Should you put an axe in the game world if it can't be used?

[ZedClampet]

Chekhov's Gun principle states that "One must never place a loaded rifle on the stage if it isn't going to go off. It's wrong to make promises you don't mean to keep."

This is what just went through my head when I needed to break through some wood in a game and found an axe, but couldn't pick it up. That wasn't the solution to the puzzle, so the axe was just a decoration and couldn't be interacted with. Should it have been there at all? I say no. You shouldn't just decorate with abandon. You must decorate with purpose.

Additionally and related, when are games going to start fulfilling the Half-Life promise? How long ago was it since we first learned we could stack and climb on boxes? What have we learned since then? Basically nothing. What tech breakthrough has to occur before we can get games that are actual, real immersive sims? Will AI do the trick and be able to generate fast and easy game mechanics, maybe even "on-the-fly"?

 

[Zloth]

This is what just went through my head when I needed to break through some wood in a game and found an axe, but couldn't pick it up.

Yeah, that's cruel. They do have to put some stuff out there that you might want to use (e.g. doors and windows for buildings you can't get into) because the space would look silly without them, but it sounds like that axe could have been other things.

Additionally and related, when are games going to start fulfilling the Half-Life promise? How long ago was it since we first learned we could stack and climb on boxes? What have we learned since then? Basically nothing. What tech breakthrough has to occur before we can get games that are actual, real immersive sims? Will AI do the trick and be able to generate fast and easy game mechanics, maybe even "on-the-fly"?

I'm not following. Do you want to be able to move anything and stack them? (Like these guys) Or are you looking for a game that supports far more things than just stacking? Like a game engine smart enough to understand that wrapping a current around a metal pole will turn it into a magnet?

 

[Colif]

Games without props you can't use would be very empty... guess wouldn't need to highlight items you can pick up then but it would be a very dull game.

 

[ZedClampet]

Games without props you can't use would be very empty... guess wouldn't need to highlight items you can pick up then but it would be a very dull game.

But an axe is specifically a tool for doing exactly what the game wanted me to do.

I'm not following. Do you want to be able to move anything and stack them? (Like these guys) Or are you looking for a game that supports far more things than just stacking? Like a game engine smart enough to understand that wrapping a current around a metal pole will turn it into a magnet?

It sounds crazy, but I want us to make progress towards your second example. I think that AI can eventually get us there.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

There was an article the other day about how AI could potentially be used in the future to generate possibilities in games. Like you could actually invent things that others hadnt by combining materials according to the game logic

This browser-based 'endless crafting game' starts you off with fire and water, but it quickly escalates to God, the Big Bang, and 'Yin-Yoda'

Infinite Craft is Neal Agarwal's latest addition to a library of inventive free browser games.

www.pcgamer.com

"You can imagine a 3D Minecraft version where you can really create anything you want. We're not there yet⁠—but I'm really excited to see more experiments in this space."

Thats the kind of AI I can really support being used in games.

Anyway when you talking about stacking boxes my mind went straight to the GlooGun from Prey and how you could make stairways and block doors with it, a step in that direction at least.

 

[Pifanjr]

There was an article the other day about how AI could potentially be used in the future to generate possibilities in games. Like you could actually invent things that others hadnt by combining materials according to the game logic

This browser-based 'endless crafting game' starts you off with fire and water, but it quickly escalates to God, the Big Bang, and 'Yin-Yoda'

Infinite Craft is Neal Agarwal's latest addition to a library of inventive free browser games.

www.pcgamer.com

Thats the kind of AI I can really support being used in games.

I agree. Infinite Craft allowed me to combine "King Arthur" and "Dinosaur" into "T-Rexcalibur". It also allowed me to make "The Maple Dick University Marching Band". What more could you want in a game?

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I agree. Infinite Craft allowed me to combine "King Arthur" and "Dinosaur" into "T-Rexcalibur". It also allowed me to make "The Maple Dick University Marching Band". What more could you want in a game?

Amazing! Dare I ask what you combined to make the sticky marching band?

 

[Pifanjr]

Amazing! Dare I ask what you combined to make the sticky marching band?

I don't remember what exactly. Sometimes the game decided to just combine (parts of) words instead of making something new, so you can get pretty long combinations.

I do know that Moby Dick was involved in one step of the process.

 

[neogunhero]

No, because to me it’s the same as having a door that looks very openable but is not. It psyches the player out, gives them a false sense of “ohhh that’s the solution” just to later be disappointed. I understand the reason for decoration but don’t use props that look like intractable objects as decor. And for the doors, make it so there is no door handle or something similar to let the player know this is not the door you can interact with.

 

[Pifanjr]

To answer the actual question of this thread though, I think it's generally fine to have decorations and props you can't use. It's of course nice if you can pick up and use whatever is lying around, but I've played games long enough to be able to suspend my disbelief if I can't.

It's only marginable worse than carrying enough explosions to level a building and not being able to get through a broken door:

Though I do admit I stay away from Point & Click games because they often require very specific solutions to problems that often could have been solved much easier.

 

[Brian Boru]

combine (parts of) words instead of making something new, so you can get pretty long combinations

Let me know when it gets beyond…
Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft

door that looks very openable but is not

One of my pet peeves. Devs, can you make all openable doors green, pretty please?

Point & Click games because they often require very specific solutions to problems that often could have been solved much easier

Sadly, dat bee tru. Then again, those RPG bosses which take an hour of doing the exact same thing to defeat, aren't a big step forward

 

[Zimbaly]

To answer the actual question of this thread though, I think it's generally fine to have decorations and props you can't use. It's of course nice if you can pick up and use whatever is lying around, but I've played games long enough to be able to suspend my disbelief if I can't.

It's only marginable worse than carrying enough explosions to level a building and not being able to get through a broken door:

Though I do admit I stay away from Point & Click games because they often require very specific solutions to problems that often could have been solved much easier.

Or go "Hey I'll just reach my arm around this and undo the lock on the other side.

 

[Zloth]

It sounds crazy, but I want us to make progress towards your second example. I think that AI can eventually get us there.

It's not crazy, it's just hard. An actual model right down to the subatomic level would obviously never work - I doubt all the computers on the planet have enough memory to store the current state of a single glass of water, never mind do calculations on it. But higher levels might be possible. Physics engines are already trying with simple movements. Maybe throw in some quantum CPUs and you could do a lot more?

(Back in college, I dreamed of a "calculator" that didn't calculate answers, but searched the universe for some physical situation that matched the requested calculation, then watched the result and posted the answer. Now THAT is what I call crazy, but theoretically....)