normal. I did notice that it's a little harder to find a video card right now, probably because of the Christmas season. But overall, things are cheaper than they were.

But you do have a great point on the warranty thing. If you build your own, you're responsible for troubleshooting which part isn't working, and sorting through warranties on all your parts to deal with it. But if you buy a prebuilt, and something goes wrong, the company will figure it out for you.

(Zloth toasts WoodenSaucer's 50th birthday with a big glass of Gatorade that has a bottle of Mirilax mixed in) Cheers!!

Haha. Thanks, man! Yeah, I experienced that kind of Gatorade a little over a month ago. It wasn't the first time, though. Almost 12 years ago, I had diverticulitis so bad that my colon ruptured. I had several colonoscopies back then. This time, I had an upper endoscopy, too. Next week, I'm having surgery for a hiatal hernia. This surgery should go much more smoothly than the last one.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

consoles are more like pre made PC where you get very little choices. What IBM wishes they had nailed down with original PC before other people copied ideas. Until you can replace the GPU in them, they just a waste of money long term

If youre the kind of person who mainly plays Indies, and Assassins Creed or Fallout type open world 3d action games, and you dont care about mouse and keyboard then 500-600 is a pretty good deal for a gaming system with something between a Ryzen 3700X and 5700X CPU and a Radeon 5700 equivalent GPU plus an NVME drive and console optimization. You cant build something as powerful as a console for near that price at the moment.

In a couple of years that will change a bit, but still its a good deal. You wont have to upgrade it for maybe 8 years and every game released on it should work pretty well even then. PC has many other things going for it, but not fair to say consoles are a waste of money.

Not that it really matters, but is Steam Deck a console or a PC? Tempted to get one myself, amazing price for what it can do.

 

[ipman]

I think it depends on what you're used to. I started gaming on PC.

Okay I'll say it; consoles are aimed at the younger market, and PC gaming is more sophisticated.

I'd consider it regressing to go to a console. I wouldn't go for the Steam Deck either, too small.

I'm more inclined to VR.

But with graphics cards people need to; stop panic buying, stop believing having the latest makes you superior or fashionable/cool or will vastly improve your gaming. The only reason they are expensive is hyped demand.

Stop paying too much for what is just another component.

 

[Colif]

Well, if people did to the 4090 what they did to the 4080, we might get somewhere, but with people willing to pay stupid amounts to have the Best ever card** we won't get anywhere. Let the scalpers buy them all and then have to return them.

Okay I'll say it; consoles are aimed at the younger market, and PC gaming is more sophisticated.

its not so clear cut, and I wouldn't call PC gaming sophisticated. T bagging and all the crap said in COD or games like it show that the pc gamer isn't as grown up as you might think. Nintendo might have a target audience that doesn't care about graphics, and the other 2 might be try hard PC, but they not really for kids. Not all the games anyway.

I started playing games before PC and consoles existed in their current form so I don't really feel a tie to either. I also haven't played a game in over a year so what I use PC for cannot be replicated on console with controllers. I just always buy better PC than I need. I could probably use a laptop except screens are too small and they lack 5.1 speakers. attaching it to a monitor so I can read screen doesn't really answer question.

** until the next one. I hate things being sold as best Ever, as unless the world ends tomorrow, its just a lie.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I think it depends on what you're used to. I started gaming on PC.

Always used to have a strict idea in my head what was a PC game and what was a console one. In the last couple of years I've me met people who prefer to play FPS on PC and even games like Divinity Original Sin 2 with a controller. Crusader Kings 3 is pretty popular on Xbox if you go by the Reddit, which I cannot get my head around, but sure.

PC does a lot of other fun stuff, and you can mess with them much more. Console would be something I got as well as instead of rather than, but I can see the attraction of the sofa sometimes. Steam Deck would also be great for travelling.

But with graphics cards people need to; stop panic buying, stop believing having the latest makes you superior or fashionable/cool or will vastly improve your gaming. The only reason they are expensive is hyped demand.

Stop paying too much for what is just another component.

Think I told this story before here somewhere but anyway. Old man, cloud etc.

When I was younger Bulmers Cider was something like £2.50 in the local One Stop for a 4 pack of 500ml cans. We used to get it because it was cheaper than Strongbow, tasted OK and was relatively strong.

One summer there was a huge advertising campaign for Magners on ice, It was the drink of the summer, cider was cool again. The next year the Bulmers cans disappeared from the shops. Instead Bulmers had their own huge marketing campaign, from then on came in Magners sized bottles, and cost £4 for 500ml.

In 2011 the fastest Nvidia card available was the GTX 580 for 499 (650 adjusted for inflation today). In 2012 we got the GTX 680, which was really the mid range chip of that architecture for 499, followed by the 'GTX Titan' for 1000 a while later.

Nvidia net income since 2010 Those R&D and manufacturing costs really hurting the bottom line.

 

[ipman]

its not so clear cut, and I wouldn't call PC gaming sophisticated. T bagging and all the crap said in COD or games like it show that the pc gamer isn't as grown up as you might think. Nintendo might have a target audience that doesn't care about graphics, and the other 2 might be try hard PC, but they not really for kids. Not all the games anyway.

I started playing games before PC and consoles existed in their current form so I don't really feel a tie to either. I also haven't played a game in over a year so what I use PC for cannot be replicated on console with controllers. I just always buy better PC than I need. I could probably use a laptop except screens are too small and they lack 5.1 speakers. attaching it to a monitor so I can read screen doesn't really answer question.

** until the next one. I hate things being sold as best Ever, as unless the world ends tomorrow, its just a lie.

I know, I was partly playing devil's advocate. I would find it hard to play with a controller on a console. By 'sophisticated', I meant in terms of the complexity of the equipment and controls. Although there is a general feeling that PC gaming is more sophisticated, in the other sense.

I use a Steam controller occasionally with my PC. It's just more limited. But enjoy having Razer keypad, mouse and KB to cover all options.

But WoodenSaucer was right, if you want a relatively cheap gaming experience where games are optimised for consoles, then choose an X Box Series X.

 

[ipman]

Think I told this story before here somewhere but anyway. Old man, cloud etc.

When I was younger Bulmers Cider was something like £2.50 in the local One Stop for a 4 pack of 500ml cans. We used to get it because it was cheaper than Strongbow, tasted OK and was relatively strong.

One summer there was a huge advertising campaign for Magners on ice, It was the drink of the summer, cider was cool again. The next year the Bulmers cans disappeared from the shops. Instead Bulmers had their own huge marketing campaign, from then on came in Magners sized bottles, and cost £4 for 500ml.

In 2011 the fastest Nvidia card available was the GTX 580 for 499 (650 adjusted for inflation today). In 2012 we got the GTX 680, which was really the mid range chip of that architecture for 499, followed by the 'GTX Titan' for 1000 a while later.

Nvidia net income since 2010 Those R&D and manufacturing costs really hurting the bottom line.

For cider I used to go to the farm and buy it straight from those massive storage tanks. It looked like white wine.

I see the graphic card issue as more like the OPEC intervention where oil producers decided to take control of the market themselves. Nvidia primarily make graphic cards, and their marketing strategy and prices have made them the world's 12th richest company.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

For cider I used to go to the farm and buy it straight from those massive storage tanks. It looked like white wine.

I see the graphic card issue as more like the OPEC intervention where oil producers decided to take control of the market themselves. Nvidia primarily make graphic cards, and their marketing strategy and prices have made them the world's 12th richest company.

You could buy scrumpy in what looked like industrial cleaner bottles from honesty boxes at the end of some orchards driveways around where I lived, round about 8-10% was about standard. Cider is too dangerous to drink anymore, the cans are too sweet and the scrumpy is too strong!

Its an impressive strategy in those terms for sure. Sucks to be a consumer though, and its all our own fault.

 

[ipman]

I was trying to find out if there were more graphic cards companies, and now just two dominate market. I also wonder if Nvidias dominace and demands have what made EVGA stop dealing with them.

It would take collective effort, refuse to purchase new over priced , but we know that won't work.

It could mean that PC gaming, which was always more expensive, becomes more elitist, for enthusiasts with cash.

Although with the weather like it is (and more so in Sweden), this is when gaming comes into it's own.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I was trying to find out if there were more graphic cards companies, and now just two dominate market. I also wonder if Nvidias dominace and demands have what made EVGA stop dealing with them.

It would take collective effort, refuse to purchase new over priced , but we know that won't work.

It could mean that PC gaming, which was always more expensive, becomes more elitist, for enthusiasts with cash.

Although with the weather like it is (and more so in Sweden), this is when gaming comes into it's own.

At the moment AMD gets to release $1000 msrp cards and get congratulated for being the value proposition, so they arent complaining. Apparently thats the case with EVGA, theres been coverage around about it.

Intel released some cards that are pretty good at their price point, which might eventually help. They dont do well in games that pre date DX12, I believe drivers benefit from being optimized on a game by game basis, so that would explain it.

If they can hang around for a few generations at a loss, the drivers should catch up and then maybe they could get a proper foot hold, no one trusts their driver side right now. I think their RT is pretty good though, as well as their AI upscaler Xess (equivalent to DLSS and FSR).

Youre right, no one who can afford it is going to go without a card in protest, but I'm certainly aiming further down the stack these days then I used to. Looking to spend relatively around the same as normal, just my money doesnt go as far as it did as few years ago.

Definitely much more time gaming in the winter, but there are potential blackouts here in Finland and I'm kind of glad I dont have to pay the spot price for electricity usage on a current high end card!