July 2025 PCG Article Discussion

[Zed Clampet]

I'm not upset they removed incest porn either, but I don't like that it was removed because the payment processors didn't like it, instead of Steam taking a stance against them.

And @Zloth

I agree. The good news is that despite what the article says, the payment processors have been doing this since the dawn of the Internet, and they've never gone after LGBTQ+ material to my knowledge. They seem to stick to adult material that is either illegal or depicts something illegal, like child pron and incest. The big exception to this is furry porn, which I don't think they've ever gone after even though in most places it would be illegal to have human/nonhuman activity.

But it makes sense to me that they don't want their product being used for this sort of thing. At the same time, it is concerning that they wield so much power.

 

[Frindis]

What will Mastercard and the like do next? Maybe they'll stop any games showing school shootings or dark political satire? Maybe we won't see games like Manhunt, Postal or Hatred on Steam anymore because some CEO deem them unsafe for the population. I could swear it was not that long ago that groups of people banned/burned music, art, books, or other material they didn't like and did not want you to have access to. Come to think of it, some groups STILL do!

The major problem is that when you open for this to be an option, then it will be harder to stop the flood gates when they open fully! Another problem could also be that game development studios get sceptical of using Steam as a publishing platform because their game might be deemed unsafe or unhealthy for the public.

 

[dxchase]

Where will steam draw the line then? Yea, if those pay processors dont like anti-religion stuff, then does that mean somethin like Diablo 4 wont be sold on steam because it depicts hell and demons and witchcraft?

Im not at all someone who would buy the adult games that steam pulled, but the ones that were pulled that werent porn? Theres always going to be those outliers like that.

This ruling by steam is tantamount to inclusion and gaming in general

 

[Pifanjr]

Can you identify these games from their bland-faced, generic-looking protagonists?

The most forgettable heroes in the business.

www.pcgamer.com

It wasn't a good sign when I didn't recognise Desmond Miles in the screenshot of the article leading up to the quiz, when Assassin's Creed was definitely one of my favourite series at one point. Still, I got 5/11 and didn't mess up on any games I've actually played.

I almost got 6/11; I got the name right just from context clues, but apparently the character was from a sequel.

 

[Zed Clampet]

Where will steam draw the line then? Yea, if those pay processors dont like anti-religion stuff, then does that mean somethin like Diablo 4 wont be sold on steam because it depicts hell and demons and witchcraft?

Im not at all someone who would buy the adult games that steam pulled, but the ones that were pulled that werent porn? Theres always going to be those outliers like that.

This ruling by steam is tantamount to inclusion and gaming in general

Valve literally had no choice but to capitulate. How were they going to continue to sell games without Visa and Mastercard?

I don't know what the answer is except to create a law that states that Visa and Mastercard can't refuse service for any legal purchase.

 

[Pifanjr]

Valve literally had no choice but to capitulate. How were they going to continue to sell games without Visa and Mastercard?

I don't know what the answer is except to create a law that states that Visa and Mastercard can't refuse service for any legal purchase.

Who will be responsible for determining whether any purchase is for something legal? From what I understand Mastercard and Visa started boycotting adult content because scams and other illegal activities were much more common on any platform that allowed such content.

 

[Zed Clampet]

Who will be responsible for determining whether any purchase is for something legal?

It's complicated, but obviously Valve would have to police what gets sold on their store or, just as now, the bankcard companies could refuse to work with them.

In the US the only "adult" thing that's definitely illegal is child porn. Unfortunately, however, our obscenity laws are a masterwork in vagary, so the only person who can determine whether a particular subject is illegal is a judge.

This is problematic. What we need is a list that wasn't made with morality in mind. For instance, we could list things that are objectively a bad idea for people to do, like snuff, incest or cross species. That's not great, but it might be better than what we have.

Personally, though, I feel like obscenity laws are representative of a bygone time that isn't relevant anymore. The best thing would be to get rid of them.

 

[Zed Clampet]

By the way, this whole thing is why Valve should have never started allowing adult games in the first place. It's not that there is anything wrong with adult material, it's that you've now lowered yourself into the same pit as some of the most questionable businesses in America.

 

[Frindis]

Seems it's a feminist group that pushed for the whole shutdown of certain content on Steam - an Australian anti-porn group called Collective Shout. PC Gamer has an article on them, and it seems they have been doing similar in the past and recently tried to ban Detroit: Become Human from sale in Australia. Maybe the group should try to ban all the dangerous and violent animals from Australia also while they are at it....

 

[Colif]

Maybe the group should try to ban all the dangerous and violent animals from Australia also while they are at it....

I think we should arrange a fight between them. I suspect the Emus will win. I might even watch a fight between them and a kangaroo. Crocodile wouldn't be fair... nor would drop bears

some of this may not make any sense.

Stupid ideas coming from Australia... call me shocked. Stunned... totally not expected...
I am sure some here see all the stupid things UK & USA do and think, we can do that harder. Its been a problem for years. We haven't been a colony for over 120 years, can we stop sucking up to other nations?
I hate how people here feel they need to protect the rest of us from choices.

 

[Frindis]

@Colif, I looked up those Jack Jumper ants. They can leap up to 10 cm, which is scary stuff! Off course, one of the animals actually eating those would look like this one and be called Thorny Devil. What an amazing cool-looking creature!

 

[Pifanjr]

It's complicated, but obviously Valve would have to police what gets sold on their store or, just as now, the bankcard companies could refuse to work with them.

In the US the only "adult" thing that's definitely illegal is child porn. Unfortunately, however, our obscenity laws are a masterwork in vagary, so the only person who can determine whether a particular subject is illegal is a judge.

This is problematic. What we need is a list that wasn't made with morality in mind. For instance, we could list things that are objectively a bad idea for people to do, like snuff, incest or cross species. That's not great, but it might be better than what we have.

Personally, though, I feel like obscenity laws are representative of a bygone time that isn't relevant anymore. The best thing would be to get rid of them.

Even if you make a list of illegal "adult" stuff, why would it be wrong to make games that feature these illegal "adult" topics when it's seemingly fine to feature a wide range of other types of crime in video games?

It's not that I disagree with you, I find the idea of a game that includes simulated child porn abhorrent, but for some reason when I see that someone has made a mod that tracks the number of war crimes you can commit in Rimworld I just think it's kind of funny.

By the way, this whole thing is why Valve should have never started allowing adult games in the first place. It's not that there is anything wrong with adult material, it's that you've now lowered yourself into the same pit as some of the most questionable businesses in America.

This is the only argument that does make sense to me for banning (some) adult material and why I'm not too worried about this being a slippery slope towards banning more games. I don't think these payment processors care much about the moral objections against the content they ban, they just don't want to deal with the questionable business practices that are more common with this type of content.

 

[Colif]

@Colif, I looked up those Jack Jumper ants. They can leap up to 10 cm, which is scary stuff! Off course, one of the animals actually eating those would look like this one and be called Thorny Devil. What an amazing cool-looking creature!

judging by its camo, I have to guess both it and the ants are in the arid areas of my country. Most of the things in that video are found outside of cities. Most cities anyway... Lucky its too cold here for Red Back Spiders, and we 200 klm from the nearest ocean so most of the aquatic ones can't reach me. Only wombats I ever see are dead on side of roads. They can run fast but trucks tend to be more solid in collisions.

I still know better than to poke around in the garage as the spiders own that space now.

 

[Zed Clampet]

Even if you make a list of illegal "adult" stuff, why would it be wrong to make games that feature these illegal "adult" topics when it's seemingly fine to feature a wide range of other types of crime in video games?

It's not that I disagree with you, I find the idea of a game that includes simulated child porn abhorrent, but for some reason when I see that someone has made a mod that tracks the number of war crimes you can commit in Rimworld I just think it's kind of funny.

There is nothing wrong with making a game that features illegal adult topics, but you are missing that this is handled differently in the US where Valve is located. The actual truth of the matter is that in the US, pornography (adult material not deemed to have literary, artistic, political, or scientific value) is actually illegal. This applies to games as well. So if you make a game that is only pornography (and Steam recognizes this and lets you block games that are simply pornography instead of games that might show the same thing but aren't pornography), then you are subject to the obscenity guidelines. My contention is that these guidelines are ridiculous and way too vague and need to be updated.

 

[Frindis]

I still know better than to poke around in the garage as the spiders own that space now.

Some years into the future, Colif decides to open the garage door.
"They're probably going now, it's been YEARS!"
Colif gently opens the garage door, just to be sure not to startle anything lurking.
The door is almost halfway open when Colif notices something on the ground.
A giant hairy spider is looking straight at him!
Spider then turns his head towards the handle on the door and slowly pulls the door down again while keeping eye contact with Colif.
Colif "You got to be kidding me....

 

[Colif]

Some years into the future, Colif decides to open the garage door.
"They're probably going now, it's been YEARS!"
Colif gently opens the garage door, just to be sure not to startle anything lurking.
The door is almost halfway open when Colif notices something on the ground.
A giant hairy spider is looking straight at him!
Spider then turns his head towards the handle on the door and slowly pulls the door down again while keeping eye contact with Colif.
Colif "You got to be kidding me....

correction:
Colif approaches door with remote
remote doesn't work as battery dead
Colif retreats cursing and needing to get a new battery.

This has happened once before. We were going out and suddenly found the garage wouldn't open. There is meant to be a release inside garage but we couldn't figure it out. We had to get a new remote and sync it to garage.

I didn't know some of these. Scary even the bees hate us... and we imported them

Spoiler

 

[Pifanjr]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/strategy/armies-in-total-war-warhammer-3s-siege-beta-wont-carry-ladders-in-their-pockets-any-more/

I'm very curious whether they'll manage to get this update to work without botching the AI (even more).

 

[Frindis]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/horro...-only-have-one-request-for-saber-interactive/ This announcement trailer could not have come at a better time. Bravo! Let the blood, screams, and GORE feast our eyes!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_4kAp6gsZE&t=17s

 

[BeardyHat]

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/horro...-only-have-one-request-for-saber-interactive/ This announcement trailer could not have come at a better time. Bravo! Let the blood, screams, and GORE feast our eyes!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R88QdlIlg-E

Looks cool (bewbs).

Never actually seen or interacted with any Hellraiser stuff, but I've read several Clive Barker books, which are usually pretty good, though I think he has trouble with endings.

That said, my local library has the first Hellraiser novel or short story or whatever it is via Libby, so I checked it out and hope to start reading it this week, based on this trailer.

Still deep in the midst of The Guns of August, but I think I can take a break from that for just a minute...

 

[BeardyHat]

RIP, Prince of Darkness: Ozzy Osbourne has died at age 76

The heavy metal singer had an extraordinary influence on music and popular culture, and appeared in 2009 Double Fine game Brütal Legend.

www.pcgamer.com

Not much of a Sabbath fan myself, but RIP to one of the founders of my favorite music genre.

 

[Pifanjr]

Ubisoft CEO says Star Wars Outlaws tanked because people are bored of Star Wars: 'The brand it belonged to was in a bit of choppy waters'

Correct, he is.

www.pcgamer.com

I suspect the brand fatigue that hit Outlaws the hardest is the one for Ubisoft style games. Coupled with the fact that the launch wasn't great and the game itself was fairly mediocre (PCGamer rated it 73) I don't think the Star Wars branding was the biggest problem.

 

[Frindis]

Looks cool (bewbs).

Fixed

 

[neogunhero]

I'm oh so into the new DeathAdder V4 Pro, even though I am absolutely no pro

For the budding professional gamer, the new DeathAdder has everything you could want. For everyone else it might be a stretch.

www.pcgamer.com

If you’re in the market for a new gaming mouse, keep an eye out for the older Razer Deathadder V2 and V3, they should be going on sale now that the V4 is out. They’re best for larger hands, but are very well built, solid gaming mice. I’ve used the V2 for 5-6 years now, and it’s still holding up perfectly apart from some finger rubbed marks. The review says it best, while the newest one is good, it doesn’t make sense to buy it when the older versions are still perfectly great and could potentially go on sale.

 

[dxchase]

There is nothing wrong with making a game that features illegal adult topics, but you are missing that this is handled differently in the US where Valve is located. The actual truth of the matter is that in the US, pornography (adult material not deemed to have literary, artistic, political, or scientific value) is actually illegal. This applies to games as well. So if you make a game that is only pornography (and Steam recognizes this and lets you block games that are simply pornography instead of games that might show the same thing but aren't pornography), then you are subject to the obscenity guidelines. My contention is that these guidelines are ridiculous and way too vague and need to be updated.

Late reply i know! First, i wanna see the law that states that about that stuff being illegal. Its not that i dont believe, i just wanna see the law. And, you are right, any rules and regulations regarding this topic are severely out-of-date.

Steams bowing down to card processors is still absolutely disgusting regardless if it was necessary to keep those there so they can keep making money. No matter how you cut it up, in the end its anti-consumer, anti-choice, anti-inclusion, etc. It also doesnt matter whether or not you think adult-themed games like that are disgusting.

They are G-A-M-E-S and the whole "well the game depicts obscene stuff" argument is bogus. Shooting and killing and blowing stuff up in games is just as violent and obscene as pixels kissing each other naked but nah, lets keep those still selling on steam but, omg! The female anatomy!! RUUUNNN!!!! This logic tracks for US morals.

Bending knees to the moral compass of US companies because of money is a lot worse than allowing games that show pixels kissing each other naked on your store imo. Those games are developed by small groups of devs and regular people. Sure they might be into different things than you and I, but are they committing atrocities like taking money out of the hands of thousands because "you dont like sex" or something that Steam is doing? No.

Groups like that Collective Shout are just like the groups calling for ESRB ratings to be added in the 90s. Groups of self-righteous people who want to police what others consume. Also, the founder of Collective Shout has been trying to ban x-rated material in Australia for over a decade and is pro-life, so they are anti-abortion and against any type of pornography. Its sad that a group like this can bully card processors who then bully steam who then bully us as consumers.

/rant

TL;DR. No moral or ethic defense can be given to steam regarding their decision to censor and cherry-pick our steam choices

 

[Frindis]

Just to expand on @DXCHASE's good points:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhrSQCEQ0jo