Race Bonus Annoyances

[Zloth]

I'm starting to get real tired of racial bonuses - at least in the way they are most often done. "High Elves get +3 Intelligence and can learn an extra 2 spells per level." Great. Now nearly everyone rolling a mage will pick high elf. Sure, you can make a dwarven mage if you really want, but it will make the game harder than designed.

I don't really want to see racial bonuses dumped completely, either, with your race just essentially picking what model gets used in the game.

Instead, I would rather have more-or-less balanced choices. Maybe the dwarves get extra strength and constitution but they can't use anything bigger than a short sword. Their armor is harder to find as loot but, when you make custom armor, it requires a lot fewer resources. Elves have less strength but their innate magic lets the strike a little faster and more accurately. In different situations, the dwarves or the elves might be better off which means you'll (hopefully) play them differently.

 

[Pifanjr]

If your game is set up in such a way that a certain race is really the only viable choice for a certain class, you might as well do what AD&D did and combine the two, such that your race also determines your class.

However, later D&D editions did away with this and I think they mostly get away with it by giving so many character options that you can usually make some sort of valid build with most combinations of race and class. Also because the racial traits are fairly minor in the grand scheme of things.

But I can imagine it's pretty hard to come up with interesting racial abilities that don't unbalance the game one way or another.

 

[Zoid]

I think racial stat bonuses are inextricable from the fantasy in most cases. We're so used to how the common fantasy races are portrayed that we automatically assume an orc is going to be physically stronger and tougher than a wood elf, but the elf will be more agile and have better perception.

If the traditional fantasy race bonuses start wearing thin, there are some games that subvert the usual tropes. Divinity, for instance, portrays elves as cannibals that honestly freak me out a little bit.

However a game wants to define its races, I think it's important that racial stat bonuses don't preclude players from trying any build with any race. If I want to make a warrior tank wood elf, I'm fine with not having quite the same max strength as my orc buddies, as long as I can still enjoy the game just as much and still be a viable member of the team.

Handicaps are one of the most interesting aspects of roleplaying for me, and it's important that games handle them in an interesting way instead of an irritating one. If players only ever use certain races for certain classes because min-maxing is the only viable way to play the game, then that's a game design issue.

I think there's a lot of room for games to get more creative with portraying racial differences in fiction rather than just in gameplay. Some games already do a good job of this. I think racial differences portrayed in dialogue, quest choices, and relationships are often more interesting than those portrayed in stats.

 

[Zloth]

If your game is set up in such a way that a certain race is really the only viable choice for a certain class, you might as well do what AD&D did and combine the two, such that your race also determines your class.

Eh!? I only played the original AD&D seriously and that sure didn't force race. (Though it came close. Many of the races had level limits, which meant you would only really be able to play them until they hit the limit and started to get left behind.)

But I can imagine it's pretty hard to come up with interesting racial abilities that don't unbalance the game one way or another.

I don't think it would be too hard. Games have a huge number of buffs and de-buffs. Just pick a few of those out. It's not trivial, but I don't think it's too bad.

Of course, there will also be some players who "always play an elven mage and if the elves don't make the best mages then your game is WRONG" but I think we can safely ignore them.

If the traditional fantasy race bonuses start wearing thin, there are some games that subvert the usual tropes. Divinity, for instance, portrays elves as cannibals that honestly freak me out a little bit.

The Shadowrun games broke it, too. I did have a dwarven mage in Dragonfall! (He had a shotgun, too.)

To your point, I think we're agreeing. I don't need each race to be perfectly balanced for every single class. I just don't want the decision to be laughably simple.

 

[Mazer]

Honestly I'm more annoyed at bonuses that are so minor or generalised that they have zero impact on character build. Some limitations make things more interesting and force you to get creative if you want to, well, get creative.

For example, I had a great time building a halfling paladin in Neverwinter Nights because even though it suffered from lower starting strength, the shorty saving throws combined with the paladin save bonuses made for a surprisingly tanky little war-nugget. Whereas in Skyrim you can make a mage with more mana if you pick a high-elf, but as you get into higher levels and find gear that lowers mana that difference becomes negligible and you've got a flavourless character on your hands that might have been more fun as, say, an orc necromancer who crushes his enemies with a warhammer to raise their corpses.

 

[Zoid]

( . . . ) Some limitations make things more interesting and force you to get creative if you want to, well, get creative.

For example, I had a great time building a halfling paladin in Neverwinter Nights because even though it suffered from lower starting strength, the shorty saving throws combined with the paladin save bonuses made for a surprisingly tanky little war-nugget. ( . . . )

"war-nugget"

I agree - I think that race or class-based limitations make everything more interesting as long as the game provides you the option to work around them, because that can lead to much more creative emergent gameplay moments. Your example of the halfling paladin is a good one. You were short (literally) on the main stat that dictates tankability, but you were able to use advantages in other areas to make up for it creatively, and I'm sure that made your character that much more interesting to play.

 

[Pifanjr]

Eh!? I only played the original AD&D seriously and that sure didn't force race. (Though it came close. Many of the races had level limits, which meant you would only really be able to play them until they hit the limit and started to get left behind.)

Sorry, apparently this was only a thing in the Basic Set, where Dwarf, Elf and Halfling were separate classes.

I don't think it would be too hard. Games have a huge number of buffs and de-buffs. Just pick a few of those out. It's not trivial, but I don't think it's too bad.

As Mazer already pointed out though, you also don't want your buffs to feel like they don't matter at all. So you need buffs that aren't too restrictive, aren't too strong, aren't too weak and don't become obsolete. Depending on how complex your game is, this is really not an easy thing to do.

Not to say that some designers don't just half-ass it.

Of course, there will also be some players who "always play an elven mage and if the elves don't make the best mages then your game is WRONG" but I think we can safely ignore them.

I mean, even here there's a balance between managing player expectations and subverting them. Lore is really just the dressing for the game mechanics and numbers. Making the optimal choice for a magic user a dwarf instead of an elf for just to go against stereotypes is just confusing and annoying.

 

[Mazer]

You were short (literally) on the main stat that dictates tankability, but you were able to use advantages in other areas to make up for it creatively, and I'm sure that made your character that much more interesting to play.

Exactly, a build doesn't have to be optimal to be enjoyable. And it can make for great RP opportunities, unusual race/class combos can suggest their own backstory.

It's part of why I like NWN so much, and a massive factor in the replayability of classic roguelikes. I've mentioned ZangbandTK on here before for it's breadth of race and class options, and I know I personally never make the obvious choices there because they're boring. My longest lasting character in that game was a skeleton knight, low strength and average armor but resistance to piercing/slashing and no need to worry about hunger which is a big burden on warrior classes in Angband, and I got to create a PC modelled loosely on the Skull Knight from Berserk who is, objectively, a total mega ninja-boss.