PCG Article Nearly 500,000 people are playing Hogwarts Legacy on Steam before it's truly out

[WoodenSaucer]

This discussion is still going strong, so I'm just going to throw this out there to see what your opinions are.

I'm all for trans people being treated with respect and having their rights honored. But surely you guys can see this is a sensitive topic on a lot of different levels, not just one level. For instance, take this situation that happened recently. In a YMCA in Ohio, a mother had a pretty heated discussion at the front desk because she was in the locker room with her young daughter, and a trans woman was in there with her full "package" hanging there for everyone to see. They basically told her in an indirect way that her concerns don't matter as much as trans rights.

What's the answer for situations like this? The only reason I'm pointing this out is because this isn't a discussion where only one side is legit, no questions asked. The reason this applies is because, from my understanding, JKR was originally just showing support for the safety of biological women. In simplicity, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. I know the stats show that trans people usually show no threats like that. But the only reason I point out the YMCA thing is that there are discussions that need to be had, with all respect. And you can't just shut every single concern down as being anti-trans.

 

[Brian Boru]

What's the answer

Good point and tough question. I assume it will evolve into segregation which works for society in general, like there have been separate facilities for men and women for ages.

That honors the specific rights, and also protects the general sensibilities.

 

[Pifanjr]

What's the answer for situations like this?

A compromise must be made whenever the rights/needs/wants of one person or group conflict with the rights/needs/wants of another.

In this specific situation, if I was the owner of the YMCA, I'd just install a couple of private changing rooms. If someone doesn't want to risk (their child) seeing other people naked they can just use one of those.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

A compromise must be made whenever the rights/needs/wants of one person or group conflict with the rights/needs/wants of another.

In this specific situation, if I was the owner of the YMCA, I'd just install a couple of private changing rooms. If someone doesn't want to risk (their child) seeing other people naked they can just use one of those.

That is an option that is available at most of them. But personally, I don't think the onus should be on the mother to risk her young daughter seeing someone naked of the opposite sex (which is different than gender). At the very least, if a trans woman wants to use the women's changing room, don't you think they should be discreet about having their "package" out in the open?

 

[ipman]

Good point and tough question. I assume it will evolve into segregation which works for society in general, like there have been separate facilities for men and women for ages.

That honors the specific rights, and also protects the general sensibilities.

I agree and if that means facilities seperated into three gender toilets, that's a sensible solution.

The problem with this issue, it all as you all well know it goes much deeper, and we aren't going to discuss those.
That's for other platforms. Thankfully I'm an escapist

The fact that J.K. Rowling has become a sort of focal point is probably strange for her. Many groups make their opinions made in much more offensive ways.

Culturally; I can think of one trans-sexual character in WD2. And there have been a number of films with trans-sexual characters, like The Crying Game and All About my Mother(brilliant).

But again most people rely on stereotypes, cliches and misinformation.

A good example is 'gamers' and 'PC interested'

If you say either of those (depending on whether they know what they are talking about), you will see several possible expressions pass across their faces.

But films don't help much there, mostly reinforcing the stereotypes.

 

[Pifanjr]

That is an option that is available at most of them. But personally, I don't think the onus should be on the mother to risk her young daughter seeing someone naked of the opposite sex (which is different than gender). At the very least, if a trans woman wants to use the women's changing room, don't you think they should be discreet about having their "package" out in the open?

Personally I don't see the problem with children seeing naked bodies of either sex in a non-sexual context.

 

[Zloth]

What's the answer for situations like this?

It's a clash of two cultures. The rule of thumb is for the person that is least upset by the situation to back off. If they are roughly equal, the prevailing culture wins out.

Which culture is the prevailing one gets tricky. There are lots of times where the culture is different depending on whether you look at the locality, the whole nation, or somewhere between. This is happening on YMCA property, too. I'm not familiar enough with the YMCA to know whether they let just anybody in or if you have to join it. If it's the latter, the YMCA will normally get to decide.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Personally I don't see the problem with children seeing naked bodies of either sex in a non-sexual context.

We have very different viewpoints on that.

 

[Brian Boru]

Going along nicely here folks. Let's keep the personal views to ourselves please, and keep the discussion general.

 

[ipman]

Personally I don't see the problem with children seeing naked bodies of either sex in a non-sexual context.

I think it depends on numerous factors, some personal and others dependant on the; family, social circle, country/culture(Japan being much more liberal about such issues, than M. Eastern countries for example), religion, etc, a person grew up in.

The example given was just another attempt to put a negative spin on the recognition and respect that those who feel that their particular psychology and biology don't match, feel they also have a right to.

The concepts of male and female are constructs.

But it's amazing that one person's opinion is causing so much consternation and has brought these divisive arguments to a head and not only in relation the HP the books or game spin offs.

The New Your Times printed this defense of J. K. Rowling(16/2/23).

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/opinion/jk-rowling-transphobia.html?searchResultPosition=2

 

[Pifanjr]

The New Your Times printed this defense of J. K. Rowling(16/2/23).

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/opinion/jk-rowling-transphobia.html?searchResultPosition=2

Which already has a counter-article written too:

Contributors to NYT: Your Trans Coverage Is Terrible. Pamela Paul: Hold My Beer.

There is way more wrong with the columnist's defense of J.K. Rowling than its incredibly bad timing.

slate.com

 

[ipman]

Which already has a counter-article written too:

Contributors to NYT: Your Trans Coverage Is Terrible. Pamela Paul: Hold My Beer.

There is way more wrong with the columnist's defense of J.K. Rowling than its incredibly bad timing.

slate.com

It is like watching reality tv and the world is going slightly crazy. Yes I think it started when NY Times staff said something about taking a stand, and the paper published their defense.

Thing is this is like the article says, little different to the Salman Rushdie situation.

She's now doing a series of podcasts, the Witch Trials of J.K . (Next book maybe darker).

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I think it depends on numerous factors, some personal and others dependant on the; family, social circle, country/culture(Japan being much more liberal about such issues, than M. Eastern countries for example), religion, etc, a person grew up in.

The example given was just another attempt to put a negative spin on the recognition and respect that those who feel that their particular psychology and biology don't match, feel they also have a right to.

The concepts of male and female are constructs.

But it's amazing that one person's opinion is causing so much consternation and has brought these divisive arguments to a head and not only in relation the HP the books or game spin offs.

The New Your Times printed this defense of J. K. Rowling(16/2/23).

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/opinion/jk-rowling-transphobia.html?searchResultPosition=2

Like I said in the beginning, it's obvious only one side of this discussion is welcome here. And it's a shame that a lot of the people on that side only care about the feelings of their side of that discussion and won't listen to anyone else's viewpoints, even if they make sense.

Personally, I wish this thread could be shut down, as it's way too sensitive of a topic for the scope of a gaming forum. Even when I was hoping get back to the general discussion, passive aggressive posts like I quoted make it seem like that's not going to happen.

 

[Pifanjr]

Personally, I wish this thread could be shut down, as it's way too sensitive of a topic for the scope of a gaming forum.

I agree, I don't think I should've engaged with this topic on a gaming forum, it's not the place for it.

 

[ipman]

Like I said in the beginning, it's obvious only one side of this discussion is welcome here. And it's a shame that a lot of the people on that side only care about the feelings of their side of that discussion and won't listen to anyone else's viewpoints, even if they make sense.

Personally, I wish this thread could be shut down, as it's way too sensitive of a topic for the scope of a gaming forum. Even when I was hoping get back to the general discussion, passive aggressive posts like I quoted make it seem like that's not going to happen.

Hey as Always I'm just expressing the truth as I see it at that time. I was responding to one viewpoint and looking at how this is developing in terms of J.K. Rowling.

 

[McStabStab]

Well, before this thread gets locked I just want to give recognition to PC Gamer for giving a truly honest review while also expressing their support for the Trans community. I say this because today Kotaku and Gamespot released their reviews that scored the game as a mediocre title.

I know I'm not alone in that I will never look at Wired, Kotaku, Gamespot, and other game publication outlets the same way because they couldn't get past their view on the Rowling and tried to sour the reception of this game because of it. I bought this game for my wife, and I was naturally critical going into it because I've become wary of games released at launch. I purposely look for faults in this game but so far it has been incredibly immersive and a wonderful translation of the source material into an interactive world.

It was a no-brainer that if this game was going to be moderately good the Potter fandom would make it a success. You can't hold the ocean with a broom, so PC Gamer did the honest thing. Reviewed the game as it is, created editorial content that explained the controversy surrounding the game, and pointed people in the direction of Trans organizations that will do more to help than tarnishing the review of an adjacent product.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Locking the thread here as it seems to have run its course.

 

[Brian Boru]

Locking the thread here as it seems to have run its course.

Agreed.