Games refunds policies need extending

[mjs warlord]

Steam current refund policy is based on less than 2 hours use or owned for 2 weeks , i dont know what the refund policies are for other games clients are as i only have a few on Epic and GOG.

As more and more games are being released on early access we face more and more bugs that need sorting in a lot of cases you can be well over the 2 hour limit before you find out that certain sections of a game are making it unplayable but its too late for a refund.

On a couple of occasions i did manage to get a refund outside the time limit and i think i only got them because i said something like take a look at what others are saying about the problems were having

 

[DXCHASE]

I would agree on an extension of the time, maybe up to 4 or 6, i feel most games should have a free demo still too. Even though i would personally know if im keeping a game after say 30 minutes or so, i know that the time is counted for a lot of factors that have nothing to do with someone gaming, ie troublshooting, connecting to servers etc.

 

[Colif]

haven't you seen the people who try to beat the entire game before the 2 hour period ends so they can have their cake and eat it?

I don't buy enough games without looking into them first to really worry about the refund period. Never used it.

 

[ZedClampet]

There are simply too many people who abuse the refund system for it to change too much. I see people nearly every day who don't think there is anything wrong with finishing a small indie game in 2 hours or less and refunding it. If we expand it to 4 to 6 hours, it's just going to be worse. As @Colif says, if you do your homework, you shouldn't need, in most cases, the refund feature anyway.

 

[Colif]

finishing games too fast reminds me of a snes game I rented one weekend and we finished it in 4 hours... I was enjoying game and thought there was a second map and was sad to find there wasn't. I couldn't get a refund back then.. most games lasted long enough to play for the entire rental period.

that was um... almost 40 years ago now...

 

[Brian Boru]

I think 2 hours/weeks is fair enough. Bigfish Games has always had a 1-hour demo of every game since before Steam existed, but no refund—play the demo, read the reviews, and take your chance. I've never seen any complaints against that.

I'm also on the other side of this fence, selling in the digital marketplace for over 20 years, and I can confirm what the guys said above about abuse of the refund system. Of course, every such abuse is not a lost sale—but still it's very easy for those on the receiving end to view it as such.

Bugs with PC is not limited to gaming, it can and does happen with any software. That's the nature of PCs, and 'It just works' has always been an advantage of Apple, consoles, and other closed systems.

If you add Early Access into the mix, then you increase the odds of experiencing a problem—but that's the nature and purpose of EA [in theory anyway], known to all beforehand. If it doesn't suit, avoid it.

 

[mjs warlord]

haven't you seen the people who try to beat the entire game before the 2 hour period ends so they can have their cake and eat it?

I don't buy enough games without looking into them first to really worry about the refund period. Never used it.

Somebody on a discussions page once told me that if steam suspect you are abusing the refund policy they have the right to refuse future refunds.

In the olden days when you could only get games in a shop you became the licence holder as soon as you opened the box. If you took a faulty disc back they would say we cant resell it as licences are not transferable.
Why would you want to re-sell a faulty disc.

 

[Colif]

I bought a new bit of hardware last week, the shop has a 3 week change of mind return policy but you can only return one item every 6 weeks. I don't buy things based on how soon I can return an item, but its nice to have.

It does explain why they have so many open box sales. If people try something and don't like it, they can sell it to someone else for a lower price.

I only return things if they don't work. Only done that twice in last 24 years. Probably longer as I don't remember ever doing it before 2000.

Why would you want to re-sell a faulty disc.

profit. They might keep reselling it until people stop complaining.
PC stores been known to resell items sent back for RMA.

 

[Brian Boru]

If you took a faulty disc back they would say we cant resell it as licences are not transferable.

I don't recall meeting that obstacle. Stores would return faulty discs to distributor or manufacturer for credit.

Why would you want to re-sell a faulty disc.

If the fault was an incompatibility of some kind—rather than a broken disc—then it's fine to resell. Occasional incompatibilities are normal in PC world.

 

[Hitobat]

I think the 2 hour policy on Steam is reasonable.

If anything it's punishing the shorter games, where people can refund it after playing the whole game.
See https://www.pcgamer.com/indie-dev-l...anks-to-exploitation-of-steams-refund-policy/
There's also the speed running aspect, which is enough that there's even a game based around the concept.

Refund Me If You Can challenges you to beat it in under 2 hours

Steam's refund window causing laughs, rather than woes, for once.

www.pcgamer.com

But for most normal games I think 2 hours is reasonable to decide if you're having fun or not playing.
And hopefully you read the steam reviews, youtube previews, etc... beforehand right?

As for this comment;

As more and more games are being released on early access we face more and more bugs that need sorting

I full on disagree here. Early Access is flagged specially on steam for a reason. If you're buying early, it's because you are investing in the idea/concept behind the game. Or alternatively you believe that the game "as it currently stands" is worth that price you're paying. Even if no further development happens, which includes no new features and no bugfixes.

If anything, I feel that the current state of the stand-out Early Access titles is encouraging this behaviour. Many are simply so high quality that it's hard to find many bugs at all. But still you should expect that things are choppy and be pleasantly surprised when they're not.

 

[Zloth]

I don't think speed running would be an issue. Speed runners have to practice in order to get those times down., right?

 

[Colif]

it might depend on how hard game is. If your aim is to just get to end of the game, most times they just run past everything.

I wonder how many failed attempts there are at trying to beat a game in that time, and not being anywhere near end by 2 hour mark. I expect they just return game and try another game until they get a video to upload. I doubt they take requests.

Speed running to beat someone elses time... that takes practice... maybe, depends on time. Most even totally obscure games now probably been speed ran by someone so finding an achievable time is getting harder.

But if its just to finish game, its not as hard.

You could speedrun Journey easy in under 2 hours. Game is only about 90 minutes long. The world record is 17 minutes.

 

[Hitobat]

I don't think speed running would be an issue. Speed runners have to practice in order to get those times down., right?

Yeah I think after Colif's comment I think speedrunning particularly is less a problem than I thought.
For someone who's intent on skipping most of the game content and to quickly get to the end, then from a refund perspective maybe they didn't experience enough of the game in 2 hours to justify forcing them to pay.

I suppose my real point is that it feels like this policy dis-incentivies developers to make those shorter story-driven games. For example, they might be tempted to un-necessarily stretch out the game an extra hour just to avoid Steam refunds.

Some games in the kind of category I'm thinking of are:
* Gone Home
* Assemble with care
* Brothers: A tale of two sons (maybe, it feels short but probably still a bit over 2hr)