Question about gaming emulators for PC

[GooglePlex24]

Sorry for my ignorance but I am a 51-yo and just started pc gaming in the last couple years mostly because I was curious about VR. Playing VR games then got me curious about AAA 2D games on the PC, so I have been playing some AAA games on my pc recently, which I purchase through Steam as I have with my VR games. Now, I would like my son to be able to play a Pokemon Nintendo Switch game on my pc even though we do not own a Nintendo Switch. I understand this MAY be possible with an emulator like Yuzu.

There are plenty of Youtube videos and websites on how to install and set up such emulators, which is fine, but I have been having a hard time finding proper instructions for how to access games to play within those emulators. I think this is partly because I don’t understand the intended purpose of a gaming emulator. Is it intended for you to buy and play games on your pc without the original console like the Nintendo Switch or is it intended for those who already own the original console and then export the game from the console to the pc so that you can switch back and forth between the console and the pc to play the games you bought within the console?

If it is the latter, I don’t really see the value in having a gaming emulator. Why would you not just play the game on the original game console, which can already be hooked up to a nice TV screen or probably even a computer display. When I think of emulators, I think of Windows emulators on the Mac which allow Mac users to purchase and run Windows OS on their Macs without owning a Windows PC. This makes perfect sense to me. If I had to buy a Windows PC in order to purchase Windows to run it on my Mac's Windows emulator, why wouldn't I just use my Windows PC instead? Do you see why I am confused?

However, if it is possible to purchase games and play it on your pc within the emulator without owning the original console, where the heck do you purchase those games? If and when I have found some convoluted instructions on the web for this, I have always ended up in a shady website that is full of malware, computer viruses, and/or pop-up ads. These sites seem very scammy and full of garbage that have nothing to do with games. There was one time where it seemed like I was able to successfully download a Switch game, but the message said I needed to purchase the original game to unlock it. Ok, fine. I am happy to purchase the original game but where do I do that?

Anyway, can anybody clarify for me what the intended purpose of a gaming emulator is and where and how you can purchase games without owning the original game consoles, if indeed that is even possible? I would appreciate anyone who can help me answer these questions.

 

[Colif]

i deleted duplicate, your post disappeared as you a new user and edited it. its an anti spam defence. We normally try to approve threads that go into that category but well, no one here right now

 

[GooglePlex24]

i deleted duplicate, your post disappeared as you a new user and edited it. its an anti spam defence. We normally try to approve threads that go into that category but well, no one here right now

Thank you! I accidentally posted the same question twice so I had to edit both of them in case they were both published. Glad to know the duplicate got deleted.

 

[Sarafan]

The main problem with emulators is their legality. I'm not sure whether you can say that they're 100% legal. The most important thing before using an emulator is that you should buy an original copy of the game regardless of form in which the copy is provided. In my opinion morally it gives you the right to use ROM for emulator. Probably you should also own the console to be 100% fine, because only in this case the publisher and the producer of hardware doesn't lose any profit. It's probably still against EULA, but I don't think that's a problem from moral point of view in this case.

I find emulators for modern consoles to be rather a curiosity, unless someone is planning to use them without owning the original games and consoles (which I don't recommend, because it's both morally and legally inappropriate and simply equals piracy). Emulators are more useful when it comes to older hardware, which is hard to connect to modern monitors and TVs. Besides that older hardware is not produced anymore, so sooner or later all old consoles will stop working. It'll be impossible to get them even on auction portals. They'll have a status similar to abandonware on PC and while abandonware isn't 100% legal, it's morally fine to use it if the downloaded software can't be bought anywhere, because in this case no one looses any profit.

So basically it's a big NO for using emulators without owning the original games and probably a no for using ROMs without owning the original consoles, unless they can't be bought anywhere that is. This limits the potential of emulators (if you want to be morally fine), but this is how the world works...

 

[GooglePlex24]

The main problem with emulators is their legality. I'm not sure whether you can say that they're 100% legal. The most important thing before using an emulator is that you should buy an original copy of the game regardless of form in which the copy is provided. In my opinion morally it gives you the right to use ROM for emulator. Probably you should also own the console to be 100% fine, because only in this case the publisher and the producer of hardware doesn't lose any profit. It's probably still against EULA, but I don't think that's a problem from moral point of view in this case.

I find emulators for modern consoles to be rather a curiosity, unless someone is planning to use them without owning the original games and consoles (which I don't recommend, because it's both morally and legally inappropriate and simply equals piracy). Emulators are more useful when it comes to older hardware, which is hard to connect to modern monitors and TVs. Besides that older hardware is not produced anymore, so sooner or later all old consoles will stop working. It'll be impossible to get them even on auction portals. They'll have a status similar to abandonware on PC and while abandonware isn't 100% legal, it's morally fine to use it if the downloaded software can't be bought anywhere, because in this case no one looses any profit.

So basically it's a big NO for using emulators without owning the original games and probably a no for using ROMs without owning the original consoles, unless they can't be bought anywhere that is. This limits the potential of emulators (if you want to be morally fine), but this is how the world works...

Thank you, Safaran! That confirms my suspicion. I don't want to use an emulator if it was meant for console owners only, although in that case, I don't really see the point of using it. However, you made an excellent point about how playing on the PC can enhance the experience when the game is from an older console that is not compatible with high resolution screens, etc. That does make sense, but I guess the Nintendo Switch would not fall in that category for now, so I think I will no longer pursue the emulator route.

I have to say, though, that I don't like companies that require purchase of software to be contingent on the purchase of their hardware. It's like they don't want to provide options to make a profit at differnt levels and in different ways. This smacks of a kind of rigidity that is unbecoming of a tech world that should offer legal and legitimate ways to use technologies flexibly. Although I am not a big fan of Microsoft, I have to give them credit for recognizing that from the start.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

What is morally ok and what is legally ok are two different discussions. Like Sarafan pointed out, if you own the game, his morals are that it's ok to download a ROM for a game you already own. There are people who are against that, too, which just means they have different morals. Some people's morals say it's ok to download ROMs for games that aren't still being sold. So morals on this can be very subjective, and there are people who get very uptight about this.

But what is legally ok is objective, and the law doesn't care about what your specific morals might be. Not only that, but the law is different from nation to nation. I live in the US, so that's what I'll talk about, and I'm not a lawyer.

But in the US, we have what we call the Fair Use Act, which says that you're allowed to have a backup of anything in case the original media/files you bought get destroyed. So here, the only way it's legally safe to play a copyrighted game in an emulator is if you own the game, and you dump your copy of the game into a ROM. You're allowed to do that for yourself. You can't share it with anyone else, but you can have it for your own use. It's not legal to download a ROM, even if you own the game. You have to dump your own.

It's also not legal to download games from companies that still exist that aren't being sold anymore. Take Nintendo's game, Wind Waker. It came out in 2002. 10 years later in 2012, it was a 2 generation old game that wasn't actively being sold. People might have thought it was a thing of the past, so ok to emulate, because Nintendo wasn't losing anything. But one year later, they came out with Wind Waker HD. A company has the right to hold onto their IP and decide to rerelease them on modern hardware any time they want.

Having said all of that, is it ok to go by your morals instead of the law, and assume you're not going to get caught? It's a risk, but maybe a very small risk. But on the other hand, I still remember in 2003 when the RIAA began to sue normal people for downloading MP3s. But I'm not against emulators. The emulators, themselves, were reverse engineered, and they're not illegal in and of themselves. It's the games that cause the problems. But I did take the time to dump my own copy of Breath of the Wild so I could legally emulate it running 4K@60fps. It was awesome.

 

[GooglePlex24]

Thank you, Brian. I agree that morals are variable across individuals (and across cultures) and that it is important to understand the law. Would it be illegal for a company to willingly sell their software for those who want to use them in emulators? No, right? I think that's more my point. If Nintendo has a platform for emulator users to buy their games legally, I think it would be a much more technologically enlightened decision and is a very different case from trying to get their games for free. Nintendo's decision amounts to requiring us to buy a particular DVD player in order to buy DVDs. That seems almost immoral to me, although I understand that the law is often on the side of large companies' rights to make money over an individual's right to enhance their quality of life, especially in the United States given the legalized and institutionalized corruption that is called lobbying.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Thank you, Brian. I agree that morals are variable across individuals (and across cultures) and that it is important to understand the law. Would it be illegal for a company to willingly sell their software for those who want to use them in emulators? No, right? I think that's more my point. If Nintendo has a platform for emulator users to buy their games legally, I think it would be a much more technologically enlightened decision and is a very different case from trying to get their games for free. Nintendo's decision amounts to requiring us to buy a particular DVD player in order to buy DVDs. That seems almost immoral to me, although I understand that the law is often on the side of large companies' rights to make money over an individual's right to enhance their quality of life, especially in the United States given the legalized and institutionalized corruption that is called lobbying.

Hey, man. I wish Nintendo would make their games cross-platform, too. But one thing you have to remember about Nintendo is that they're in the hardware business just as much as software. On one hand, it seems like they'd sell more games if they would sell across other platforms. But from their perspective, their first and second party software is the only thing that sells their hardware. They never put out consoles that can compete from a power or technical standpoint. So the biggest thing that drives their hardware sales is because that's the only way you can play their games. I'd love to be able to play Breath of the Wild 2 on PC when it comes out. But that's going to be a huge reason for people to buy a Switch, or whatever next gen they come out with.

Even old games, they still want the ability to control where you can play them, so you have to play on their hardware.

 

[DXCHASE]

If a company wants to lock their game into 1 system, it deserves to get emulated/modded/torrented on PC. Most games on consoles get designed from PC's its only fair they can be played on that platform.

 

[Pifanjr]

Anyway, can anybody clarify for me what the intended purpose of a gaming emulator is and where and how you can purchase games without owning the original game consoles, if indeed that is even possible? I would appreciate anyone who can help me answer these questions.

Emulators are mainly made as a way to preserve and play games outside of the control of the company that made them, so that if that company decides to stop selling that game it won't just disappear completely. The games themselves are copied to a computer by using a console with a custom piece of software running on it.

While emulators are all legal in the US, making a personal copy of a game is a bit of a legal grey area, as there has been no definitive ruling in the US that says that making a backup of a game for personal use is legal or illegal and there are arguments for and against either, which might also depend on the technologies used for each game/cartridge/console.

Note that downloading ROMs is illegal, as it counts as spreading copyrighted material without permission, even if you own the game yourself. If you want to buy a game and play it on an emulator without downloading a ROM, you will have to find someone with the hardware and software necessary to make a backup of the game to load onto your computer.

Also note that you won't be able to use any of the (official) online components of any games you play on an emulator.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

If a company wants to lock their game into 1 system, it deserves to get emulated/modded/torrented on PC. Most games on consoles get designed from PC's its only fair they can be played on that platform.

And now we get into the realm of morality vs legality.

While emulators are all legal in the US, making a personal copy of a game is a bit of a legal grey area, as there has been no definitive ruling in the US that says that making a backup of a game for personal use is legal or illegal and there are arguments for and against either, which might also depend on the technologies used for each game/cartridge/console.

You're right that it's a gray area. But up until recently, Nintendo had a legal page on their website about copyright infringement, and even the very uptight Nintendo admitted that it's legal to dump your own copy of a game. But I went to my bookmark for that page and noticed they've taken it down sometime in the last year. I think even though the Fair Use Act is a big gray area, coming after people for backing up their own games wouldn't stick. They could definitely nab you for downloading them, though.

But you mentioned buying games and finding someone with hardware to dump them for you. It's a lot harder to dump older games, especially the old cartridge-based games. But thankfully, it's getting a lot easier with more modern consoles. I dumped my own copy of the Wii U version of Breath of the Wild just by using my Wii U and an SD card. Xbox 360 and up are probably the easiest to dump, since they're built on Windows. But the emulation really isn't there for that.