PCG Article Organic ads in games

[Kaamos_Llama]

Death Stranding already did it, I'm sure there are other examples.

I dont like the idea in principle, but if its not too obtrusive and publishers actually give a good portion of that money to developers to improve the game in question then I'd be happier. The problem is I'm not sure that management will know where to stop when they get the dollar signs in their eyes. At least they'll push it as far as they can before they get a backlash.

Free to play games, it's just part of the price of entry.

1. The sponsors demand bigger coverage / appearances in games. Not so much random billboards with product logos, but adverts during loading games would be more to their liking.

2. Demanding that the game devs pay THEM for the use of their products or appear in game with extreme draconian rules in place to get the right message and avoid embarrassing sponsors etc. Samsung got pretty upset when someone modded the c4 in GTA V to be one of their phones because they overheated. I wouldn't be surprised if players found ways to deface and humiliate sponsors as well. Something similar also happens in COD series, if you want to use certain make and models of guns, they have to reach out to the gun makers for permission and approval so that no copyright infringement is created and the right impression is given for the weapons/makers.


That said, i did find it cool in Rainbow 6 vegas there was the odd poster that showed the latest movies and it wasn't intrusive. It made me go, oh hey cool and promptly ignored it.

1. Would be too far for me, and its possible I'd avoid a game entirely if I knew it had that up front. I can't see how 2. would happen, if I'm reading what you say right. Apart from games where using real life brands is critical to the experience like racing games, or may as you say COD or something.

I've heard that some car games (Gran Turismo?) haven't had serious damage mechanics because manufacturers dont want negative images of their beautiful sports cars dented and smashed up out there.

 

[DXCHASE]

I honestly feel more immerse when i see a (NON-INTRUSIVE) add for a real-life product pops up in game but it also depends on the game. Like seeing adds for things i recognize in a modern day setting sure, games like Division or Spiderman, something like where you are in a big city. But having an ad in a futuristic setting like CP2077, or idk... Deadspace, would ruin it for me.

And i really really really hope that developers do not allow ads to pop up as load screens.

 

[Zloth]

Death Stranding already did it, I'm sure there are other examples.

And got rid of it again in the Director's Cut.

City of Heroes put it in, too. They gave players the option to turn it on and off in the options (and I think the default was off). It didn't last for very long, but I got a couple of examples.

But having an ad in a futuristic setting like CP2077, or idk... Deadspace, would ruin it for me.

You want to really kill it? Put it in a fantasy setting. At least in SF, you can imagine the product still exists.

That leads to something that worries me the most about in-game advertising. If it becomes commonplace, then there's going to be a lot of pressure to avoid settings where the products make no sense. I really don't want to see that kind of pressure put on designers.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Mark my words. There will be posters for McDonald's scattered around in TES VI.

 

[Zloth]

M'aiq the Liar: M'aiq thinks hamburgers are tasty. Especially with milk shakes. Tell the order taker at McDonalds that M'aiq says so and get a free microscopic milk shake. Please pronounce M'aiq's name correctly, it's so embarrassing when people don't.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

And got rid of it again in the Director's Cut.

City of Heroes put it in, too. They gave players the option to turn it on and off in the options (and I think the default was off). It didn't last for very long, but I got a couple of examples.

You want to really kill it? Put it in a fantasy setting. At least in SF, you can imagine the product still exists.

That leads to something that worries me the most about in-game advertising. If it becomes commonplace, then there's going to be a lot of pressure to avoid settings where the products make no sense. I really don't want to see that kind of pressure put on designers.

Death Stranding pioneering, time limited gaming ad space in our always online for everything future :/

Yea your last point is a very good one. You just killed any ambivalence I had about it. The big publically owned publishers would gradually abandon fantasy to shoehorn in ads if they thought it meant they could move the bottom line a mm. The idea fully sucks and would have no benefit to players, especially in the long run.

 

[Frindis]

I threw out my TV over 20 years ago when I gave the middle finger to commercials. I was several years late to the Android/Apple market because I refused to turn my phone into anything else than ringing. I still got my old Nokia phone from 12+ years ago, but I have realized some of the apps on my 2-year-old Samsung phone are quite convenient nowadays. I guess that is also one of the reasons you won't see me sitting in a restaurant looking at my phone or walking around staring at it.

So, pretty sure I'd just not play those games if they had annoyingly placed commercials destroying the gameplay for me and especially since I still have a middle finger left to throw out.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I'm the one who started this line of discussion by claiming I heard Microsoft filed a patent. Here's an article about it so we can have a source for our discussion.

Microsoft Files Patent for Displaying Personalized Ads in Games

Microsoft wants to offer gamers 'immersive, personalized content' as they play.

www.pcmag.com

 

[Zloth]

Although the patent states this would be an "unintrusive" system of serving ads, it would inevitably lead to developers being asked to ensure a minimum number of locations where ads can be placed and easily seen.

Inevitably?? That's a mighty strong word to use, especially given the author makes no attempt to justify it at all. There are a lot of factors flying around that could throw some... uhhh... evity into the works.

1. The advertisers, players, and developers/publishers can't find a middle ground. Once you get the advertising out of the way enough to satisfy players, the effect of the advertising has gone down to the point where it isn't worth doing to the advertiser. Or, when the advertisers say they will pay $X for every player that looks at their in-game billboard for over 5 seconds, the game makers work out the expected revenue and it comes out to be less than the cost of getting it into the game and maintaining it, never mind the expected loss in sales.
2. The whole 'personalized' thing is good for getting advertisements the player is actually interested in showing up on screen, but it also means everyone is giving up control on where that advertisement appears. Having an 'ambulance chaser lawyer' advertisement show up in a child's bedroom breaks the immersion for the player and makes both the developer and the lawyer look stupid. Too many "nobody's happy" situations like that, and this idea goes down like a lead balloon.

 

[Brian Boru]

Too many "nobody's happy" situations like that, and this idea goes down like a lead balloon.

Or a shot-down balloon? I doubt there'll be 'too many'. Players will be happy cos the games are free or nearly—look how this works in the other entertainment industries, and the online world.

It's difficult to think of an area advertising wanted to infect, but failed. Do y'all still rail against the roadside billboards? Of course you do—but have you stopped driving on that road? No, of course not, cos every other decent road has also been infested.

Now if they were to make in-game billboards destructible… uh, where's the patent office again?

 

[Zloth]

Or a shot-down balloon?

Now why would I think of a balloon being shot down in this day and age?

It's difficult to think of an area advertising wanted to infect, but failed.

Well, video games for one. Putting advertisements in games has been floated around for the past couple of decades. We see them from time to time, but it's pretty rare - at least in pay-to-play games. Books would be another.

 

[Pifanjr]

Well, video games for one. Putting advertisements in games has been floated around for the past couple of decades. We see them from time to time, but it's pretty rare - at least in pay-to-play games. Books would be another.

They have become very common in free mobile games, as most mobile gamers are extremely hesitant to spend money on a game. They mostly take the form of unskippable ads between rounds/games, usually with the option to watch more advertisements for in-game rewards. There's usually also an option to pay to remove all of the ads from the game.

I'm not sure why this isn't more common in desktop games to be honest, especially those which are both on desktop and mobile platforms.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Now if they were to make in-game billboards destructible… uh, where's the patent office again?

My wife has destroyed plenty of billboards in Forza Horizon 5. Lol

 

[ZedClampet]

Now if they were to make in-game billboards destructible… uh, where's the patent office again?

As a Far Cry 6 player, you have already destroyed billboards, and as WS says, you can take them out in Forza, too.

One problem with all this, to me, is that these ads aren't going to replace paying for the game. They are going to be in addition to paying for the game. Extra money for the publishers.

Also, I give it a 99 percent chance that the first time I click on a billboard and the game tries to open my browser that the game will crash.

FURTHERMORE, I'd rather have non-targeted advertising. That way, I might actually find something new that I want. With targeted advertising, I just keep seeing ads for stuff I already bought and don't need.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

One problem with all this, to me, is that these ads aren't going to replace paying for the game. They are going to be in addition to paying for the game. Extra money for the publishers.

Yeah, you're exactly right about this. It's a way for them to make even more money at our expense. If it's truly unintrusive, then I don't have a huge problem with it, though. I'm just skeptical that it will really be unintrusive.

 

[ZedClampet]

Yeah, you're exactly right about this. It's a way for them to make even more money at our expense. If it's truly unintrusive, then I don't have a huge problem with it, though. I'm just skeptical that it will really be unintrusive.

Think about it this way: The more intrusive it is, the more money they'll make.

 

[Brian Boru]

you have already destroyed billboards

Oh yeah, and earlier than FC6 too—did I mention my driving? Long time ago, I took a crash course in driving, and it's worked ever since

these ads aren't going to replace paying for the game

Depends, they probably will at the lower end of the market—there are already loads of free & freemium games, just not in AAA sector… yet.

Or is Battle Royale AAA? Those guys make a fortune with their free games loaded with marketing.

I could see a base AAA game for free, loaded with ads. But it's stripped down, they removed loads of good stuff which they then start dribbling as paid DLC—'paid' maybe to include interacting with ads, if they can track that reliably in the face of auto-clickers etc. That Strip & DLC already happens anyway these days

I'd rather have non-targeted advertising

I've got more saliva than you—yah boo!—so I prefer targeted

 

[Zloth]

I'm not sure why this isn't more common in desktop games to be honest, especially those which are both on desktop and mobile platforms.

The big one I was thinking about was {checks around to make sure no moderators are watching, then alters the spelling a tad} Fort Night. They dump in so much product placement that it has gotten ridiculous. They put Kelsier in there, for pity's sake! I bet Valve could sneak a promo in if they happened to contact a newer employee at Epic.

 

[ZedClampet]

The big one I was thinking about was {checks around to make sure no moderators are watching, then alters the spelling a tad} Fort Night. They dump in so much product placement that it has gotten ridiculous. They put Kelsier in there, for pity's sake! I bet Valve could sneak a promo in if they happened to contact a newer employee at Epic.

Aren't there strict rules about advertising to children? I smell another 500 million dollar fine coming.

 

[Pifanjr]

The big one I was thinking about was {checks around to make sure no moderators are watching, then alters the spelling a tad} Fort Night. They dump in so much product placement that it has gotten ridiculous. They put Kelsier in there, for pity's sake! I bet Valve could sneak a promo in if they happened to contact a newer employee at Epic.

I wonder if they get money for adding skins or whether they pay for the rights to use those skins. I assumed the latter, but considering how big Fortnite is it wouldn't be surprising if it is the former.

 

[ZedClampet]

I just want to point out that novels have long used brand names in their stories to give a sense of realism. There's a difference between walking through a post apocalyptic world and finding an old Coca Cola sign on the ground partially covered in dirt and actually putting paid ads in your game.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Think about it this way: The more intrusive it is, the more money they'll make.

Yeah, you're right. But on the other end of the spectrum, if it's too intrusive, nobody is going to want to play the game. I wonder how long it will take them to find the balance where it's profitable without driving people away.

I just want to point out that novels have long used brand names in their stories to give a sense of realism. There's a difference between walking through a post apocalyptic world and finding an old Coca Cola sign on the ground partially covered in dirt and actually putting paid ads in your game.

Although, I did think it was quaint and clever when Fallout put in old looking Nuka Cola stuff.

 

[mainer]

I threw out my TV over 20 years ago when I gave the middle finger to commercials.

My brother! I threw out my last TV about 25-30 years ago as I could no longer stand for the constant BS and brainwashing of advertising. I didn't actually "throw" it out to pollute the environment, as the company I used to work for had a monthly pickup for hazardous wastes/materials that I was able to the TV into. I have a great dislike for corporation's marketing departments and avoid any advertising propaganda that I can.

There's a difference between walking through a post apocalyptic world and finding an old Coca Cola sign on the ground partially covered in dirt and actually putting paid ads in your game.

That's very true. Sometimes seeing a "brand name" in an advertisement adds realism to the world (usually post-apocalyptic in my experience). They're not meant as advertising but more of a feeling of immersion.

Or a shot-down balloon?

Now why would I think of a balloon being shot down in this day and age?

Suspected Chinese spy balloon shot down over Atlantic was taller than the Statue of Liberty - CBS News

 

[Brian Boru]

I wonder how long it will take them to find the balance where it's profitable without driving people away

Shouldn't take long, I expect they'll mostly sort it this decade. They've got all the soap opera and TV history to call on, and with the 'look at me' stuff, Hollywood etc obviously has a big influence—so the discussions and learning should happen quickly.

The core of marketing is testing, and that's been underway for a while.

@Frindis @mainer Silly people, should've transitioned your TVs to become monitors

Suspected Chinese spy balloon shot down over Atlantic was taller than the Statue of Liberty - CBS News

Now there's marketing in full flow—kudos to CBS for framing the story in a way to maximize views. Gotta love corporate marketing!

 

[JC1984]

Advertising in games is a constant thing. I remember when I played Alan Wake and stuck to the TV, they saw an achievement for watching ads.