Your opinion on BOSS-BATTLES?

[ToxicOffender]

I once read this nice article about BOSS-BATTLES, where a guy claimed they are in fact nothing more than a relic from 80s-Arcade-Machine-Era, being more or less "useless" these days with most video-games and how some of them actually broke his overall experience with certain games, let alone that "fear" kicking in whenever he was about to return to the same BOSS-BATTLE over and over again for days or even longer, just to lose again and again. This guy was speaking my mind!...at least to some point.

I always hated those "traditional" BOSS-BATTLES certain devs obviously think are still a mandatory thing EVERY "traditional" video-game has to have, yet they mostly do nothing else than breaking the flow of an otherwise nice game along with artificially stretching the playing time for several more hours...hours of sweat, pain and anger not really worth the experience in certain cases, in my opinion.

Now you probably think i´d hate games like DARK SOULS, SEKIRO (...uhm..well..i already gave up when i encountered that &/§#*% Madame-Butterfly-*****, but it´s still a lovely game!), ELDEN RING, TITAN SOULS or other similiar titles, but that´s not the case at all.

What i mostly hate is the sheer STUPIDITY of certain devs and how they can **** up an overall-experience by making certain BOSS-ENCOUNTERS more a pain in the ass rather than something i would call a "nice" experience. That starts with forcing you through a more or less useless level or area already being hard enough, you have to repeat everytime before you´re about to fight a boss, or the classic...watching an unskippable 1-minute cutscene everytime before the battle starts.

Now happily i just mentioned the worst things, which aren´t happening too often. Now what is happening on a more frequent occiason, are BOSS-BATTLES being a little "too hard" compared to the rest of the game, what results in "breaking the flow" of a game to a point where i am often close to just de-installing that crap and moving onto the next of those hundreds of titles i haven´t played yet.

That latter thing was a "slight" problem with STAR WARS JEDI: THE FALLEN ORDER in my opinion! I was enjoying the game on JEDI GRAND MASTER difficulty-level, but the BOSS-BATTLES on this level were a real pain in the ass to me, it took me far too long for each battle and i didn´t had in mind to spend months on the same game only because of its BOSS-BATTLES!

BUT...happily SWJ:FO had the option to CHANGE DIFFICULTY-LEVEL IN-GAME! A feature i actually don´t feel too welcome, but with this title it saved my life...or better say...it saved my time with having fun, otherwise i would have just gave up on it. So whenever a boss-battle was at hand, i switched back to JEDI-MASTER difficulty, just to get back to JEDI GRAND-MASTER difficulty as soon i killed off whatever son of a boss-***** i had to take on.

And well no! I am not someone who plays games on NORMAL let alone EASY difficulty, I in fact tend to start most games on the heaviest mode (except RTS-Games).

Now if I have no problem with the game on EXTREMELY-BUTT-UGLY-TERRIBLY-MEGA-HARD difficulty but keep struggling with BOSS-BATTLES, then in my opinion devs ****** up with them, as in my opinion, BOSS-BATTLES shouldn´t be so hard that they easily tend to break the flow of a game with making gamers struggle with one and the same boss for several hours, days or weeks.

 

[Frag Maniac]

Not that you don't make some good (but rather obvious) points, like having to endure long unskipable cutscenes or gameplay segments before restarting a boss fight being idiotic, but I think your approach lacks common sense in ways. For one, no one in their right mind takes on a game with lots of boss fights on the hardest mode first run, then blames the devs for them being so hard they upset the flow of the game. Good boss fights take time and often more than one playthrough to master. I played Fallen Order on Jedi Knight thru Jedi Grand Master, and by the time I got to Grand Master I knew full well what tactics work best on the two hardest bosses, mainly a lot of Force Push.

I'd MUCH rather do that than blame the devs and dumb down the difficulty, instead of earning my full Grand Master win with some painful trial and error. And if you truly do like Dark Souls and other such games, that should be nothing new to you. There's a reason they call them "Boss" fights. They're not supposed to be anywhere near equal to the difficulty of the rest of the game. Even in real life it's rare people have bosses they totally love, and most hate their jobs, some even dread going to them daily.

I'm not here to tell you "git gud", as I don't bother at all with Dark Souls games, because I've never had the patience, reflexes, or dexterity for them. I'm just saying don't expect so much of yourself the first playthrough. There's no shame in taking a playthrough or two to figure out a game well, before delving into the hardest mode.

 

[ZedClampet]

"Common sense" is relative [mod edit].

In other words, "common sense" is nothing more than what a "majority" of people think is usually "normal" and i have no clue what exactly you want to tell me with your way of "common sense", but you probably can´t follow me on this at all just exactly because your "common sense" ain´t the same as my "common sense".

Common sense isn't overly relative. It involves logic more than, say, an opinion would. But I would agree with Frag that if you start a game on the highest difficulty then you should simply accept what comes your way. Blaming the developers for hard being hard doesn't make much sense. And, yes, bosses are supposed to be harder than the rest of the content.

I'm kind of ambivalent about bosses. I do like the fact that they break up the normal game-flow, but that's also a bad thing at the same time.

My biggest complaint regarding boss fights is when they are designed to last a huge amount of time. I quit Halo Tactics, a game I was really enjoying, because the first boss fight took too long.

There have been several threads on this theme if you want to search them and see what people said.

Kind of OT, but are you a native English speaker? I'm just curious because you have an unusual writing style. That's not intended as an insult.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I love boss fights if they're done right. I like them to be challenging, but not too hard. Zelda's way of doing it is pretty much perfect. If you can figure out the weakness, then it's not too hard. Just take them down 3 times, and you beat them. But I don't like them if they're insanely hard. They need to be more of a challenge than common enemies, but not so hard you're beating your brains out.

But man, I do like them. They do a good job of adding the feeling of milestones. You get a greater sense of accomplishment.

 

[Frag Maniac]

What titles are you talking about? Did i mentioned any titles when i said "I start most games on hardest difficulty?"

No, not in that particular part of the post you didn't, but you did before that say...

"Now you probably think i´d hate games like DARK SOULS, SEKIRO (...uhm..well..i already gave up when i encountered that &/§#*% Madame-Butterfly-*****, but it´s still a lovely game!), ELDEN RING, TITAN SOULS or other similiar titles, but that´s not the case at all. "

...so how is it you know you don't dislike those games if you've not played them, speculation maybe? At any rate I think you're overreacting as much to my post as you are the work of developers of games you've played, particularly Jedi Fallen Order. The only complaints I've seen more absurd about that game are the many arachnophobes that insisted the spiders be taken out, but at least they have an excuse that's an actual disease.

I'll leave well enough alone though, I knew dang well I was being baited into a wall of emotional text the moment I glanced at the thread, only to see the same when reading your response. Looks like you at least picked an apropos screen name though.

 

[Frag Maniac]

Common sense isn't overly relative. It involves logic more than, say, an opinion would. But I would agree with Frag that if you start a game on the highest difficulty then you should simply accept what comes your way. Blaming the developers for hard being hard doesn't make much sense. And, yes, bosses are supposed to be harder than the rest of the content.

I'm kind of ambivalent about bosses. I do like the fact that they break up the normal game-flow, but that's also a bad thing at the same time.

My biggest complaint regarding boss fights is when they are designed to last a huge amount of time. I quit Halo Tactics, a game I was really enjoying, because the first boss fight took too long.

I feel boss fights mostly serve a purpose of not only a climax in the story and gameplay, but a much needed challenge for the many whom expect them in games focused on combat. Sure there are some that give you fits, but the only ones that affect me that way are the ones that take a long time, or have ridiculously specific reaction timing requirements, with no checkpoint before that part of the fight. There's very few I can think of I've had that problem with.

I love boss fights if they're done right. I like them to be challenging, but not too hard. Zelda's way of doing it is pretty much perfect. If you can figure out the weakness, then it's not too hard. Just take them down 3 times, and you beat them. But I don't like them if they're insanely hard. They need to be more of a challenge than common enemies, but not so hard you're beating your brains out.

But man, I do like them. They do a good job of adding the feeling of milestones. You get a greater sense of accomplishment.

Yeah, as old as I am I have to take my time anymore and find alternative ways, like in Doom Eternal. I use momentary cover and pace my combat clearing one small area, then another, instead of trying a lot of crazy aerial combat like some can do. I lack the reflexes and dexterity for that, but the mind can conquer too.

 

[Barukanen]

It really is dependant on the mechanics, theatrical nonsense and most importantly the LOOT!

If we take the game "PC Gamer Forums" for example, you end up with the following series of events from the boss battles.

First off, you'll come across @Colif in his lair.. you'll find it difficult to avoid all the anti Diablo leaflets as you open the door to him and once the battle has started he will constantly use his Level 5 speech to disorientate you throughout the battle. But you do get a nice Mephisto statue if you succeed.

Next up is the tricky @Brian Boru this one is also quite fun, if you enjoy **** versions of Monopoly. The layout is based on his famous board game, you'll travel around the board visiting various mixture of levels based on shitty places in Ireland, except you don't pass Go on this board and collect $200... For every time you pass Go the difficulty increases with Brian unleashing hordes of Leprechauns. Brian usually has an unfair advantage being located at the centre of the board, throwing @HenrykForkbeard style Viking ships at you along the way. Though upon defeating the tyrant, you're rewarded with a nice cool glass of Guinness.

Thirdly... The ever so sweet @Frindis not much is known about this one, as you're usually banned by @Brian Boru or @Colif before you reach Frinny.

There's also cool secret boss levels like @WoodenSaucer room of plates and cutlery and of course @Pifanjr Purple Pain Pocket which is R-Rated.

But yeah, boss levels are cool if done properly, don't have repetitive mechanics, are interesting & unique. And of course offer loot, loot and more loot.

 

[Brian Boru]

Pity we can't do the LOL AND Love It for the same post!

 

[Colif]

@Lutfij must be the hidden Boss fight no one lives to tell the story about. Half the community think its just a myth that such a creature exists. The other half are too afraid to tell them its real.

No one makes it past the Brian fight. The devs just cheated and didn't bother ending game after him. It just goes to black. The Guinness is a picture, Brian already having finished real glass years before and his desire for more is what makes beating him so hard.

 

[Frindis]

As a few have mentioned boss battles should be done well. If not, then it can be a bit of a chore, like for example the final boss in Half-Life 1, which wasn't really that hard, but just an incredibly boring boss to fight.

 

[Barukanen]

@Lutfij must be the hidden Boss fight no one lives to tell the story about. Half the community think its just a myth that such a creature exists. The other half are too afraid to tell them its real.

No one makes it past the Brian fight. The devs just cheated and didn't bother ending game after him. It just goes to black. The Guinness is a picture, Brian already having finished real glass years before and his desire for more is what makes beating him so hard.

I knew I forgot a bloody Mod! I was trying to remember Lut name, god dammit.. @Lutfij So sorry, you will feature in your own spin off series next time I post some radical nonsense.

 

[Lutfij]

I don't do spin-offs, I have my own show that began all shows! I am the Zlatan Ibrahamovic of all shows!

 

[Foxhood]

Boss battles are a tool. They can be used poorly, they can be used well, they can be part of the core identity.

A good approach to bosses. Are those that act as like a final challenge using mechanics you may have picked up in the area leading up to them. A final exam to "have you mastered this?". Nintendo games tend to have this down pat

A middle approach. Are more generalized difficulty spikes. Your typical (mini-)bosses in shooters and RPGs and the likes. Can go both ways depending on whether the devs managed to get the balance right and didn't accidentally up the difficulty to 11 (it is easy to forget the average gamer's skill)

A BAD approach are bosses that can lock you into a nigh impossible death-mill. Particularly if the game allows you to go for builds and you went for something utterly useless. Deus Ex Human revolution pre-cut is the prime example of that since if you went pacifist stealth: you may aswell been a paper-napkin fighting a hurricane...