Headphone random conversation

[Colif]

I now understand for music you want a fairly neutral tuning as the music has already been mixed and EQ'd anyways.

I have learned its best not to generalise. People want different things, hence bass boost and IEM that are too bright, are a thing. I didn't really know what I wanted when I started... just not bass boost. But you can go too far in other direction.

Is there a way to fix that in Windows? I want the opposite actually. Where the db level is on volume 16/100 currently, I want it at like 50/100. I essentially want the IEMs to be a bit quieter, but not too quiet. It wasn't uncommon to have my headphones turned up past the 70/100 volume mark, but again these IEMs get unbearably loud around 30/100.

i should really stop editing threads after posting

Your IEM have 3.5x less impedance than your headset. They are also probably more sensitive to volume increases. So your Headset DAC is pushing more power out than is necessary. It lacks the control needed for IEM. Its not really rare, a lot of amps are too loud for IEM. High Sensitivity can also mean they can hear hum on amps that have high impedance...

You probably get away with this (Crin mentions at end)

KA15

KA15, Decoding and Headphone Power Amplifier

www.fiio.com

seems it has desktop mode which lets you use a charger cable and bypass battery so you don't need to worry about it running out of battery while you run it. Correction, it has no battery, but it will run off the power lead and not drain device its attached to. It has 3 levels of gain which would let you set a volume you want.

Fiio seem to like the cassette look

 

[Zed Clampet]

Wandering around the last few days, I think that a lot of audio reviewers have a natural distaste for any headphone that ups the bass. They don't say that they don't like it, but then the review scores they give are always lower than the pure, flat monitors.

 

[Colif]

Wandering around the last few days, I think that a lot of audio reviewers have a natural distaste for any headphone that ups the bass. They don't say that they don't like it, but then the review scores they give are always lower than the pure, flat monitors.

Its a matter of taste really. It really can come down to what sounds good to them. It can take time to find a reviewer who likes the same things as you do.

They might be a little snobby, and a lot of the cheaper headphones do have a lot of bass, as that is what most people think they want. Some are right, some just don't know any better.
Reference flat tunings might give them more room to EQ their settings onto. I don't really know, its not something I do Its better to find headphones that don't need it

IEM is there is more choice, you can find mega bass IEM or ultra bright, and everything in between. I think I prefer balanced approach between Bass and Treble... being old I don't have to worry too much about spikes as I probably can't hear them.

 

[Zed Clampet]

Its a matter of taste really. It really can come down to what sounds good to them. It can take time to find a reviewer who likes the same things as you do.

They might be a little snobby, and a lot of the cheaper headphones do have a lot of bass, as that is what most people think they want. Some are right, some just don't know any better.
Reference flat tunings might give them more room to EQ their settings onto. I don't really know, its not something I do Its better to find headphones that don't need it

IEM is there is more choice, you can find mega bass IEM or ultra bright, and everything in between. I think I prefer balanced approach between Bass and Treble... being old I don't have to worry too much about spikes as I probably can't hear them.

I used to use IEMs all the time, and I might use them during summer when it's gets a little hot. (I have the air conditioner set on 72, but I still have to have a fan blowing on me). I just have better headphones than IEMs, so the sound is a lot better on the headphones.

 

[Colif]

I used to use IEMs all the time, and I might use them during summer when it's gets a little hot. (I have the air conditioner set on 72, but I still have to have a fan blowing on me). I just have better headphones than IEMs, so the sound is a lot better on the headphones.

That probably comes down to preference. I have had way more pairs of cheap Earbuds before I swapped to IEM, so I appreciate the difference. I stopped buying over ears early on as its easier to block out the world with earbuds/IEM. Just turn up the volume. Most of my headphones used while I am travelling on buses so its why earbuds were what I stuck to. As I said, easier to block out the world with them.

I had lots of bad ones. The only pair that stand out in my memory were a pair of Sony ones that came with my Minidisc. They were good and it made me keep buying Sony for a while. I never really had a fav brand.
Earbuds too easy to break the cable and most don't have removeable cables, so its time to buy a new pair.
So far only pair of IEM I damaged got a bad cable, but it was under warranty and I got a new pair - they are my spares. I haven't listened to them since I got my Braindance.

Over ears... before I got the last 3 pairs that I still own, none really stick out in my head. I may have had some koss a long time ago... I didn't know anyone with amazing ones so I mostly ignored them. Most of the stores in town would just sell crap. They had a captive audience until the internet came along. They still would if it didn't exist. Glad I don't have to restrict myself. Although I have only bought one pair from OS so far... the Araya. Way cheaper than what I would have got locally.

 

[Colif]

You can choose...

Or you can have both. I have the Hiby R6 Pro 2 2023 version and the Fiio M33 R2R
Main reason to buy Fiio was the extra power, lets me use all my headphones instead of just some of them.

I haven't turned the Hiby on since I got the Fiio. I needed to get used to it.

I will have to check to see if he right about gain levels. I didn't know that could be the case.

 

[Zed Clampet]

You can choose...

Or you can have both. I have the Hiby R6 Pro 2 2023 version and the Fiio M33 R2R
Main reason to buy Fiio was the extra power, lets me use all my headphones instead of just some of them.

I haven't turned the Hiby on since I got the Fiio. I needed to get used to it.

I will have to check to see if he right about gain levels. I didn't know that could be the case.

I've been tempted to buy one for awhile, but I know that I simply wouldn't use it enough to justify it. The only thing that might tempt me more would be if it could play android games, but apparently they aren't good for that. What is shocking to me is the price, which is more than a smart phone, sometimes a lot more.

But since the android game market is bigger than the android music market, wouldn't it make sense to better support games?

 

[Colif]

Fairly common question

DAP makers are small fish, Phone makers get the dibs on the fastest parts, and DAP makers are using SOC that are several years old now.

My DAP has a Snapdragon 680 released 4 years ago, and they only just started using it this year. Its only the flagship DAP that have SOC that are modern enough to play most games. And they cost more than phones

That also applies to memory as well, 4gb or 8gb is common. Flagships would be on 16 now if it were another time.

Screen size isn't massive, and refresh rate isn't on the top 10 features list when making a DAP

DAP = Digital AUDIO Player, not Digital Media Player. They mainly designed to play music, not play games.
people still try.

The reason why they more expensive than phones is associated with how they are different to phones.
All the audio stuff inside. Most use more than just a simple dac to convert the audio. They will have better built dacs and amps and power systems designed to reduce interference.
They also have audio jacks and take sdcards.
They all change android so that it doesn't use the Android drivers to output sound, as those change its output type and compress signal (if you were able to try to play FLAC through your phone, its going to resample it to a lossy format and compress it). DAP output FLAC as intended, no conversion. There is software on some phones that can bypass these drivers.

They not all expensive, I just don't like small screens. You can get them for less.
I also prefer Android ones as they allow streaming apps.

Cheapest android one here is 250. but if you just play files loaded on an sdcard, cheapest is 85..

https://store.hiby.com/collections/music-player

 

[neogunhero]

I think it's been about two weeks since I got my IEMs? Used the Kiwi Ears Cadenza II's every day since I've got them, I would estimate that I've used them for 20-25 hours now, I think that's around the time people say they "burn in". I can kind of tell because they sound a lot more natural to me now than when I very first started using them.

I really love them. Everything sounds very crisp, clear, good mix of bass and treble. Bass was a bit low, but I fiddled with the EQ and raised it just a bit. I get they're meant to be fairly neutral and balanced, but I like more bass, easy fix. Music sounds the best on these than anything I've used before.

Games sound very good as well, though the lack of surround sound was something I knew I was going to run into. When I play games that need it like FPS games, I turn on Window Sonic which is decent for its purposes. Voice acting sounds like the people are talking right next to me. Sound effects can sound more realistic.

For $40 this was a great buy, they're very lightweight, don't hurt my ears at all, included like 12 total ear tips so I found the perfect ones for me. I like how the backing is made of metal. Cable is a bit flimsy, has that cheap phone charger feel to it, though it's braided which helps a little. I can always swap it out later if I want. Good set for my very first IEMs.

 

[Colif]

I think it's been about two weeks since I got my IEMs? Used the Kiwi Ears Cadenza II's every day since I've got them, I would estimate that I've used them for 20-25 hours now, I think that's around the time people say they "burn in". I can kind of tell because they sound a lot more natural to me now than when I very first started using them.

Burn in can also be you getting used to them more. Its not just equipment that may change as you listen to them, you do as well.

12 and found perfect... lucky, some tips are too small or too big. Does help to try them all. Some IEM are too big/small as well, I have a pair that just fall out of my ears. Should try some of my other tips on it. One thing about Dunu, they give you plenty of tips... think I got about 30. Tried them all and I think I ended up with the ones I tried first. Some are hard to get on the IEM.

You are not going to get an amazing cable for 40, in a lot of cases the cable is what costs the most. But if cable dies, you can replace it... IEM can use any cable. I killed too many IEM because the cable broke. Not IEM, Earbuds... ugh

As long as you happy.

 

[neogunhero]

Burn in can also be you getting used to them more. Its not just equipment that may change as you listen to them, you do as well.

12 and found perfect... lucky, some tips are too small or too big. Does help to try them all. Some IEM are too big/small as well, I have a pair that just fall out of my ears. Should try some of my other tips on it. One thing about Dunu, they give you plenty of tips... think I got about 30. Tried them all and I think I ended up with the ones I tried first. Some are hard to get on the IEM.

You are not going to get an amazing cable for 40, in a lot of cases the cable is what costs the most. But if cable dies, you can replace it... IEM can use any cable. I killed too many IEM because the cable broke.

As long as you happy.

I was thinking the same about the burn in. At first they sounded pretty tinny to me, that could because the gaming headset I used before had the bass turned up a lot. Now they sound very natural, some music sounds like I'm in the room with them. I don't have FLAC files or anything, I just use Apple Music with Hi-Res Lossless on, probably not the best audio quality but I suppose it's better than standard MP3 quality.

I was wondering that about the cable... any that you'd recommend specifically? Also, do they all use the two-prong connector? Thought that was a bit weird, never seen one like that before. I don't think I need to change it out now as I'm perfectly happy with it, but I do wonder what the difference in cable quality makes.

 

[neogunhero]

What Apple's website says about their Lossless codec:

Most audio compression techniques lose some amount of data contained in the original source file. Lossless compression is a form of compression that preserves all of the original data.

Apple has developed its own lossless audio compression technology called Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). In addition to AAC, most of the Apple Music catalog is now also encoded using ALAC in resolutions ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.

While the difference between AAC and lossless audio is virtually indistinguishable, we’re offering Apple Music subscribers the option to access most of the Music catalog in lossless audio compression.

But then:

What you need​

You can listen to lossless on a PC with the Apple Music app for Windows using:

• The built-in speakers
• A wired connection to headphones, receivers, or powered speakers
• An external digital-to-analog converter to listen to songs at sample rates higher than 48 kHz2

I don't think that DAC that came with the gaming headset supports higher than 48kHz. I don't even know what that means exactly. It's literally just a little box that plugs into the PC with USB and you plug your 3mm aux into that little box. I don't think it's seriously a DAC. Might be missing out on quality here.

 

[Colif]

I don't think that DAC that came with the gaming headset supports higher than 48kHz.

it wouldn't as it was designed to power gaming headset, not hi res files. So it does what it needs to do.

Much debate over if you can tell difference between them, it is opinion and its hard to win that fight. I don't know if I can but I feel its better to have too much than not enough.

there is only one way to find out, and that dac won't do it.

a cheap dongle would probably do it. The Apple dongle would do on their phones but not sure what its like on PC.

Apple Music does not use exclusive mode (such as WASAPI Exclusive) on Windows
Without exclusive mode, the app does not automatically switch your DAC to match the native sample rate of the song you are listening to. Instead, all audio is resampled to a fixed bit-depth and sample rate set in the Windows Audio Device

I wonder why apple didn't mention that last part. Windows overrides the bitrate of anything played through it unless App supports exclusive mode.

 

[Zed Clampet]

it wouldn't as it was designed to power gaming headset, not hi res files. So it does what it needs to do.

Much debate over if you can tell difference between them, it is opinion and its hard to win that fight. I don't know if I can but I feel its better to have too much than not enough.

there is only one way to find out, and that dac won't do it.

a cheap dongle would probably do it. The Apple dongle would do on their phones but not sure what its like on PC.

Apple Music does not use exclusive mode (such as WASAPI Exclusive) on Windows
Without exclusive mode, the app does not automatically switch your DAC to match the native sample rate of the song you are listening to. Instead, all audio is resampled to a fixed bit-depth and sample rate set in the Windows Audio Device

I wonder why apple didn't mention that last part. Windows overrides the bitrate of anything played through it unless App supports exclusive mode.

not really what you all are talking about, but low quality was one of the reasons I stopped buying music on iphone. That and they erased all the music I had added from others sources when I got a new phone.

 

[Colif]

if your source of music is Apple music, you not going to have a good experience in Windows. Its not like Apple want you using Windows... That Headset DAC might not be able to play files higher than 48, but it doesn't matter as the source is only 48 now anyway. To get hi res out of Apple, you need to use their devices... hence reason I have never used Apple Music.

Its only in the last 3 years I used any streaming services. I just listened to my CD's until then. Now I hardly listen to them at all.

I use Tidal, it can use exclusive mode in windows. I could attach my dac to PC and set it to exclusive, and output music at a bitrate higher than 49 - up to 192 or in some cases, 352,8k but thats probably an MQA file that Tidal hasn't replaced yet.

I was thinking before, I could also attach dap via exclusive mode and use it as well... but that is so pointless as DAP has all the music apps and can just play Tidal without a PC. I only have two DAC that would be used in this mode... and the other one attached to my Wiim which also has Tidal.

Exclusive is as it sounds, so you can't listen to anything else while its got rights to output. It can be annoying remembering to turn it off after. Go to watch Youtube and have no sound. I used PC for more than just music so using it for music didn't last long.

Spotify supposedly has Hi Res now but their app doesn't either by pass Android drivers on Mobile, or doesn't use Exclusive on PC, so its a trap. Not sure I would use them even if it does work as I don't want to hear adds in my music.

 

[neogunhero]

I honestly would have better audio quality if I just plugged the IEMs into my phone. Too bad all phones these days have gotten rid of the audio jack. Any recommendations on budget DACs?

 

[Colif]

I assume you don't want a desktop one, although it would at least work on PC as well.
Bluetooth/USB portable

Bluetooth AMPs & DACs

Bluetooth AMP & DACs have changed the way we enjoy high-resolution music with our smartphones. With these you no longer have any wires, adapters hanging out of your smartphones, simply connect it with a Bluetooth DAC/AMP and explore the world of your favorite music with great resolution and...

hifigo.com

https://hifigo.com/collections/portable-1?sort_by=price-ascending (USB dacs)

https://hangout.audio/products/jcally-x-crinacle-ap6 say hi to crin while you at his website

I don't really know which is best Dongle, but Moondrop, Fiio, Hiby& Shanling are names I have seen before

Not sure what counts as budget. Below 100?

 

[Colif]

One advantage new dap has over the old one, it can run all my headphones.

I could have probably attached these to the old one but I doubt it sound very good

My most expensive combo, DAP was 1100 and Headphones were about 1350. But that combo will never leave my room. The headphones really not ideal for outside. look funny and can fall off head easy. That is why I have IEM (Prices in AUD)

My desktop amp can run them better, it only needs about 55 volume while the DAP needs about 90 in high gain. The Aune doesn't have gain levels, but its got 5 watts. it doesn't need them. It could kill my hearing and those headphones.

glad dap resets volume settings when you plug new headphones, that volume lvl dangerous for IEM.