How do you define game categories?

[Inspireless Llama]

Hey guys,

I'm posting this thread because I'm interested in opinions about how you define to what category a game belongs. I had a discussion with some friends and while it may have been an over the top conclusion, we concluded that pretty much every game you play can be considered a RPG.
For example. if I'm playing Euro Truck Simulator 2 I'm roleplaying I'm a truck driver. If I play Rome: Total War I'm either roleplaying as leader of a faction or as a general. When playing Cities: Skylines I'm roleplaying as the major of the city I'm creating.

I remember that there was (quite a while ago) a discussion about it on Discord where it turned out that the categories don't really have clear borders to where a game belongs to a category or not. Also some categories are still very big. For example: The Witcher 3 and Divinity Original Sin both are considered RPG's, while they are completely different games in terms of gameplay.

I personally think that categories might be a bit personal as well. If I'm playing Red Dead Redemption 2 I feel like I'm playing a RPG. I would put Borderlands in the FPS category while I think alot of people consider that a RPG. Cities: Skylines feels both like management and strategy to me because of the planning it requires.

 

[PioneerRaptor]

I think it's a pretty good discussion to be had.

My first thought is that you can't really define a game with ONE genre and that's really how you would separate games like The Witcher 3 and Divinity: Original Sin. In my opinion, The Witcher 3 is an open-world, third-person, roleplaying-game. Division: Original Sin would be an open-world, isometric, role-playing game.

Another thing to take into account is how we define a genre and how we determine how a game fits into a genre. Here, while some are pretty obvious like third-person and first-person some can be a bit broader. Your example of RPG is spot-on. With it as broad as you currently have it, every game would fit.

For me, an RPG is a game that focuses on building unique characters through some kind of game-play system such as stats, classes, builds, equipment, abilities, etc. This is just a quick definition and I'm sure if we started throwing games at it the definition would become more and more refined to exclude certain games and include others.

And maybe, that last sentence is what one would do. Take a bunch of games that you consider to be the same genre and define what they have in common. Then figure out if other games meet that same definition, determine if they should belong or not and if they shouldn't further refine your definition to exclude it while keeping your original list.

 

[SWard]

Oh wow,

So I was having this discussion a while ago, about what co-op actually is, in regards to genre etc, so I asked twitter:



So a few of my friends see CO-OP as a genre, and will play anything in that genre exclusively, which I thought was interesting, as I always saw it as a feature.

 

[PioneerRaptor]

Initially, I would call co-op a feature and for many games, that's what it is. Why? Because it doesn't define the game and you can play the game without co-op.

However, if the game can only be played as co-op, then that would be a genre.

Example of co-op as a feature: Magicka - Yes, it's more fun to play co-op but it's not a requirement.
Example of co-op as a genre: A Way Out - Here, you have to play in co-op, there is no solo option.

 

[Inspireless Llama]

I think Raptor is right there, there are some games where co-op is a feature (Borderlands 2 for example). Game is fun to play with other people but it can be played solo.

When you look at games as Keep Talking and Nobody explodes, it's a genre. That game is supposed to be played with other players. But it does mean that the word "co-op" has more than one meaning, and it can be in multiple genres.

I do think that co-op has a pretty clear meaning of what it does though. Unless you consider MMORPG's as partially co-op as well (some quests you do with guilds are co-op right)?

Talking about MMORPG's, I think that's a genre that falls under multiple categories. In some ways it's single player because you do a lot of things alone. You do run into other players of course. Then it's an RPG because you're roleplaying. Co-op because you do things together with friends or guilds. PvP because there are some games (or every game) where you can play against other players.

I think it's a pretty good discussion to be had.

My first thought is that you can't really define a game with ONE genre and that's really how you would separate games like The Witcher 3 and Divinity: Original Sin. In my opinion, The Witcher 3 is an open-world, third-person, roleplaying-game. Division: Original Sin would be an open-world, isometric, role-playing game.

Another thing to take into account is how we define a genre and how we determine how a game fits into a genre. Here, while some are pretty obvious like third-person and first-person some can be a bit broader. Your example of RPG is spot-on. With it as broad as you currently have it, every game would fit.

For me, an RPG is a game that focuses on building unique characters through some kind of game-play system such as stats, classes, builds, equipment, abilities, etc. This is just a quick definition and I'm sure if we started throwing games at it the definition would become more and more refined to exclude certain games and include others.

I agree that most games cannot be put into just 1 genre. The Witcher 3 is a 3rd person RPG, while Divinity would be more top down to me and Skyrim I would call a "create your own story RPG".
Then there are games that have in the description "has RPG elements". I never know what that means but then I think it's not an RPG.

And maybe, that last sentence is what one would do. Take a bunch of games that you consider to be the same genre and define what they have in common. Then figure out if other games meet that same definition, determine if they should belong or not and if they shouldn't further refine your definition to exclude it while keeping your original list.

I think that's personal then. When I look at Sniper Elite it's a shooter to me. I would put it into the same genre as Call of Duty and just name them both FPS, while I think Sniper is not technically a first person shooter.

 

[PioneerRaptor]

I think that's personal then. When I look at Sniper Elite it's a shooter to me. I would put it into the same genre as Call of Duty and just name them both FPS, while I think Sniper is not technically a first-person shooter.

It is personal then. In your case, think about why Sniper Elite and Call of Duty are different games to you and try to define them separately. Maybe you need to add an additional genre onto the FPS genre for one of both of them. Sniper Elite is primarily a game about being stealthy, so maybe a Stealth FPS?

 

[Inspireless Llama]

It is personal then. In your case, think about why Sniper Elite and Call of Duty are different games to you and try to define them separately. Maybe you need to add an additional genre onto the FPS genre for one of both of them. Sniper Elite is primarily a game about being stealthy, so maybe a Stealth FPS?

Well maybe, but if I start looking at my Steam Library I would prefer to have all games categorized in less than 20 categories haha. Last time I categorized them I used a categorizing tool, leaving about 40 or more categories. I still don't have an overview of my games then. So in my library to simplify things I would put Sniper either under Stealth or FPS, but since I don't have a lot of Stealth FPS games, I prefer not to create a category with that .

I forgot to put it in my original post but part of the reason of this topic is because I wonder how much confusion there is about what genre a game is while posting in a subforum here. When playing RDR2 single player I would talk about it in RPG, but I think I saw topics under Action & Adventure.

 

[PioneerRaptor]

That's why I categorize by game status. My steam library is broken up into "Currently Playing, Not Started, Try Again, Continuous (meaning games without true endings)"

If you want less categories then you have to define your own genres and figure out how what goes where.

As for the forums, I highly doubt it matters too much so long as your decision makes logical sense. In this case, since it's already posted in Action & Adventure, then that's where it goes. As for other games, if no one has posted it anywhere, just post it where you think it goes best. I'm sure if it's really important a mod will move it.

 

[Zloth]

It's a fraggin' mess is what it is. An RPG is a game where defining how your character(s) develop over time is a major activity. It's got ZILCH to do with role playing now. It's only called that because the first games in the genre were based on pen & paper role playing games. (And even in those, people tended to "role play" themselves.) You can certainly get some role playing in RPGs but it isn't defining the genre at all.

Shooters, on the other hand, are games where combat is frequent and done with ranged weapons.

Of course, with shooters defined by the combat and RPGs by how much your character can develop, it's quite possible for a game to be both. Such games are called RPG/shooter hybrids - or at least they were, I haven't heard the term in some time.

Then there's the action games. As near as I can tell, they are shooter/RPG hybrids that are long on story and not terribly deep on skills. If there's a lot of stealth and multiple ways to solve objectives then it might be an interactive sim, too.

Pah. I'm all for burning down the whole system and starting over.

 

[James]

Those games you mentioned are actually simulations, because they're trying to accurately "simulate" a real world thing. Or their strategy. The two overlap a more than alot of other categories.

Simulation covers a lot of things, like it simulates running a business, it simulates running a farm, it simulates driving a race car.

RPGs involve a roleplay/communication or "acting" quality. It should involve some kind of story, or deep character statistics.

Genres can overlap, Final Fantasy Tactics is an RPG Strategy game. Borderlands is an Action RPG.

 

[Round]

If I'm playing Red Dead Redemption 2 I feel like I'm playing a RPG.

I totally agree with you there. I found that embodying Arthur in that game, despite his being a fully voiced and pre-written character, made me feel more connected to any custom protagonist I could have created. I think the animation work does a great deal to help that, especially the surrounding elements such as how minutely you can change up his clothing. The many micro-situations you can respond to also work at building your interpretation of who he is.

For example, later on in the game, when a large piece of character development is revealed, I found myself playing him as a much more humble character. I felt that's how he'd respond to the situation. I was less interested in starting fights with NPC's that instigated disputes, and cared less for wearing expensive city-fashion or curating a premium collection of horses. I just wore my old cowpoke gear and spend time with one of the first horses you get in the game.

Part of that was my own imagination, but for the most part it just felt right to do. It felt like real role-playing. This made me realise that even if you don't have any skill points to assign or levels to gain you can still have a wholesome RPG experience. I feel like in a world of endless colour-coded gear and passive/active abilities seeing good writing hold most of that role-playing weight is a breath of fresh air.

 

[MeFirst]

In the last 10 years, I stepped away from using what is basically marketing terms and buzzwords thrown around.

I try to see what a game is actually doing and use that as a definition.

 

[Zloth]

RPGs involve a roleplay/communication or "acting" quality. It should involve some kind of story, or deep character statistics.

There seems to be very little roleplaying in RPGs. With a pen & paper game, you're free to make any sort of personality you can imagine. With an MMO, you've got the ability to use chat (or even voice) to establish a character, though you're still stuck with the game parameters. With single player RPGs? You're stuck with the options given.

Now even a few options aren't zero options. I had quite a bit of fun playing two characters in Dragon Age: Original Sin that would sometimes disagree. Though there's plenty of JRPGs out there where there's actually no character choices at all. The original Final Fantasy 7 jumps to mind. There, you're watching the story play out. Cloud will be the same guy for everyone.

Genres can overlap, Final Fantasy Tactics is an RPG Strategy game. Borderlands is an Action RPG.

I think they overlap so much that they have lost their usefulness. Shooters all have stories these days - the days of games like the original Doom where you just go from level to level, shooting everything you see until the game finishes are long gone. Now Doom has a story. You can also upgrade your armor and weapons to suit your playstyle, which is very RPG'ish.

In fact, think about a game like Endless Space. There's a story there for every race, plus several smaller stories. You've got several generals where you pick skills for them. In fact, your empire itself could be seen as the main character of the game. The tech tree is somewhat similar to a skill tree, too.

What I would rather see is some sort of representation of the kinds of fun you have with a game (or at least are supposed to have). For instance, Endless Space is heavy on strategy and building things up from scratch, medium on exploration (heavy in the early game, light in the late game), light on story, completely free of dexterous action. We would have to figure out what types of fun people have and give them better names than 'dexterous action' but I think it would work a lot better. IF we could get people to learn and use it.

 

[James]

I'd still say the genre are distinct, even if they've stolen gameplay elements from each other.
Just because Doom lets you upgrade your weapons, it doesn't make it an RPG, just like how finding a new weapon in an RPG doesn't make it a FPS because you find new guns in Doom.

An RPG is primarily CHARACTER focused. That's why Endless Space isn't an RPG.
Controlling a whole empire, to the micro level, makes a game not an RPG.
A game where you're the emperor and you give orders and have to wait for their outcome that you have very little control over would be like an RPG.

Doom isn't an RPG even if you only focus on one character, Doomguy, because you don't really spend any amount of time focusing on his character. Borderlands kind of is, because you kind of focus on the character you pick, and choose specific ways to customize them.

It's a lot about "feeling" though. Truck Simulator makes you feel like you're driving a truck, it DOESN'T make you feel like you're a truck driver.

 

[Inspireless Llama]

It's a lot about "feeling" though. Truck Simulator makes you feel like you're driving a truck, it DOESN'T make you feel like you're a truck driver.

I'd agree with that, but in that case it could be different for everyone right? Where as you feel like you're driving a truck, it might make me feel like a truckdriver. So for you it would be a simulation game, while for me it might be an RPG. Just to clarify, it isn't. But just to say some games or categories might be personal.

Just like some people would call RDR2 an Action / Adventure game while Round states it would be an RPG for him, because he really feels connected with Arthur.

You say that an RPG is primarily character focussed, but not all those games are considered an RPG I believe. I think "Life is Strange" is heavily character focussed and not an RPG. With Dishonored I'm not sure, it's also character focussed but I believe it's considered a stealth game and not an RPG right?

Borderlands is an RPG, but while you focus on your character with skills, you can't choose how he or she behaves, besides the kind of guns they use.

When playing Tomb Raider (the new series at least) I felt like it's heavily character focussed, but you can't change the story. You can also choose what to skill (and somewhat define how you play the game), but still it's considered a platformer I believe, or Action / Adventure maybe but not an RPG.

But to make the discussion a bit wider again, there was an article on PC Gamer a while ago where they talked about the Steam category "masterpiece" and what wide of content there is, while nothing makes clear what a masterpiece actually is.

PCGamer about masterpieces

 

[James]

Right, so Life is Strange and Tomb Raider would fall in the "Adventure" category, and that would be where the "set character" would make it not an RPG. Truck Simulator might also be an RPG, even though you have a little more choice in where you drive your truck, I would say what makes an RPG is you could choose not to be a truck driver.

The problem with that Masterpiece category is that it's a public voted thing, so it's a bit infected by subjective bias. And also trolls/jokers, which is how you get Garfield Kart on there.