The book discussion thread

[Brian Boru]

Movies—yep
TV—yep
Music—yep
So where's the book thread? Can't find it, so guess this'll have to do until it shows up. My reading days are mostly done—changed interests, deteriorating sight—but I devoured anything in print in my teens and 20s…literature, non-fiction, scifi, thrillers, mysteries. Never took to drama or poetry in a big way, mostly only for school and college work.

Novels, novellas, drama, poetry, etc etc—all are welcome

Short Stories

Let's start with a poor relation, sandwiched between the upper class Poetry and the hoi polloi Novel. In my reading days I loved short stories—what it says on the tin, devoted usually to a single theme in a single location during a single time span.

Drawing on memory, some of my favs:
William Trevor, Seán Ó Faoláin and Frank O'Connor, probably Ireland's top 3.
Edgar Allen Poe, Ernest Hemingway and O Henry in USA.
PG Wodehouse, Arthur Conan Doyle, Roald Dahl, Joseph Conrad, GK Chesterton—yeah, Brits like a shorty
Isaac Asimov and Ray Bradbury, masters of scifi shorts.
Forgetting some for sure, it's been a long time…

I used to usually have a short story book going along with a novel, dipping into either depending on time available.

So what about you and short stories?

 

[Zloth]

Short stories? I've read the Wheel of Time and (what's been released of) The Stormlight Archive. 'Short' now means anything under 500 pages.

I think I've got a couple of books with a bunch of Asimov short stories, as well as one by Bradbury. I've got a grab-bag collection of short stories that had a couple of really good ones, too, but I can't find it right now. (My books are sorted by author, I'm not sure where I put ones with a whole set of authors!)

Normal books that were/are favorites:

• Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: funniest thing ever, in any medium. The first two books were so funny that I couldn't read them in public - I would make too much of a spectacle of myself because I would be laughing so hard and so often!
• Most books by Roger MacBride Allen: The Hunted Earth series was shaping up to be so good, but never got finished. Still worth reading, IMHO, for the interesting aliens and hard science fiction. He did a series of three books (Caliban, Inferno, Utopia) as a follow-up to Asimov's robot books, which I somehow managed to lose. He did an excellent one called The Modular Man that I've also managed to lose. He also did a pretty good set of 3 Star Wars books.
• Asprin's Myth series: funny and smart. Follows a "wizard" as he fends off demons, vampires, and the mafia using is one spell, a lot of help from his friends, and some epic levels of chutzpah.

And that does it for the A's. I better stop here.

P.S. Honorable mention to the XBOX 360 game Lost Odyssey. It had a bunch of excellent short stories! Not quests, actual stories you read off the screen while some sound effects play in the background. That game needs a remake in a bad way.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I dont sit down and read very much anymore, but I listen to a fair amount of audiobooks. Some of my favourites from last year, other than Brandon Sandersons Stormlight Archive which is really good.

Railsea by China Mieville. Which was kind of a steampunk far future science fiction about a world where humans live on islands among a huge network of railtracks maintained by mysterious automated trains that people have no understanding of. People sail trains on the Railsea like boats and giant moles and other mammals are hunted like whales. Its as weird as it sounds, but very well written from start to finish.

Non Fiction: Quiet by Susan Cain. About how introversion and being quiet is painted as a negative trait in modern western society and why that is not necessarily true. Also goes into the history of this, how it hasn't always been the case, and how confidence came to be valued more than competence in a lot of ways to the detriment of businesses and society.

Jews Don't Count by David Baddiel was also really interesting. About how in a world that is rightly calling out many of the old prejudices and trying to exorcise them, many progressives have a blind spot when it comes to casual prejudice against Jews in general.

 

[ipman]

Here's the Book Thread (I'm glad you've added comedy to the YT and Random, I was thinking of a comedy thread for later).

(I should try audio books, I used to read about 4 hours a day, but I'm just so lazy, busy[wood carving today] , gaming, etc )

Two short story books that stand out;

Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha, the story of a debauched hedonistic prince who gives up his lifestyle and possessions and becomes a wandering aesthete who gains enlightenment through such actions as contemplating a river.

Jorge Luis Borges's Labyrinths, I seem to remember one story involved a king asking a map maker to map his territory, but the map becomes so detailed that it covers the land itself.

Another Pierre Menaud, Author of the Quixote, in which an author intends to recreate word for word and line for line, those of Miguel de Cervantes. So he has to learn Spanish, recover the Catholic faith, fight against the Moors, forget the history of Europe 1602-1918 to become Cervantes.

I friend of mine bought this book second hand from a shop for about 20 pence, I borrowed it and it blew my mind!

Borges was influenced by; H. G Wells, Chesterton, William Dunne, Novalis, Poe, Mallarme, among others and sent me off reading their books.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Loved Siddartha, but it was a long time ago and don't remember much other than I liked it a lot.

Sorry @Brian Boru I totally missed the point. As far as short stories go I dont read a lot, but a couple come to mind. Haruki Murakami had a book of short stories I read some of a couple of years ago that I quite liked Blind Willow, Sleeping Woman.

In American Gods Neil Gaiman wrote a short story about a poor Cornish woman named Essie Tregowan who was a small time criminal. She was transported to the U.S as punishment for her crimes and took her belief of the pictsies there with her, its a very sad but beautiful story. You'd have to buy American Gods to read it though

 

[givemejalapenos]

The last book I "read" was Pierre the Maze Detective: The Search for the Stolen Maze Stone. I put read in quotes because it's a hidden figures book that depicts Pierre tracking down the thief of the Maze Stone where every two pages present the reader a new environment. There's challenges in each environment like finding so and so figures. It's a beautifully artistic and fun book with few words, that is nice and big so it can be shared with a finding partner.
I plan on buying the other books to read through.

 

[Brian Boru]

short story books that stand out;

Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha

I had to read that in the original in college It's definitely not a Short Story, you probably mean short novel, which it is, even tho not generally classed a novella… yeah, whatever

2 others of his I liked were Steppenwolf and my fav The Glass Bead Game.

Sorry @Brian Boru I totally missed the point

No worries, I missed you missing the point!

Neil Gaiman

Oh yeah, both he and Amanda Palmer are interesting individuals

 

[ipman]

Loved Siddartha, but it was a long time ago and don't remember much other than I liked it a lot.

I think there are a few books and that was one for me, that make you question say the Western Dream and reappraise your priorites.
I only remember that much of it, although I am the sort of geek who made notes from everybook I read, fiction or fact. Great though when I came to write 10- 20,000 word essays at Uni.

 

[ipman]

I had to read that in the original in college It's definitely not a Short Story, you probably mean short novel, which it is, even tho not generally classed a novella… yeah, whatever

2 others of his I liked were Steppenwolf and my fav The Glass Bead Game.

You'll just have to be more specific, 'a short story will not consist of no more than ***** words'

I preferred Steppenwolf to Glass Bead, personally. I'd say that Steppenwolf and Crime and Punishment are two novels where I felt I was experiencing the character's feelings in the story.

I think at one time educators chose the books that were important to them but maybe not that suitable for school or college students. So the novels either went over students heads or even put them off books. Shakespeare at school, I got.

 

[Brian Boru]

be more specific

Wouldn't that be nice? Short Story
"Determining what exactly defines a short story has been recurrently problematic."
"Short stories have no set length."

Crime and Punishment

Dostoevsky beat me
I made multiple attempts to read that and Karamazov, but could never stick it thru to the end. Depressing. Same with some others, like Ulysses—too dense.

Shakespeare at school, I got

Yeah, me too—I loved Hamlet, and enjoyed Macbeth and Julius Caesar. I'm not a drama guy tho, apart from those, Shake's sonnets were my preference.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I should make notes, would help me to remember things better. Definitely remember connecting with Siddartha, a friend gave it to me and told me I would like it a long time ago.

I have a copy of Steppenwolf here, that I read a portion off and stopped for some reason. Should probably try and read that at some point as I found something in Hesse I liked.

Haven't read too many of the classics. I didnt enjoy Heart of Darkness, and I've never tried to read any Dostoyevsky or Joyce, its just never appealed to me for whatever reason. My loss I guess, still time.

National curriculum was established in England in 1988 apparently, I expect they still study a lot of Shakespeare now, I certainly had to.

 

[ipman]

I'm really into the audio book idea now. I listen to music all the time, at night more ambient (white noise type), so could add a layer of voice over that, maybe even see if that subliminal learning idea works!(I don't listen to music outside so 24/7 is a lie).

Something I do is watch a film like Apocalypse now and then went and read Heart of Darkness. Have read some Japanese short stories as well.

I read about six Dostoyevsky's, but in terms of Russian short stories, Gogol is probably an easier way in.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I struggled with Conrad because there's so much description and I have a really hard time picturing images in my head, so it just all feels like filler to me. I don't think its quite Aphantasia, but maybe a touch of it if that's possible. I never have an image of what characters look like when I read for example, maybe a vague feeling of the setting but not many details at all.

Loved Apocalypse Now though, great movie.

 

[ipman]

I struggled with Conrad because there's so much description and I have a really hard time picturing images in my head, so it just all feels like filler to me. I don't think its quite Aphantasia, but maybe a touch of it if that's possible. I never have an image of what characters look like when I read for example, maybe a vague feeling of the setting but not many details at all.

Loved Apocalypse Now though, great movie.

I think I'm the opposite, I can remember virtually every image I've every seen, partly through studying art, and like people's faces, but can never remember their names. There is a Veritasium video where he dispels the myth that we either have image based or word based memories, but I'm not convinced.

I also use that visualisation technique where I imagine I'm on a beach, lying in the sun, waves lapping when I go to the dentist. It works for me.

You know how our senses filter out massive amounts of incoming data, otherwise modern life would be impossible.
I walked around listening to the world through a microphone-device-headphones and that removed the filters, so now I can hear too much, hence the music to block the outside world.

I also wondered if it's true out minds are always active, then why not stimulate them.

I did read some Joyce, but not Ulysses although certain books like that are considered important shifts to Modernism. I'll try the audio book and see what I think, it might with it's style be suited to that format.

 

[Colif]

The last book I read was by Terry Prattchett, it was also his last book as he had died before it was finished. I didn't really want to read it.
All the authors who wrote like him are gone or I have read all their stories.
Douglas Adams was just as mad.

• The inside out house where the only sane man in the world lives and has put the world into an asylum.,
• Learning to fly by missing the ground and making gravity not notice you. What ever you do, don't think about how impossible it is.
• Marvin the paranoid android.
• the Pan Galactic Gargle blaster.
• The Joo Janta 200 Peril Sensitive Sunglasses.
• The Krikkit robots,

Okay, I will stop.,

That and my eyesight has gotten worse and its easier to read off a monitor... yes, I know. E books.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I think I'm the opposite, I can remember virtually every image I've every seen, partly through studying art, and like people's faces, but can never remember their names. There is a Veritasium video where he dispels the myth that we either have image based or word based memories, but I'm not convinced.

I also use that visualisation technique where I imagine I'm on a beach, lying in the sun, waves lapping when I go to the dentist. It works for me.

You know how our senses filter out massive amounts of incoming data, otherwise modern life would be impossible.
I walked around listening to the world through a microphone-device-headphones and that removed the filters, so now I can hear too much, hence the music to block the outside world.

I also wondered if it's true out minds are always active, then why not stimulate them.

I did read some Joyce, but not Ulysses although certain books like that are considered important shifts to Modernism. I'll try the audio book and see what I think, it might with it's style be suited to that format.

Visualisation doesnt work for me, so no memory palaces or anything help. I can kind of summon up patterns, colors and fractals, but real stuff doesn't come to me. I remember facts quite well though, names and dates and numbers are not really a problem. Maybe there's something in what you say about visual/word based memory, guess its a most likely a spectrum of mixed approaches.

I spend a lot of time outside, so plenty of time for audiobooks.

@Colif finally read The Shepherds Crown? I still have quite a lot of Pratchett unread, I have them all up to Thief of Time, and I read the Wee free Men at some point. That leaves 14 apparently I dont own and havent read. Lovely chap, sad loss, lot of wisdom and kindness in those books.

 

[Zloth]

• Learning to fly by missing the ground and making gravity not notice you. What ever you do, don't think about how impossible it is.

Why? That's basically how orbits work. Say you're on the moon and you throw a ball straight toward the horizon. It goes extra far because of the weak gravity and lack of air, but gravity still brings it down. Now throw it way harder. The ball goes further, of course, but even a little further than you would expect because the curvature of the moon's surface bends away from the ball a little - a bit like throwing a ball from the top of a subtle hill. Keep throwing it harder and harder and, eventually, you'll throw it so hard that the rate gravity pulls the ball down will match the rate at which the moon's surface curves away from it. The ball will then be in orbit because you MISSED THE GROUND!

• Marvin the paranoid android.

That wasn't paranoid. Not even a little. I think Zaphod called him that, but Zaphod spent most of his time out of his skulls. Yet the name stuck for some reason.

That and my eyesight has gotten worse and its easier to read off a monitor... yes, I know. E books.

Or audio books. Pricey, but good actors can read them really well. (Or so I've heard, I haven't done an audiobook yet.) Ummm, you're hearing is still fine, right?

Now let's see, where was I? Oh yes... the C's. Jack Chalker was a big favorite of mine. He kept re-using some ideas too much, but he knew how to tell a good story. He's most famous for the Well of Souls novels. I liked the Wonderland Gambit series better, which went through a bunch of different alternate-Earths. The Soul Rider series was probably the most "Chalkerish" series, with his best at his best and his worst at his worst. Finding out how the world worked was stunning, but I can't imagine anyone getting through those books without screaming "Dude! SERIOUSLY!?" somewhere along the way.

 

[ipman]

Or audio books. Pricey, but good actors can read them really well. (Or so I've heard, I haven't done an audiobook yet.) Ummm, you're hearing is still fine, right?

I was checking earlier and audio books are free on YT and probably elsewhere. I used to download YT videos to a USB stick so it could be a solution.

If you think about the history of a humans telling stories to other humans to keep their heritage and culture alive, that predates the written word. Just saying

 

[Frindis]

A book thread, awesome!

I'm currently reading Coffee and Cigarettes by Ferdinand von Schirach, At the Existentialist Café: Freedom, Being, and Apricot Cocktails by Sarah Bakewell, Invictus by Sunniva Lye Axelsen (not translated into English), book by Thomas Seltzer (Norwegian band artist) called Amerikansk Karmageddon: Tanker om mitt fordømdte fedreland (not translated into English) and poem from Charles Baudelaire called Flower of Evil from his Les Fleurs du Mal collection.

 

[Brian Boru]

Heart of Darkness

I loved Conrad, one of my top 3-4. Read a bunch of his at the time—Heart of Darkness, The ****** of the 'Narcissus', Lord Jim, The Secret Agent, Typhoon, Nostromo… Wonderful writer.

never tried to read … Joyce

Try Dubliners, it's a bunch of short stories and more accessible than his novels. If you're still alive after that, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is probably his 'easiest' novel—the only one I got thru.

I'm on a beach, lying in the sun, waves lapping when I go to the dentist

dum dum dum dum dum dum

Have you heard the original song they were going to use for the Jaws theme?

audio books are free on YT

Pirated, or official?

keep their heritage and culture alive, that predates the written word

Likely to be limited tho. There are many projects to collect oral trads and record for posterity, and protect long-term via the written word. There's so much has been lost because it was oral only.

I'm currently reading…

Ok, we need you back on track, man. Deep breaths.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I dont think Audiobooks are expensive relative to paper. At least Audible gives you a book credit every month for the subscription fee of €7.99 (I think), and you keep any books you buy if you cancel. There's a catalogue of audio books included in the subscription for that price too. You get a small discount on bulk credits too if you want extra anytime.

Maybe I'll try Conrad again one day @Brian Boru, its possible I'd like it more now than I did as a teenager. Joyce too

 

[ipman]

Try Dubliners, it's a bunch of short stories and more accessible than his novels. If you're still alive after that, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is probably his 'easiest' novel—the only one I got thru.


dum dum dum dum dum dum

Have you heard the original song they were going to use for the Jaws theme?


Pirated, or official?


Likely to be limited tho. There are many projects to collect oral trads and record for posterity, and protect long-term via the written word. There's so much has been lost because it was oral only.

Yes I read Dubliners and A Portrait of the Artist... Which makes me think of Orwell's many books I read like Down and Out in Paris and London, etc. Along with G K Chesterton, two of my favourite Brit authors.

Are you saying my dentist is a shark I've come across one I described as a 'butcher'. But even when they took out a wisdom tooth root, kneeling on my chest for leverage, I was numb and on the beach.

I'm not so sure about lost oral traditions. I think it depends on your perspective. The only way early tribes could tranfer important knowledge about the location of food and water, record historical tribal and personal events, warn of dangerous animals or other tribes, and keep a cohesive community was through the story tellers.

The Australian Aborigines did that through story telling and paintings over an 80.000 year span(Another great book, Bruce Chatwin's Songlines as a way in). Jesus only spoke Aramaic and none of his stories were written down at the time, so must have been passed on orally.

Also read Kafka's Metamorphosis and The Trial. The first can be interpreted in many ways, fantasy that hints at psychological or sociological issues. Sometimes stories work on two levels and the subtext is only hinted at because the writer lived under a repressive regime.

 

[ipman]

I dont think Audiobooks are expensive relative to paper. At least Audible gives you a book credit every month for the subscription fee of €7.99 (I think), and you keep any books you buy if you cancel. There's a catalogue of audio books included in the subscription for that price too. You get a small discount on bulk credits too if you want extra anytime.

Maybe I'll try Conrad again one day @Brian Boru, its possible I'd like it more now than I did as a teenager. Joyce too

I wonder if some books are more suited to certain times of life, or to times a person might be experiencing.

Another on my list is Proust's À la recherche du temps perdu.

Also read quite a bit of French Literature. Also French Philosophy and Psychology(at Uni). I often think that translations are harder, not only in terms of language but also between different cultures.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I wonder if some books are more suited to certain times of life, or to times a person might be experiencing.

No doubt in my mind about that, Its true for me about movies and games as well.

 

[ipman]

No doubt in my mind about that, Its true for me about movies and games as well.

And some songs of course.
Life and How to Survive It By John Cleese and Robin Skynner helped me at one time. + a few others that helped me make sense.

I think a book of short stories by Woody Allen, Side Effects is just so clever and funny, I know I can re-read it when I need a lift.

I mentioned a book by Borges, that idea of a map that covers the land is the idea of a simulation representing the real.