Game Abilities vs Functionality

[Frindis]

In my experience, the more abilities your character in a game have, the less they are actually used or effective. Let me give you an example:

When I played Gabriel Knight: The Beast Within, there were these cassette tapes you could use for recording conversations and checking for hints later. All dialogue and text were automatically stored on these tapes whenever you talked to someone, except for one instance. In this particular case, you had to manually use a cassette to play a specific dialogue to progress in the quest.

This made it incredibly difficult to understand that you had to use it that one time and as I see it that ability did not need to be in the game as it didn't have much of a function.

So my question to you all is: Have you ever experienced games that provide a lot of abilities for your character, only to find that they have limited functionality because the abilities do not work as intended, you only use it a couple of times, or are mostly there for show?

 

[Pifanjr]

Maybe not exactly what you had in mind, but the equipment in Shadow of War comes to mind. The game gives you a ton of different items with special properties that could be useful in different circumstances, but switching between pieces of equipment is so bothersome that I mostly used whichever one had the highest number (weapon damage or armour).

It made these special properties just mostly useless, especially the set bonuses for legendary equipment. I'm not going to cut my sword damage in half just so I can unlock a set bonus that is only useful in very specific situations.

And I find that this isn't an uncommon issue. There are quite a few games that give you equipment that's only useful in specific situations but don't give you a way to quickly switch, so you just ignore those pieces of equipment.

I also think it's part of a wider problem in video games where the game gives you different ways to prepare your character for a particular encounter, but actually doing that preparation is so boring that you end up just brute-forcing the encounter instead. Besides switching out equipment, it's also applying buffs or crafting and/or using consumables that's often not worth the effort.

Sure, I can grind resources to craft a potion that gives me 20% extra damage, or I can lower the difficulty which means enemies have 20% less health. Most games do not make crafting consumables interesting, it's just a waste of time before I can get to the combat.

 

[JCgames]

I never played that game, I do have some gb knight games, I tried the first and it did not click (no pun intended) with me. I say this as a huge fan of pount and clicks too.

But, being a vet point and click fan I will say if you get stuck it's time to try everything. Sometimes these games are not logical. Some even have a nice hints system to give you a nudge verse just reading the spoiler. But in typical point and click strat combine and try everything, something should work. Unless of course you forgot to trigger the obvious because you didn't "look" at the object before using the obvious key. That one always trips me up and bugs me to no end!

As to your question, it's really hard to say. There are often things you only use limited times, and if you have tons of options it makes sense that some are going to be occasional.

The only example I can think of off the top of my head is from dungeons of naheulbeuk, the game has a crap ton of consumable buffs but in reality it's better to just have a heal potion slotted 98% of the time. Lots of folks asked for tweaks to the buffs, but nothing was ever done.

They did however listen and make changes for the back to the futon dlc which was great. It didn't really hurt the game over all as its still one of my all time favs, but, i would have loved to see a balance pass, or an xlm that could be edited.

To anyone playing just know all that crap you pick up out side of an unfreeze and stand up potions are just sell items to increase your bank to but something helpful. Unless of course you just want to make the game more challenging otherwise its heal potions and bandages for the win!

 

[BeardyHat]

The game that sticks out in my mind is Vanilla/Classic World of Warcraft.

The first character I ever capped out was Shaman and it was just an absolute mess of abilities, many of which were completely useless. For reference, WoW has hot bars with 12 slots for abilities. You can expand them a bit with extra slots for a total of 48 slots. By the time I hit 60, I had a majority, if not about 36 completely full, most of which were rarely useful.

One of the innovations of WoW down the road was compressing all that into something much more manageable.

Then you have any game with numerous buttons combos:

Dpad Left + A = x

Dpad Left + B = y

Dpad Right + A = z

And on and on. I'm never going to remember all these combos and each little thing that they do. Instead, I'll find one or two that work and stick to them forever, because there's just an information overload. Even if something I'm not using is better, I'm never going to remember how to even access it, because my brain is already full of garbage.

 

[Frindis]

Most games do not make crafting consumables interesting, it's just a waste of time before I can get to the combat.

I watched a Kingdom Comes Deliverance 2 video and for that game I am optimistic about the brewing of potions. Not only does it visually look cool having to put ingredients together, but you get different bases depending on the order you put the ingredients together. You can also get info about where to find the different ingredients and you have to dry them for more power. I guess you can always buy them, but at least it looks like there will be good use for brewing potions and using them before combat.

 

[ZedClampet]

There's one thing I can guarantee. If you have this weird ability that you never use, but then you come across a boss and think, "Hey, this will be perfect!" then the boss will be immune to that ability.

I really think you can make this same OP argument about just about everything in games. @Pifanjr talks about gear, and in Darktide there are a lot of different guns. But why do half of these guns exist? I started to make a ten second video the other day on the difference between a couple of guns. The last gun I unlocked on my heretic was absolutely terrible. You had to shoot even the base mobs over and over. And that wasn't even the worst of his guns. One of them had to charge up. So there was a delay before shooting. You had to pull the trigger and continue to track the enemy for another second before the gun would shoot. But even worse was that it could easily overheat, explode and kill you. You would think a gun like this would have OP damage, but it didn't.

I think developers are under a lot of pressure to put tons of things into games, tons of guns, tons of armor, tons of abilities, etc. And it seems rare when you find a game where a lot of these are not just completely useless. But maybe you are still impressed that there are so many of them?

 

[Frindis]

But, being a vet point and click fan I will say if you get stuck it's time to try everything. Sometimes these games are not logical.

Made me think of this gem:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeKNzWU8lgk

 

[ZedClampet]

Most games do not make crafting consumables interesting, it's just a waste of time before I can get to the combat.

You'd love the game I'm playing right now. I'm waiting for 50 cucumbers to grow so I can give them to an alien space robot, and there won't be any combat to follow. He'll just come back later and want something else. He tosses me a few coins.

 

[Frindis]

There's one thing I can guarantee. If you have this weird ability that you never use, but then you come across a boss and think, "Hey, this will be perfect!" then the boss will be immune to that ability.

lol, ain't that the truth!

I think developers are under a lot of pressure to put tons of things into games, tons of guns, tons of armor, tons of abilities, etc. And it seems rare when you find a game where a lot of these are not just completely useless. But maybe you are still impressed that there are so many of them?

I'm thinking about Noita here. There is an incredible number of items you can use. While not every item is fantastic, I seem to find more and more interesting ways to use a lot of them. So perhaps there is also a learning curve in the midst of this, and you need to go beyond a particular threshold to experience the full use of some items.

 

[Frindis]

The game that sticks out in my mind is Vanilla/Classic World of Warcraft.

The first character I ever capped out was Shaman and it was just an absolute mess of abilities, many of which were completely useless.

I played a warlock and mage in WOLTK expansion but I can't remember any really bad abilities. I mean getting spammed for requests for making food/water could be annoying, but it was a brilliant ability for a party/raid. Maybe the Summon Doomguard spell for Warlock? I can't remember ever finding good use for that.

@JCgames Do you have a favorite Point and Click game? Right now I am leaning towards Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis because I liked the story and the voice acting and puzzles were top-notch. The music was also quite good, with a memorable intro sequence:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qix4CqSdDpk

 

[JCgames]

@JCgames Do you have a favorite Point and Click game? Right now I am leaning towards Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis because I liked the story and the voice acting and puzzles were top-notch. The music was also quite good, with a memorable intro sequence:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qix4CqSdDpk

Let me get back to you, I bought about 8 over the last year and I'm gonna play one, perhaps this weekend. I almost played it like 4 times in the last 2 weeks so it should happen. it's called Emerald city I think, it's a take on the wizard of Oz and it's a dialog game verse puzzles. I'll post the list later.

 

[Pifanjr]

I watched a Kingdom Comes Deliverance 2 video and for that game I am optimistic about the brewing of potions. Not only does it visually look cool having to put ingredients together, but you get different bases depending on the order you put the ingredients together. You can also get info about where to find the different ingredients and you have to dry them for more power. I guess you can always buy them, but at least it looks like there will be good use for brewing potions and using them before combat.

I took a look at a video that shows alchemy. It still looks pretty tedious, but it's certainly immersive.

However, the thing about open world RPGs is that being immersed is important too. For a lot of players combat isn't the main draw of the game, it's living in the world. They almost always have a lot of mechanics, but you can pick and choose which ones you want to interact with.

Also, the potions in Kingdom Come: Deliverance are pretty strong, it's so much worse if potion crafting is a chore and the result is only a minimal buff.

You'd love the game I'm playing right now. I'm waiting for 50 cucumbers to grow so I can give them to an alien space robot, and there won't be any combat to follow. He'll just come back later and want something else. He tosses me a few coins.

Is growing cucumbers a core part of the gameplay loop? There's nothing inherently wrong with crafting or collecting resources, but if it's tacked onto a game with an entirely different main gameplay loop it often just messes with the flow of the game.

I'm thinking about Noita here. There is an incredible number of items you can use. While not every item is fantastic, I seem to find more and more interesting ways to use a lot of them. So perhaps there is also a learning curve in the midst of this, and you need to go beyond a particular threshold to experience the full use of some items.

There are games where mechanics can be entirely ignored on lower difficulties/early in the game but become crucial on harder difficulties/later in the game and some players do love interacting with and mastering these mechanics to overcome the most difficult challenges.

An example that comes to mind is Pokémon, which has a ton of mechanics that casual players might not even know about, but which are crucial for competitive PvP tournaments and self-imposed challenges. I don't think most casual players pay much attention to the ability and nature of their Pokémon, but these are absolutely crucial for high level play. Getting a Pokémon with the right ability, nature and base stats is a matter of lots of luck and grinding though, but that's worth it (or even fun) for some people.

 

[ZedClampet]

Is growing cucumbers a core part of the gameplay loop? There's nothing inherently wrong with crafting or collecting resources, but if it's tacked onto a game with an entirely different main gameplay loop it often just messes with the flow of the game.

You sell cucumbers in your store. It's a shop/farming/crafting game, and it's all relevant, but the space robot itself seems a little out there. Everything else is very normal, but you have this alien robot who keeps arriving and asking for things. There's not really any lore or anything explaining why this is the case. Other than him, you are just a guy trying to run a "last stop" shop in the dessert.

 

[isleepinabed]

In the first (and/or second) Way of the Samurai games, there was a button just for dropping down on your kness and apologizing. Was it useless? Most of the time. The game is very "elastic" so you could always get by someway else.

What seemed otherwordly is that the developers were okay with "wasting" one button on the controller just on this one action you'd rarely use and that only worked on a specific setting. Amazing!

 

[January's Ghost]

When I played Gabriel Knight: The Beast Within, there were these cassette tapes you could use for recording conversations and checking for hints later. All dialogue and text were automatically stored on these tapes whenever you talked to someone, except for one instance. In this particular case, you had to manually use a cassette to play a specific dialogue to progress in the quest.

"Thomas? Thomas? Please show our wolves to Mr. Knight."

 

[January's Ghost]

So my question to you all is: Have you ever experienced games that provide a lot of abilities for your character, only to find that they have limited functionality because the abilities do not work as intended, you only use it a couple of times, or are mostly there for show?

All these souls-likes have this ability called "parry" that I never use.

 

[Zloth]

You'll see skills in RPGs sometimes that are almost never used. Two Words had a swimming skill, but there's barely any water in the game to swim in.

I remember in City of Heroes, when I got to high level I would have about a dozen powers I could use. However, I would really only use about half of them. It's not that the powers were bad, it's just that I can only keep about a half-dozen at the ready in my head. Sometimes I would remember how good a power was and start using it more, only to have some other power get used less often. Some sort of cognitive load thing, I presume.

 

[JCgames]

@JCgames Do you have a favorite Point and Click game?

I wanted to get the Indiana game but I get motion sick in fps so it's a pass. I'm not really liking how companies are dumping third person. Even when I could play the 20 years ago I preferred 3rd by a huge margin. I think the only first person game I ever really enjoyed was mech warrior. But I digress.


Here are some of the point and clicks I've grabbed on sales. This year is going to be the year of the point and click! (And adventure) all were close to the 2 dollar mark though I'm sure a few were 4 or 5. Now I just need to play them to make all that hunting worth it lol


Emerald city confidential
Black mirror 1
A golden wake
Uncertain: light at the end
Uncertain: last quiet day
Neo cab
Unavowed
Phoning home
Syberia the world before
Syberia 3
The murder of sonic the hedgehog
State of mind
Gemini rue
Broken sword 2
Whisper world special edition
Silence
Tales of aragon: season of the wolf
Asphyxia
Stories untold
Stasis
1954 alcatraz
Dream fall chapters
Art of murder 1-5
Agatha Christie ABC murders
The novelist
Her story
Unrest
Storm hill mystery: family shadows
Tales of monkey island 1-5
A new beginning final cut
The council

I also have a few Vns, fmvs, and RPGs as well, but I want to dent this monster backlog of collecting sales for the last 4 years. have you played any of these? I might make a post and get some feed back on what to play next after i play emerald city. Maybe some forum participation on what to play next will help me dent my giant backlog!


As far what I really enjoyed, I have some mini reviews in steam for all of these, but the short version is I really liked them all.
Anna's quest
Syberia 1&2
Longest journey
Dark eye:chains of Satinva & memoria
Night of the rabbit
Blackwell 1-5
Kathy Rain
Life is stange & before the storm
Shard light
Gone home
Three nights in Cairo
Suicide of Rachel Foster
Scratches
Broken sword 1
Escape from the princess
Hiway blossoms

Short demo or free
Rain of reflections ( so sad this didn't have more)
Serena (was a tech demo for the still waiting bur maybe soon Asylum) made by the guy who did scratches

I'd have to check gog to see what else I might of forgotten. flight from the amazon was free or cheap there at one time and is a total classic along with blade runner too.

 

[Frindis]

@JCgames

Unavowed - Wishlisted
Syberia 3 - Only played the second one.
Gemini rue - Decent game.
Broken Sword 2 - Only played Shadow of the Templars, might give this one a try also.
Whisper World special edition - In library, not played.
Stories untold - In library, not played.
Stasis - Only played for an hour, so probably was not my cup of tea as I remember it being a bit weird.
Dream fall chapters - Only played the Longest Journey. Fantastic game!
Her story - Not played, looks interesting.
Tales of monkey island 1-5 - I played the first chapter for free, it was a fun chapter from what I remember.

I would also like to add one I played three years ago called If On A Winter's Night, Four Travelers. It has good stories and the visuals/music are very good. A point-and-click game that is free to play. Highly recommended.

If On A Winter's Night, Four Travelers on Steam

If On A Winter's Night, Four Travelers is a narrative-driven point-and-click adventure with horror elements that explores the stories of four characters in a masked ball taking place aboard a train in the late 1920s.

store.steampowered.com