The book discussion thread

[Johnway]

Well truth be told whilst i read books much of it is sci fi and by sci fi i mean the horus heresy there's like 70 books in the series, spin off series etc for it. An absolute sci-fi epic for a key lore/backstory in Warhammer 40k history. ATM, i'm, reading the spin off series of the HH: the siege of terra; basically they've made the final battle on earth/terra into its own spin off series. Currently reading the 3 book in the series: the first wall - The rebel forces have finally gained a foothold on the ground having captured the outer trench works of the imperial palace, now comes the task to crack open the main walls of the palace proper.


But what have i been reading besides HH? I've been mostly trying to catch up on the classics and older stuff. read 1984 for the first time and i got to say it was really good. Well written and engrossing stuff. I'll eventually get around to reading brave new world, once i've finally finished off the siege of terra stuff.

Speaking of Fascism, i was recommended jason stanley's book: How fascism works. Another interesting book and sort of an educational guide of the tactics/ploys that the far right uses to gain support to make people support some seriously awful things and gives real world examples.

I am also interested in understanding the backstory of human misery sometimes such as how and why it could happen and be more informed of less well known stuff to get some context on it. One that interested me was the rwandan genocide and how a country just turns on a minority ethnic group and justify it - So i read we wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our families by Philip Gourevitch. A pretty comprehensive look on the whole event, not just the genocide itself, but also the back history, the aftermath of the genocide and also the clean up process.

I did read a road side picnic that inspired the STALKER series but meh, it was ok. I was expecting more after playing the game, but its fine.

I read william gibson's sprawl series last summer. Neuromancer i liked and being written in the 80s it was kinda ahead of its time with its influences (not sure if ridley scott's bladerunner influenced it or vice versa). Truth be told i kind of lost interest following the finer details of the plot at times. Then again, i had covid and it was far too hot in the summer to concentrate properly. I did read Count zero and mona lisa overdrive that has reoccurring characters return but honestly those were even more harder to focus on.


Gaming wise, i read the biographic the masters of doom. I enjoyed that one a lot as it painted a rather interesting story of ID software when they first started and the eventual collapse in the friendship of john romero and john carmack. Also i read the Brigador novel which was ok i guess. I was hoping it would have been some sort of epic backstory filling in the blanks etc but tbh it ends on a sort of cliff hanger and nothing really resolved. Kinda like the game i guess.

 

[Frindis]

Finished up Coffee and Cigarettes by Ferdinand von Schirach. I liked to book. It has 48 small stories, most about people he meets throughout his life and career. Some of the stories are sticking with me, like this one:

In one of the stories, he mentions that he visited Sweden to attend an art conference. Sweden is very into art, so it is not weird at all to have an art conference in the middle of nowhere, which was exactly where he was going. He goes through his presentation a couple of times and when it is time to get on the stage he notices that there is only one other person in the audience. He takes the stand and gives a good talk, treating it like the room is full of people. He finished up and gets applause. As he is about to leave the room, the other guy gets on the stage to do his talk.

 

[mainer]

Just finished The Lost Metal (Branddon Sanderson) the final book of the 2nd Era in the Mistborn universe. An excellent ending, if a bit bittersweet, and an excellent blend of humor, tension, suspense, and action. I highly recommend the Mistborn books to anyone, just start with the first Mistborn trilogy and read all the books in sequence to get a better understanding of the characters & events.

@Zloth - I see now why you often mention the Cosmere and how it may affect books in both the Mistborn and Stormlight series. It became more apparent to me after finishing The Lost Metal, as there were several references to other worlds, such as Roshar and the Shadesmar, both from the Stormlight novels. And there were also the Ghostbloods in The Lost Metal that also played a huge part in the Stormlight books. There are all these connections between two entirely different worlds (Scadrial & Roshar), that I can't help but think that somehow, eventually, he's going to connect them all together through the Cosmere.

Thank the gods that Sanderson is a more dedicated writer, and visionary, than GRRM, as we'd never live to see the culmination of his master plan.

 

[Brian Boru]

GRRM

Is it time to change from an acronym to a more descriptive representation? Like Grr M.

 

[Zloth]

...that I can't help but think that somehow, eventually, he's going to connect them all together through the Cosmere.

They certainly will, though I'm not real sure how time is going to work out. If I remember right, the next era for Mistborn will be a science fiction setting. At what point in time is the Stormlight series over in the Mistborn books?

The Shards are going to war for certain, though. I wonder if there will be somebody who can <ahem>
UNITE THEM?

 

[ipman]

Finished up Coffee and Cigarettes by Ferdinand von Schirach. I liked to book. It has 48 small stories, most about people he meets throughout his life and career. Some of the stories are sticking with me, like this one:

In one of the stories, he mentions that he visited Sweden to attend an art conference. Sweden is very into art, so it is not weird at all to have an art conference in the middle of nowhere, which was exactly where he was going. He goes through his presentation a couple of times and when it is time to get on the stage he notices that there is only one other person in the audience. He takes the stand and gives a good talk, treating it like the room is full of people. He finished up and gets applause. As he is about to leave the room, the other guy gets on the stage to do his talk.

The story sounds part dream, part absurd existentialism. Like it

I did read a Salman Rushdie book, Midnight's Children, mostly seen to remember Indian life centred by some women cooking up spritual chutney.

Also enjoyed Huxley's short stories, Music at Night. Much more depth than his famous novel.

 

[Frindis]

@ipman Have not read anything by Rushdie, so that book is going on my list.

 

[ipman]

I was wondering if Norway is a bit like Japan, in that it has a strong sense of it's own culture.
I have read Ibsen, when I got into plays.

Should also mention Iain Banks, Kurt Vonnegut and Luke Rhinehart(Cockcroft), The Dice Man.

 

[Frindis]

Funny you mentioned that, I am currently reading the book called: Landet Mot Nord (the country to the north) by Mona Ringvei. The book tells a large slice of our history and talks about both known and unknown people that were part of shaping our country and its culture. I actually noticed the book after watching Princess Ingrid Alexandra of Norway 18th birthday celebration (it was one of her gifts) from last year and had completely forgotten about it when I noticed the book on a stand in our local library yesterday. Talk about luck!

We learn a lot about our history at school and through our local communes/county which each often has its own distinct tradition through songs, art, costumes, food, etc. Often these traditions get highlighted when we celebrate our constitution day, which was signed in Eidsvoll on the 17th of May 1814. Then you'll often see people from different parts of Norway showing their own traditional rural clothes and also more modern festive clothes. It is often hard to tell them apart. They are also quite expensive so these clothes are often passed amongst the family members.

We also do a lot of typical things in Norway, like skiing a lot, eating brown cheese with strawberry jam, tending to reindeer and huskies, opening for tourism everywhere it is possible (we love visitors) doing whale safaris, climbing mountains, skiing some more, driving boats and fishing a lot (Fish is one of our major export incomes), going to open-air concerts with breathtaking views of nature, going to different museums (especially in school we visit different museums to learn more about our history), reading folktales, sitting in parks drinking and enjoying music and sun, "børning" with cars around the local roundabouts, sitting in cars side by side at the local gas stations listening to country (a smaller demographic), having strong student tradition both within different fraternities, student politics, and regular student life. The list goes on ... Here is a funny slice of Norway:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebqdwQzmSHM

Yes, we do have a strong sense of our own culture, especially since we have had to fight for it on several occasions, like in WW2. I also think there is a limit as to how strong a sense of the culture there is. A lot is learned from school and then a lot is forgotten, like the early history timeline and up to around the reformation and I think you have to be particularly interested in dwelling deeper into that history due to the fact that you don't normally talk about it. So, I have some holes myself, but I try my best to fill those and get more information about my own history,

Are we like Japan in having a strong sense of its own culture? I don't know that much about Japan, but I do think they are similar to us in some aspects, especially when it comes to local traditions and food, their hospitality, welfare, and export business in some parts, and obviously as a democracy. They also have an emperor that works kind of like our own King Harald V of Norway. They have their own ingenious people called Ainu like we have the Sámi. Interestingly enough Japan had its own shoguns when we had different kings trying to rule in the same time period.

 

[ipman]

That's interesting to hear about. It's just from the amount of novel writers, play writers and DJ/producers I came across from Norway, it gave that sense of trying to keep that strong sense of culture.

I think many countries especially those that keep their languages alive and dominant manage that. Hence my reference to Japan.

Often there's an overlap between the UK and US in terms of culture, although I think the two countries are very different sensibility wise.

 

[Brian Boru]

strong sense of culture

Do you think that's a good thing, for different communities to have their own culture?

 

[ipman]

Do you think that's a good thing, for different communities to have their own culture?

I think it's an issue that may communities and countries are grappling with as we humans move more towards a global society. It seems to help if like Japan, they were slightly isolated geographically and being made up of islands. They do absorb western culture but it often seems to be a fashion or fad to mainly their youngsters.

Other countries, their language protects them to a degree from cultural colonisation, like France and maybe Norway. French philosophy, psychology and social sciences are dominant, mainly taught at uni(Derrida, Deleuze, Foucault, etc). Brit music seems to be our the main global cultural output.

So although our culture and sense of community is both environmentally, historically and culturally based, I think in a virtual landscape different values may take precedence.

I did read Haruki Murakami, 'After the Quake'; short stories and a novel by Yukio Mishima, 'Runaway Horses', which has a section on Zen Buddhism.

 

[SHaines]

I wonder if some books are more suited to certain times of life, or to times a person might be experiencing.

This is a question that's been with me since I was four years old. I used to think the answer was absolutely yes, in just about every instance. I've since come to realize that we view things as emphatically true only when we're missing some important context. For just about everything there's no one right answer.

Instead, I now view books as a sort of fun house mirror. They reflect who you are as you read them, but it's designed in such a way as it shows a side of yourself you may not see every day.

I've read the Catcher in the Rye over a dozen times and what I thought the book was about at 14 was very different from how I viewed it at 40. We have a chance to gain new insights by revisiting old works from new perspectives.

My worry with ideas that some books are better for some groups is that we discourage people from other groups of exploring the concepts, thus stripping them of any insights they might gain into a different community. That's not something being done here, but I do encourage folks to read books that aren't exactly what you're used to since learning new perspectives is so important to shaping well-rounded people.

 

[ipman]

This is a question that's been with me since I was four years old. I used to think the answer was absolutely yes, in just about every instance. I've since come to realize that we view things as emphatically true only when we're missing some important context. For just about everything there's no one right answer.

Instead, I now view books as a sort of fun house mirror. They reflect who you are as you read them, but it's designed in such a way as it shows a side of yourself you may not see every day.

I've read the Catcher in the Rye over a dozen times and what I thought the book was about at 14 was very different from how I viewed it at 40. We have a chance to gain new insights by revisiting old works from new perspectives.

My worry with ideas that some books are better for some groups is that we discourage people from other groups of exploring the concepts, thus stripping them of any insights they might gain into a different community. That's not something being done here, but I do encourage folks to read books that aren't exactly what you're used to since learning new perspectives is so important to shaping well-rounded people.

Yes it's undoubtable that having a wider perspective expands the understanding and mental processes.

I was thinking about Catcher in the Rye, when I mentioned Vonnegut, Rhinehart and Banks; all were in some way aimed at adolescents or slightly older(marketing/ financial reasons).

But Catcher comes under the 'classic' heading and therefore matures with the readers increased knowledge.

When you say a 'fun house mirror' reflecting back, I'm not sure how many of us ever see ourselves, but maybe we can be more sympathetic to characters we understand or can empathise with. I don't know!

 

[Frindis]

Finished the Charles Baudelaires Les Fleurs du Mal collection. Oh man, definitely not my style of a poem for the most part. I tried to read through most of them, but it was just so much about love/sex, drinking, despair, death, sorrow and so on. I can understand how he trampled on some toes back in the late 19th century as this was very unusual for its time. He lay the foundation for a more modernistic style of writing poems as I understand it. Some of his poems would be censored for over 100 years!

There are some poems that stick out for me, so everything was not just doom and gloom. In one poem (forgot the name and book is returned) he writes a poem about an annoying person on a train that talks and talks and talks about how great his life is and all of his accomplishments. The other person that unfortunately has to listen to it desperately tries to be polite while finding a way to walk away from the madness. The way he writes about this person trying to lift his butt from the seat, but because of politeness can't quite do it, is brilliantly done.

 

[ipman]

Finished the Charles Baudelaires Les Fleurs du Mal collection. Oh man, definitely not my style of a poem for the most part. I tried to read through most of them, but it was just so much about love/sex, drinking, despair, death, sorrow and so on. I can understand how he trampled on some toes back in the late 19th century as this was very unusual for its time. He lay the foundation for a more modernistic style of writing poems as I understand it. Some of his poems would be censored for over 100 years!

There are some poems that stick out for me, so everything was not just doom and gloom. In one poem (forgot the name and book is returned) he writes a poem about an annoying person on a train that talks and talks and talks about how great his life is and all of his accomplishments. The other person that unfortunately has to listen to it desperately tries to be polite while finding a way to walk away from the madness. The way he writes about this person trying to lift his butt from the seat, but because of politeness can't quite do it, is brilliantly done.

I've dipped back into a few of those 19th century writers. I think many moved in circles where; radical ideas, breaking boundaries and revolution were normal talk. I wonder if getting a book/poem banned is the best promotion going.
I think it's possible to see how wars like WW1 had an effect on radical thinking. Many writers were sent to war, fantasy and imagination are over ridden by machines. Poets also had a new subject.

I enjoyed some of Flaubert's works. He looks at rural french life at a different time.

 

[Frindis]

Finished a poem collection called Kvit, Norsk Mann (White Norwegian Man) by Brynjulf Jun Tjønn. The collection is roughly about his experience of being adopted from South Korea to live in Norway in a small farming community (around 250 inhabitants). A lot of the poems describe his meeting with cultural skepticism and stereotypes and not really feeling like he is a part of the community. He talks a lot about wanting to look like a Norwegian as a child because he felt so different from everyone else.

It was not an easy collection to read through, a lot of it was sad and I got a bit angry at times at all the people treating him badly over the years. He writes at the end about bringing up four children but wanting his wife to be the first to take them to school, the doctor, or the birthday party because he just wants his children to make a good impression. It is quite heartbreaking to read and I hope that it has have gotten a bit better with age.

 

[Johnway]

Well that's another book finished, as previously mentioned i'm reading the Horus Heresy: The siege of terra: The first wall (book 3). As the warmaster's forces having successfully gained a foothold on terra, they attempt to capture the space port so that they can bring more forces and deploy titans into the fray. The story revolves around several key parts namely the Iron warriors attempts to capture the space port, a conscript regiment's harrowing journey to the imperial palace to fight and growing influence of the religion that venerates the emperor as a god and the dire consequences it brings.

I enjoyed the book, the characters are well written and there are various twists and turns as the imperial defenders try to buy time and delay the rebels long enough so that help arrives from across the galaxy. It partially plays out as 2 feuding brothers finally meet in battle as 2 siege masters clash and test each others skills.

Truth be told much of the Horus heresy books are quite hard to keep focus as there are a lot of characters and the siege of terra series brings the survivors from the past books together and much of the significance of these characters would mostly be lost if you don't pay much attention to the past series. The authors do try and write the story so no prior knowledge is required, but that said its a lot better to have some back story to flesh them out further. John Grammaticus finally makes another appearance in the epilogue, so it will be interesting what his part of the story will be. That said if you didn't read any of the books he appears you won't even know or care why John is written in.

So what next? Well, going have to keep reading the Siege of terra series to maintain awareness of the story and the situation. I'll be reading one of the side novellas before moving onto book 4: saturnine.

 

[Zloth]

I finished Tress of the Emerald Sea. Good stuff! It's billed as being inspired by The Princess Bride, and that's certainly fair, but what I liked was using brains to overcome obstacles instead of finding some ancient weapon or being a chosen one of some kind. The book really reminded me more of something from Robert Asprin's Myth series, where the main character(s) would seem to have nowhere near the power needed to overcome the obstacle but would come up with some clever solution using a disguise spell, a well-polished mirror, and a friendly vampire.

The story is also told by a narrator, which I don't remember Sanderson ever doing before.

 

[ipman]

There are some people and I only have to look at their faces to know they've got soul/humanity. Sam Shepard was one. I enjoyed reading a play by him, but also a book of short stories mostly about rural life.

But I just checked out more. 'The greatest American playwright of his generation'(New York magazine), experimental theatre, screenwriter for Antonioni's Zabriskie Point, worked with lover Patti Smith, worked with Dylan, numerous films often as a supporting actor incl: Black Hawk Down.
Joni Mitchell wrote two songs about their affair and he lived with Jessica Lange and had two children. Now that's how to live. I remember feeling sad when he died.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Ì finished Rhythm of War from Brandon Sandersons Stormlight Archive today. Honestly I'm torn on these books because of the pacing.

Spoiler

The last third to a quarter of them all are real page turners where everything comes together and I cant wait to find out what happens. The first parts of books 2,3 and 4 meander so much I struggle to focus and barely remember what happened to who. There are sections that are frankly pretty boring and I almost gave up with the series in this one. Not sure if its because I've had enough of it, or if Rhythm of War is worse about it than the previous ones, but it was a slog for me for quite a long time.

When everything starts coming together, its focused, I'm not listening (Audiobooks) to large sections and blanking parts anymore because its a lot of filler and I'm really invested in what happening. Even if it is always a variation on Kal or someone ascending to the next Radiant ideal to overcome Odiums plans. Leaves me excited to see where the story goes next.

Time for as change from Sanderson anyway. Picked up Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer, seems a shorter one which will make a change, and I really liked the movie which went some weird places, so if I click with the style theres another couple to read as well.

 

[Zloth]

Stormlight has had me page turning since Bridge 4 started trying to be clever with the bridge.

I've been reading the Ringworld series but hit a wall with the third book. The whole 'discover mysterious things about how the world works' aspect seems to be completely gone, and the main characters are barely side characters now. Ouch.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Yea maybe its just me, I do like the books a lot and there are moments that are really touching which doesnt happen to me with everything. I just wish I was as engaged all the way through them.

 

[Johnway]

A bit late, i had read a couple of books but unfortunately because i read them out of order, i couldn't really list them. So lets go through them in proper order:

Still reading the siege of Terra series. The first was a novella, the Sons of the selenar. We take a slight detour to the whole siege thing and return back to space with the few survivors of the Shattered legions; survivors of the dropsite massacre that not only fought their way off planet, but also continued to fight guerilla warfare. They;'ve been in a couple of books and side novellas and by this point they are running on empty, only a handful of survivors remain, the ship they use is falling apart and they have few resources left. The random warp jump after a fight has them arrive in the solar system itself - which by this point is firmly in hand of the traitorous Warmaster's forces. An unusual signal is heard from Luna of a mythical device (the selenar) that the warmaster is trying to steal. With few options, the shattered legions go on one final suicide mission to deny the warmaster the invaluable tech.

Not a bad read, its a bittersweet ending that leaves pretty much everyone dead but its a victory of sorts. Apparently the selenar has far more significance in the WH40k lore but what that is i don't know. Presumably the creation of primis marines but i don't know.


We move onto the next book in the siege of terra serious: Saturnine. The siege continues. The defenders continue to hold out and stall the rebels, but at great cost to themselves, with ever shrinking resources, Rogal Dorn - leader of the imperial fists and the leader of the defenders, has to face facts that they can't defend everything and has to sacrifice parts of the defense to defend the rest. At the same time the traitors identify a possible flaw in the defense which could break the siege and open the way for terra under saturnine quarter of the imperial palace...

The book is a tale of several stories, the first is the alamo style last stand at the second space port, the saturnine ambush and the various individuals on both sides taking part. its a bloody affair that sees many known (key) characters effectively killed off in battle. Dan abnett does a pretty good job of writing an entertaining fights with adjusting tempos and styles of combat from the vicious claustophobic battles in the saturnine cellers to the glorious final stand of the imperial forces against overwhelming odds. Again, bittersweet victory for the defenders, whilst significant victories happen, there are significant losses. We also get a brief snippet of who (or what the emperor of the imperium really is and his personality) Lets just say he isn't a nice person.

The final book was the novella the fury of magnus. The thousand sons have mostly been on the side lines of the siege as Magnus has his own plans to be come whole again. Magnus finally gets his chance to enter the imperial palace and realize some harsh truths about himself, his father and what really matters to him. More of a final act on the fall of magnus and his thousand sons legion although its a more tragic end and one that could have been avoided if offered a more reasonable deal.

 

[Alexmusster]

My favorite reader is Jack London. I've read all of his works a hundred times.