Metaverse and gaming evolution

[Brian Boru]

Now that Metaverse has received a boost from FB's stated future course, how do you see gaming evolving within it—if and when the MV happens, of course?

I've never played a MMO game, so I'm hazy on it, but there seem to be similarities—mainly that the world persists even when the player is absent, and events can happen in your absence. What do you MMO players think?

Anyone ever spend time in Second Life, which sounds like an early effort at a MV? My GF was in it for a couple of years—nothing heavy, but she did end up making a retail shop there for our biz. I thought it was interesting, but it never pulled me in.

Could you see yourself committing to a schedule for your favorite game(s), like in offline sports—training Tues & Thurs at 7pm, game Sat at 3pm?

Would it evolve like sports, with thousands of amateur teams across the world competing in organized leagues and cups? Seems like the growing pro esports scene should fit well, like pro sports does offline.

Would it largely kill off single player? I guess not many play football on their own, apart from banging a ball against a wall—you want at least one other companion to kick it back and admire your artistry. Maybe not, no reason I can't login and setup a game v AI opponents, is there?

Or would it evolve more like say TV, which can be quite happily enjoyed on one's own?

One thing it has to mean is that games will live on servers, so that everyone is playing with the same ball on the same pitch, so to speak. You login and take control of your avatar, and then venture where you may.

I wonder what new game genres will emerge?

Fyi the similar What's the upcoming tech you think will have the biggest impact on gaming? thread recently.

ETA: new PCG article

The metaverse is bullshit

You're not losing your mind: it really does just sound like a worse version of the internet.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Zloth]

Well, first, I like the term "cyberspace" more.

It's also very badly defined. I see it as being a VR space where you can bring up the VR storefronts for various stores - maybe in your area, maybe not. Kind of like a giant VR mall. You can go shop for a coat over there, then make an order to have a burrito delivered over there, and off to the side there's some guy trying to drum up business by playing a virtual banjo, and so on.

I also see it not happening. There's millions of businesses and non-profit groups around the world, why would you ever try to make a VR space to try and house them all!? We've already got a planet doing that. If you want to find a business, look it up on Google or Bing. If they want a VR store front, fine, but I don't see why you would bother with something like that for a fast food place. Fast food place advertisements, sure, but somebody who's coming in for the 20th time and just wants a #3 with no tomato and Dr. Pepper for the drink isn't going to want to mess with it.

 

[Alm]

I think if Meta try to own it it's more likely to die an early death.

 

[Brian Boru]

I like the term "cyberspace" more

I believe that's meant to be all-inclusive, and would include the MV which is more of an add-on to 'real life' than a replacement for it.

I see it as being a VR space where you can bring up the VR storefronts for various stores - maybe in your area, maybe not

The Virtual Mall was a big thing over 20 years ago before the Dot Com crash, but it faded quickly and hasn't been replaced. It had the obvious drawback that you couldn't 'capture' visitors like a RL mall can.

That said, Second Life was something like what you say in the 00s, but it never blossomed like other social media. MV could make that more of a success, now that the tech is catching up with capable device graphics and 5G.

businesses and non-profit groups around the world, why would you ever try to make a VR space to try and house them all!?

I suppose to go with the other media which house the majority—web space, billboards, radio etc etc… It's likely unwise for a company to ignore such a space.

somebody who's coming in for the 20th time and just wants a #3 with no tomato and Dr. Pepper for the drink isn't going to want to mess with it

Right. Just like they don't mess with the place's other presences on web space, billboards, radio etc etc… You target regular customers in a different way than new or irregular customers.

If you want to find a business, look it up on Google or Bing

Again, this doesn't stop them having presences on web space, billboards, radio etc etc…

I interpret the MV as more a confluence of techs rather than any discrete 'space'. Mainly very fast internet like 5G, 6G plus device graphics capable of recreating good 3D representations of the offline world when necessary. Fleshing this out into something useful—in the same sense that other tech confluences like 'online' or 'mobile' are useful—will be cloud computing, VR, AR, AI, blockchain etc.

I think if Meta try to own it it's more likely to die an early death.

Hmm dunno, they've done ok with FB—which I also thought would face an early demise

I don't see it as a place or thing that a company can own. The only ownership which may happen is national, eg China will probably want to maintain their bubble in the MV.

Gaming

Back on topic—how will this impact gaming, as per the OP questions and speculations?

 

[Alm]

I would probably use VR for sports/exercise. But I think it would take a while to get as popular an esports scene as say LoL / CSGO. And I think singleplayer would still be very popular within VR.

The potential is definitely interesting. Imo it could go anywhere success wise.

 

[Pifanjr]

Maybe this will eventually lead to a shared video game universe where you have multiple genres happening at the same time within one game. Kind of like Star Citizen has been attempting, but even bigger. It won't replace the current gaming market, but it might be cool.

The entire concept reminds me a bit of the Sword Art Online series, which also had multiple MMO worlds/games between which you could transfer your avatar, keeping some of the progress/equipment you had made.

 

[Brian Boru]

multiple MMO worlds/games between which you could transfer your avatar, keeping some of the progress/equipment you had made

Oh I like that. Also, a single player series planned from the outset, where your progress in Game 1 would carry over to your start in Game 2, and so on.

a shared video game universe where you have multiple genres happening at the same time within one game

That too! So you could take on the enemy with an army in a RTS war, or with a hero in a RPG style, or FPS where you eliminate the enemy forces in various bases.
Pacifist? There's an app(roach) for that. Head off and discover new lands for your people. 4X maybe—develop those newly discovered lands.

 

[ZedClampet]

It will be a sad, fat, out-of-shape world if the metaverse ever takes off the way they think it will, but in a Covid reality, that's happening anyway.

Metaverse is meant to replace reality. You have a new you in a cyber world, and you can do anything from socializing, going to concerts, visiting museums, playing games, etc. "Adult" activities will probably be popular for people who find sexy avatar times interesting.

As to how it will impact games, I suppose that there will be a "Steam" of the metaverse where you can buy games (or more likely subscribe to play as many as you want). Based on the real world examples I've checked out recently, these games will be cheap, multiplayer-focused games with an emphasis on the social aspects. Picture games like you might play on Garry's Mod or Roblox. There will be some games suitable for singleplayer, but they will be the same low quality. Maybe if someone determines there's a market for them, better SP games will be added later.

By the way, there's a metaverse gaming center on the Epic Game Store that is free. I don't remember the name of it. I wouldn't bother finding and downloading it. It's miserable. Sadly, quite a few people seem to like it.

Edit: I think that Epic metagame thing is called Crayta if you are really interested.

 

[Pifanjr]

Maybe this will eventually lead to a shared video game universe where you have multiple genres happening at the same time within one game. Kind of like Star Citizen has been attempting, but even bigger.

This mod lets you seamlessly fight Crusader Kings 3 battles in Mount & Blade 2

Two great games, better together.

www.pcgamer.com

Perhaps mods will succeed where Star Citizen has failed by stitching several unrelated games together into one big game.

 

[Brian Boru]

Nice 13-min overview:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q1ARrpOk3Y


Bits I've read since this thread started incline me to think:
♣ It will happen in business before consumers buy in;
♦ Unlikely to be a big thing for general public before 2030s;
♥ Hardware is the main stumbling block.

 

[Colif]

Imagine having an avatar in this Metaverse and having to buy all new clothing just to look non default. As nothing will be free, you are the product. The meta verse is a way to create the biggest marketing group ever and sell you all this stuff again in a digital environment.

You think the competitive nature of social media was bad but when you can actually see other people and don't be fooled, people will pay money to look great, you will see it get far worse.

Its no wonder all the luxury brands want in on it, sell people digital copies of real stuff is way cheaper than actually making anything (I am looking at you, NFT).

I don't want this, it doesn't do anything the internet doesn't do now. I don't want to go into VR to do any of this. The virtual parties aren't new, games already do that. Its being advertised to people who haven't seen good graphics before.

 

[Brian Boru]

I don't want this, it doesn't do anything the internet doesn't do now

Then again, the internet doesn't do anything phone + TV + mail didn't do then

In a previous life, I witnessed the earliest appearances of the motor car. There were a lot of objections:
"Ride on a box which has explosions going off every second? Do I look like a total idiot?"
"What does it do that my horse can't do, apart from frighten the life out of everyone with those infernal backfires?"
"Can it jump a wall or fence or creek? How can it possibly catch on?"

Imagine having … to buy all new clothing … people will pay money to look great

Isn't it great that real life avoids all that? Imagine if there was a predatory industry—let's call it fashion—which forced people to buy real clothes to look great. Real clothes would of course be much more expensive than digitals, and have a big impact on the environment too—the real environment, that is.

Phew, we dodged a bullet there

sell people digital copies of real stuff is way cheaper than actually making anything

I take it you've never actually tried that? If you had, you'd very likely have quite a different view. Depends on the product, but raw materials and distribution are often a small part of the total cost.

In summary, the probable worst uses of the MV are hardly worse than the past and present worst uses of so many real world platforms and products. I'd prefer to be fired on in multiplayer than real life any day

 

[Colif]

Then again, the internet doesn't do anything phone + TV + mail didn't do then

its more interactive than TV and more immediate than mail. You would be waiting for a week for me to reply (Imagine a forum before the internet, a bunch of Romans yelling at each other)

Isn't it great that real life avoids all that? Imagine if there was a predatory industry—let's call it fashion—which forced people to buy real clothes to look great. Real clothes would of course be much more expensive than digitals, and have a big impact on the environment too—the real environment, that is.

I pity those that care what they look like. I have basically worn same clothes all my life (though not literally as they might be wearing thin now). At least you can touch the clothes you own now.

I take it you've never actually tried that? If you had, you'd very likely have quite a different view. Depends on the product, but raw materials and distribution are often a small part of the total cost.

okay, might not be cheaper but its way more profitable. Infinite amounts of nothing to sell anyone silly enough to buy it.

 

[ZedClampet]

I've never played a MMO game, so I'm hazy on it, but there seem to be similarities—mainly that the world persists even when the player is absent, and events can happen in your absence. What do you MMO players think?

IMO, MMO's are already metaverses, only without hyper-advertising and non-stop monetization. The metaverse push is basically an attempt to get the average person to play an MMO so you can advertise to them and sell them things. If Facebook can convert all their users to an MMO/metaverse, it will make them ALL the money.

I don't think it's going to work. Every example of a metaverse that I've seen looks like an extra crappy MMO. Plus, Facebook users are old dolts who like spreading political nonsense or posting pictures of their pets. They couldn't care less about playing an MMO.

I wonder what new game genres will emerge?

None. There's nothing about a metaverse setting that inspires new genres. In fact, it's more restrictive.

 

[Zloth]

I don't think what Kevin S. said on that video is right. If Teams, Facebook, Zoom, and whatever else add VR and/or AR features, we don't suddenly have a "metaverse." You just have a bunch of programs that support immersive graphics. As I understand it, there needs to be a connection between all these to be a metaverse.

Say all the MMO companies got together and worked out a common description for game characters. They set up a central server and, every time a person goes to a new MMO, they can pick characters they made in previous MMOs to use as models. Maybe they'll tweak them some to fit the game better, but they'll have a head start so they'll be able to get in the game quicker. Come to think of it, it wouldn't need to be limited to MMOs - single player games could certainly use the same database. NOW it's becoming more of a metaverse thing.

Still, the term has A) become somewhat popular, at least among upper management types and B) is extremely vague. There's no hope at all that the term will keep what little meaning it has, if it even has any anymore. It might just turn into another word for VR/AR.

 

[Brian Boru]

There's nothing about a metaverse setting that inspires new genres

What? You don't see Hide n Seek bursting thru? Or throwing paper airplanes at the teacher?

There's no hope at all that the term will keep what little meaning it has

Agreed, no one knows how this will develop—it's like where the Web was in early 90s, or FTP in 80s.

we don't suddenly have a "metaverse." You just have a bunch of programs that support immersive graphics

I think he was talking about the psychological advantage of such immersion—how Zoom etc is so draining for most people, compared to the less stressful experience of virtual walkabout.

If MV is to succeed to same extent as FB and other big social apps, my guess is it'll be because of the social 'comfort' it'll provide, making SocMed a more pleasant experience. I think that's been the appeal of Second Life for the past 18 years, rather than any technical excellence.

 

[Zloth]

If MV is to succeed to same extent as FB and other big social apps, my guess is it'll be because of the social 'comfort' it'll provide, making SocMed a more pleasant experience. I think that's been the appeal of Second Life for the past 18 years, rather than any technical excellence.

Well, he mentioned how it's so much better to meet in person because you can pick up on all the body language. However, that tech isn't anywhere close to showing up yet. Games/movies trying to get CGI right have to cover actors' faces/bodies with reference points to get it to work. (Oooo! I wonder if it will work for people with freckles first?)

 

[Colif]

lets hear what Meta say it is for. Advertising.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Ready Player One is becoming a reality.

 

[Zloth]

I stopped at "anonymous source leaked."

That said, it's certainly going to be about advertising. Same as every sport is about advertising. You're going to need to pay some way, whether it's up-front costs, subscription, advertising, providing personal data, or some combination. Meta isn't a non-profit that's going to do this via some shareware model!

 

[mainer]

 

[Zloth]

My first internet service provider was Sky.Net. That email address rocked.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

My first internet service provider was Sky.Net. That email address rocked.

My first was probably Prodigy, then AOL. Whichever I had free hours for. I hit the jackpot when I found Netzero, though. Do you remember that? It had an ad bar at the top of the screen, and the internet service was free. I even had a local number to access it.

Technically, my first online service was AOL's predecessor, called Quantum Link. It was a service for the C64.

 

[Brian Boru]

Netzero … Do you remember that?

Were you one of those vagabonds going willy-nilly around the internet? For shame!

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Were you one of those vagabonds going willy-nilly around the internet? For shame!

I was living on the edge.