Emulating retro games

[WoodenSaucer]

If this is pushing the limits, feel free to delete this thread. But I want to clarify three things upfront. 1) This thread is just for a discussion, not for explaining how to emulate anything. 2) We've already talked about gaming with RetroPie and a Raspberry Pi, and that is emulation. 3) Legality and personal morals are not the same thing. Just because you have personal morals about something doesn't mean that it's not illegal.

With all of that in mind, I'd like to discuss our personal morals about emulating retro games (which again is different than legality). I think we can all agree that it's wrong to emulate modern games. But my question is this: how far back do you have to go in retro gaming for you to feel like it's morally ok to emulate a retro game?

 

[Colif]

Nobody has ever been prosecuted for downloading or streaming retro games using an emulator anywhere in the world – ever. This is probably because the user is doing nothing wrong by emulating a retro game to their PC. Plus, the practice is simply too widespread for any offended party to track down and prosecute.

Streaming Retro Old Games on PC using Emulators - Is it Legal? - Mr Gadget

If you are feeling nostalgic for retro games, you just need to fork to Romspedia to download an emulator and tweak your machine into the ultimate rig. The

mrgadget.com.au

Good chance most of the companies who made these games no longer exist anyway. And I doubt many would make a fuss about it. Undoubtedly some of them still exist but I don't think that they chase people playing 20+ year old games

 

[Frindis]

If there is no active license it would be a way of preserving art. If it comes alive, then it is another matter.

 

[Colif]

Zork used to be emulated as a 404 screen on a website, you could play entire game. Shame thats gone now.

Sure, easier ways to get game , but it was different

 

[Alm]

I don't think that emulating modern games that you own are all that bad. Though whether you want to go against the wishes of the publisher / devs is the main issue in my mind.

There are so many games in my backlog and I prefer newer games anyway I don't emulate much any more.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Streaming Retro Old Games on PC using Emulators - Is it Legal? - Mr Gadget

If you are feeling nostalgic for retro games, you just need to fork to Romspedia to download an emulator and tweak your machine into the ultimate rig. The

mrgadget.com.au

Good chance most of the companies who made these games no longer exist anyway. And I doubt many would make a fuss about it. Undoubtedly some of them still exist but I don't think that they chase people playing 20+ year old games

Well, that's the whole question I'm asking in this thread. How far back do you have to go for it to be ok? Like is a 7 year old game bad, but a 20 year old game is ok?

I don't think that emulating modern games that you own are all that bad. Though whether you want to go against the wishes of the publisher / devs is the main issue in my mind.

There are so many games in my backlog and I prefer newer games anyway I don't emulate much any more.

Yeah, I agree. And if you are able to dump your own game that you own, it's even legal to do it because of Fair Use and the right to make backup copies of your own game. In fact, I legally dumped my own copy of Breath of the Wild so I could play it in 4k@60fps and play it with my 360 controller. It was a pain in the backside, but worth it.

 

[Colif]

Like is a 7 year old game bad, but a 20 year old game is ok?

Well, retro appears to mean everything 20 years old now so your question excludes 7 year old games by definition

The newer the game, the more chance the people who made it might still want to make another version again. So the pushback from the makers would be stronger than for a 20 year old game. Someone emulating an old Jaguar game won't hear from Atari, if you try to emulate a newer Sony game you may.

 

[Pifanjr]

I personally think you should be able to freely download and share any abandonware, meaning any software that isn't available for official purchase anywhere and you can reasonably expect it won't be made available again.

So I don't think you should emulate a game if it's still available on some retro marketplace or download old gamest that are being sold on GOG for example, but there's still tons of games which are basically abandoned.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Well, retro appears to mean everything 20 years old now so your question excludes 7 year old games by definition

The newer the game, the more chance the people who made it might still want to make another version again. So the pushback from the makers would be stronger than for a 20 year old game. Someone emulating an old Jaguar game won't hear from Atari, if you try to emulate a newer Sony game you may.

I think there are going to be exceptions, though. Take Nintendo's game, Wind Waker. Everyone thought it's an old game, and Nintendo is never going to do anything with it. People were mad at Nintendo for being so strict about emulating their older games. But then they finally ended up coming out with Wind Waker HD years later. I guess a company has the right to guard their IPs. We never do know when they might bring it back out and try to capitalize on it again. That example is only 11 years, rather than 20, though. But even so, they're monetizing even their old NES games now on Nintendo Online.

 

[redmark_]

I personally think you should be able to freely download and share any abandonware, meaning any software that isn't available for official purchase anywhere and you can reasonably expect it won't be made available again.

So I don't think you should emulate a game if it's still available on some retro marketplace or download old gamest that are being sold on GOG for example, but there's still tons of games which are basically abandoned.

well I think abandonware is a whole different matter as it is indeed abandoned, and sometimes the copyright holder companies don't even exist anymore.

 

[Colif]

I think there are going to be exceptions, though. Take Nintendo's game, Wind Waker. Everyone thought it's an old game, and Nintendo is never going to do anything with it. People were mad at Nintendo for being so strict about emulating their older games. But then they finally ended up coming out with Wind Waker HD years later. I guess a company has the right to guard their IPs. We never do know when they might bring it back out and try to capitalize on it again. That example is only 11 years, rather than 20, though. But even so, they're monetizing even their old NES games now on Nintendo Online.

Nintendo don't share. They don't like anything that might stop people buying their consoles. If enought people ask about a game they release it again. Nintendo see it as protecting their brand. Its why you don't find Nintendo PC games... Since they have their own hardware, only way to play it now is on their hardware.
but you do find Nintendo games on old Atari consoles...

 

[Pifanjr]

well I think abandonware is a whole different matter as it is indeed abandoned, and sometimes the copyright holder companies don't even exist anymore.

It's hard to say exactly what games are abandoned though. There's almost always someone who still has the rights to a game. And as @WoodenSaucer pointed out, Nintendo is now selling their old NES games again, which I would have called "abandoned". And GOG specifically searched for copyright holders of abandoned games to try to get their games available again.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Nintendo don't share. They don't like anything that might stop people buying their consoles. If enought people ask about a game they release it again. Nintendo see it as protecting their brand. Its why you don't find Nintendo PC games... Since they have their own hardware, only way to play it now is on their hardware.
but you do find Nintendo games on old Atari consoles...

They don't always release their games because of a lot of people wanting them. People have been crying for F-Zero for a lot of years, and they don't give a rip. Try and emulate it or make a fan-made game of it, though, and they'll still shut you down. So far, they've only gone after websites that provide ROMs, and not actual users of the ROMs. But they've threatened to go after users, too. I don't think they'd succeed.

But you never know. Remember in the late 90s when the RIAA actually did sue several normal people who just downloaded MP3s? I think it was Pepsi that got mad about it and started the campaign to give free MP3 downloads on their bottle caps, and they paid the legal bills for the people that got sued. Some of them were elderly people and kids.

 

[Colif]

People have been crying for F-Zero for a lot of years, and they don't give a rip.

I am one of them. I don't know Capt Falcon relegated to being in Super Smash Bros only. But then there is Starfox as well.
I would consider buying a Nintendo console if they made it again.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I am one of them. I don't know Capt Falcon relegated to being in Super Smash Bros only. But then there is Starfox as well.
I would consider buying a Nintendo console if they made it again.

At least they made a Starfox game within the past 6 years. When they made the F-Zero minigame in Nintendo Land, I think they got a lot of people thinking they'd finally make a new HD game of it. But I'm sure you heard within the past year or two, Miyamoto (I think) said that they're not going to make a new F-Zero game, basically because they can't figure out anything new to do with it. But they sure don't have any problem coming up with new tracks for Mario Kart all the time. At this point, they could just crap out an HD remake on modern hardware, and people would love them for it.

 

[Johnway]

Christ, when did a retro forum pop up?

As a retro game I'm all for emulation. if they won't provide a reasonable solution (ie: their latest consoles support emulation at a dirt cheap price) i have no shame emulating it.

But how far back eh? At the moment i'm thinking PS2/gamecube era. Switch, 360, ps3 is a tad too new and its very much in development anyway so we're a couple years away before i'll even use them thoroughly. For ps2 stuff i've only tested on occasion to see what its like etc. I wouldn't be surprised if i was more active with it a few more years down the line. Then again, my steam collection is probably going to keep me distracted to use it excessively...

 

[Colif]

Christ, when did a retro forum pop up?

A few days ago, and ever since I been wondering why it wasn't here already. Obvious in hindsight...

 

[WoodenSaucer]

A few days ago, and ever since I been wondering why it wasn't here already. Obvious in hindsight...

Yeah, it's becoming popular as people catch on. It's a great topic to discuss.

 

[rickgilbert7822]

Streaming Retro Old Games on PC using Emulators - Is it Legal? - Mr Gadget

If you are feeling nostalgic for retro games, you just need to fork to Romspedia to download an emulator and tweak your machine into the ultimate rig. The

mrgadget.com.au

Good chance most of the companies who made these games no longer exist anyway. And I doubt many would make a fuss about it. Undoubtedly some of them still exist but I don't think that they chase people playing 20+ year old games

I love playing Stronghold 2 on my Linux

 

[JarlBSoD]

Not sure i am alowed to say it's name but there is a (as far as i know) legal retrogame stream service valiable, apparently it is comming to steam to. I tried it a while back and was okey but at the time it didn't have my fondest childhood games so i stoped subscribing after my free trial ran out.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Not sure i am alowed to say it's name but there is a (as far as i know) legal retrogame stream service valiable, apparently it is comming to steam to. I tried it a while back and was okey but at the time it didn't have my fondest childhood games so i stoped subscribing after my free trial ran out.

So it's a legal paid subscription? If it's legal, I don't see why you couldn't say what it is. But the mods may correct me on that.

 

[JarlBSoD]

So it's a legal paid subscription? If it's legal, I don't see why you couldn't say what it is. But the mods may correct me on that.

It is called Antstream, had a few "coins" left so i tried Last Ninja 3 on Amiga and semed to work fine.

 

[redmark_]

Nintendo don't share. They don't like anything that might stop people buying their consoles. If enought people ask about a game they release it again. Nintendo see it as protecting their brand. Its why you don't find Nintendo PC games... Since they have their own hardware, only way to play it now is on their hardware.
but you do find Nintendo games on old Atari consoles...

yeah, Nintendo really does have an iron fist, I still remember the fiasco that ensued about the flappy bird creator being pressured by Nintendo, which both sides refuted, so...

Nintendo just has "that" kind of reputation. 😅

Nintendo denies involvement in mysterious death of ‘Flappy Bird’

Yes, those pipes in the hit game "Flappy Bird" looked a lot like the ones from Nintendo's Mario franchise, but the video-game giant is denying reports

www.geekwire.com

Flappy Bird Creator Explains Why he Pulled The Game - IGN

Dong Nguyen, the creator of Flappy Bird, has finally broken his silence on why he pulled the top-selling game down.

www.ign.com

 

[redmark_]

It is called Antstream, had a few "coins" left so i tried Last Ninja 3 on Amiga and semed to work fine.

antstream huh, now I think I need to go check what that's about. 🤔

 

[redmark_]

It is called Antstream, had a few "coins" left so i tried Last Ninja 3 on Amiga and semed to work fine.

so I found the PCGamer article on antstream, and some others...

https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-games-store-adds-free-retro-cloud-gaming-platform-antstream-arcade/

I don't think I like their payment scheme though, especially if you might not have good internet, it would be a bummer to try to stream what is basically a game that doesn't use much computing power at all, in terms of CPU and ram.

I think I'd rather stream games that my machine can't handle rather than emulated on the cloud retro games. 😅