Question Dota 2 1080p build + Future (Diablo 4), Suggestions, opinions very welcome

[Shabanak]

Hello,

I want to build a custom pc mainly for doing some office work and for playing dota 2 in 1080p resolution.
I know i can build one even much cheaper but I think a little forward to maybe also play Diablo4 and some other Hack and slash RPG which might be available in the future.
Anyone who has some thoughts about the parts would be very much appreciated. Especially if someone knows if the parts go together well or where I could save some money or spend just a little more to get a major upgrade. Also for information I have 2 x 512 gb Western digital black which i want to implement in Raid 1 Probably. And I am looking for a cheap genuine Windows 10.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (€167.99 @ Mindfactory)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (€28.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard (€109.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) DDR4-3000 CL16 Memory (€44.08 @ Mindfactory)
Storage: Kingston A400 240 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€28.79 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: KFA2 GeForce GTX 1660 6 GB (1-Click OC) Video Card (€207.99 @ Mindfactory)
Case: NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case (€74.71 @ Mindfactory)
Power Supply: EVGA BT 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (€48.73 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €711.18
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-07-30 14:06 CEST+0200
BR

 

[Oussebon]

The main thing I'd flag in the list of parts above is the PSU - 550W would give you more freedom for future upgrades.

PSU prices are a bit all over the place at the moment but maybe a Corsair TXM? Which also has the advantage of being modular, better quality, more efficient, and sports a longer warranty.

2 x 512 gb Western digital black which i want to implement in Raid 1 Probably

WD Black whats? HDDs? M.2 NVMe SSDs?

And why RAID 1?

Also, what are you storing on which drives?

And I am looking for a cheap genuine Windows 10.

It's one or the other, not both unfortunately. Cheap keys will be grey market, and can include keys sold not in accordance with MS's terms, or even stolen keys / keys bought with stolen cards.

 

[Shabanak]

Hello Oussebon,

you have been my inspiration and now I want to build my own desktop pc. It really make sense what you said about warranty and stuff (i posted the question about 900€ used setup). I thought about it quite some time.

WD Black whats? HDDs? M.2 NVMe SSDs?

And why RAID 1?

Also, what are you storing on which drives?

These are HDDs
Raid 1 for bakcup purposes of pictures etc.

SSD would be for OS and Dota 2 and other programs of daily usage

HDDs for Programs movies and so on.

It's one or the other, not both unfortunately. Cheap keys will be grey market, and can include keys sold not in accordance with MS's terms, or even stolen keys / keys bought with stolen cards.

I didnt mean that cheap xD just if there are options below 80€ somewhere.

I also feel this build could be much stronger with only a little money like getting a 5700 or even 2070 but its not really needed for dota 2 and thats what i play most. But regarding Diablo4 it might be useful...
I think the most i d like to spent would around under 1000 €. (but would be nice to get a decent keyboard and mouse, and some 2.1 Speakers included) so around 850€ should be fine.
If you have any ideas I would be grateful.

Oh and another question. Are amd cpus having the better value for € at the moment because normally id prefer intel and nvidia built but they seem to be more expensive for same power.

Best regards and thank you

 

[Oussebon]

Glad to hear you're looking at self-building By no means the only option, but always worth considering!

In the price range you're shopping in, Intel CPUs don't make a great deal of sense. Arguably for self builds, with Intel there's little point buying anything less than an i5 10600k, overclocked on a Z490 motherboard, with a decent cooler and fast RAM,

Obviously that's a lot more expensive as a package.

Intel CPUs in the same price range as the R5 3600 - e.g. i5 10400F - tend not to fare much or any better than the R5 3600. This is because lower end Intel motherboards only support max 2666MHz RAM.

So they 'fail' versus the R5 3600 in either of 2 ways - a) what performance advantages they do have get largely negated by slower RAM - or b) you have to buy an expensive motherboard just for faster RAM, but you can't use other features provided by that board i.e. overclocking, due to having bought a cheaper (non-K) i5. So you get little more performance, while spending more, and not getting to use all the features you paid for either.

Moreover, depending on the game and and settings and the rest of the system, you might see little difference between CPUs in performance anyway. Even if you did buy a 10600k with all the trimmings.

As for GPUs, pricing varies a bit, especially at the moment.

For instance, that GTX 1660 you posted is 208€
But this GTX 1660 Super is only 212€, with twin fan models starting from 226€.

So arguably the 1660 non-Super is not very good value right now and you might as well get a 1660 Super.

AMD doesn't really have anything in that area of the market. The RX 5600 XT is an RTX 2060 equivalent, and both of these start around 300€. While the RX 5500 XT is a cut below the 1660, in the RX 580 / 1650 Super region.

Also, Diablo 4 is some way away I think, and new GPUs will be launching in between now and then.

It rarely makes sense to buy a much better GPU than you need for now, because by the time you need a much better GPU, newer GPUs with more performance and new technologies will be released. Not to mention other factors e.g. 1440p becoming mainstream and maybe you decide to upgrade the monitor too. Maybe once ractracing hardware is on all GPUs, that too will become more mainstream. A 1660 / Super is more than fine for today's games. And frankly will probably do alright if not very well in an ARPG in the style of Diablo - if you look at something like Wolcen for instance:

Wolcen Benchmark Test & Performance Analysis

Wolcen, which has been in early access for a long time, has now finally released and brings fresh wind to the action-RPG genre. Graphics and gameplay are topnotch, and the game runs well on modern graphics cards. We tested three resolutions, including 4K Ultra HD, on 26 graphics cards from AMD...

www.techpowerup.com

And if it does struggle with D4, you might be looking at purchasing an as-yet-unreleased GPU anyway.

Raid 1 for bakcup purposes of pictures etc.

RAID 1 isn't a backup, because while it protects you from one drive failing, it doesn't protect you from accidental erasure / overwriting / malware. Versioned backups to cloud storage or another system would be much better.

 

[Shabanak]

First of all thanks for your extensive reply! Very much appreciated. Your explanation makes alot of sense and it would have taken me ages to find all that out by myself.
I made some adjustments now.

The main thing I'd flag in the list of parts above is the PSU - 550W would give you more freedom for future upgrades.

I added a 650W Gold is it a shot over the goal?

There are some parts im still not sure about. I recognize its almost the whole build xD

1. The motherboard. I just took it because it has alot of good reviews and its relatively cheap
2. The cooler: Is it enough and does it fit?
3. The case. I really like the style of NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case but is it a good fit for my components.
4. The SSD. There I am really not sure which one to take as I am not the least but familiar about all the differences like PCI and "normal" SSD I jsut know the EVO has a good reputation.
5. Last but not least the compatibility notes at the end of the build. Could any of those really be an issue?
F.e. is there a better case for my purpose where I can use onboard usb or is there a better motherboard which ist not that much more expensive for using the onboard usbs of the NZXT case?
I dont get the point with shared bandwith of SATA slots...

6. DDoes a 1660 Ti makes sense

Oh I have to keep in mind I am from Austria everythings a little more expensive and mindfactory doesnt even to shipping outside of germany... But soon there might be amazon prime day
BR
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (€167.99 @ Mindfactory)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (€28.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard (€109.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€68.89 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€89.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER 6 GB OC Video Card (€231.99 @ Mindfactory)
Case: NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case (€74.70 @ Mindfactory)
Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€102.26 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit (€79.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €953.62
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-07-30 22:51 CEST+0200

 

[DXCHASE]

Just throwing my 2 cents in here to answer the bottom part...

I would also reach out to other forums and get opinions on all the components your going to be buying, in regards to you saying you're not sure which one to take when talking about SSDs. The one you have picked out though is very good imo.


1.- Your MOBO (motherboard) is a good choice for your build
2.- I personally have been using the 212 EVO as my cpu fan and its been amazing, keeps my CPU temps down, adds a good amount of airflow to the case, so its a solid choice for air cooling imo. There are other options out there of course, but this one has worked for me for years, even when overclocking my cpu.
3.- Your tower will be fine, its big enough to allow enough airflow for your components
4.- You picked out a solid one. EVOs have a good rep. none of mine have failed, also have the M.2 version and it is fast
5.- You dont seem to have any compatibility issues. your mobo is an AMD board and youre buying an AMD chip. I dont see anything else at a quick glance.

I would increase the amount of ram youre putting in there, at least up to 16GB, if you can afford it, 16gb is the basic and adds longevity to upgrading it, even if you really are only playing a couple of games at 1080p.

Hope you get what you want!

 

[Oussebon]

1) It's a good board, and the price is reasonable
2) Yes, more than enough, and it fits fine
3) It's fine. I'd probably get one with a mesh front,, but if you like that one it'll be fine
4) PCIE NVMe SSDs like the 970 Evo are faster than regular SSDs. For current gen games that makes about 0 difference however. 1-2 seconds for loading, if that, no difference to performance. You can get a WD Blue twice the size for about the same price:

Western Digital WDS100T2B0A WD Blue 1TB 3D NAND: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör

Western Digital WDS100T2B0A WD Blue 1TB 3D NAND Internal SSD 2.5" SATA - Kostenloser Versand ab 29€. Jetzt bei Amazon.de bestellen!

www.amazon.de

It's personal choice but I'd probably start with a larger SSD, and maybe add a really fast SSD if I need more storage and if they get cheaper. I wouldn't buy a 970 Evo as it's not worth the price.

5) As far as I know, none of those stop the build working

The note about the H510 and USB C. What it's saying there is that the case has a USB C 3.1 Gen 2 port at the front but that the motherboard does not have a connector for that. Only expensive motherboards will have that.

 

[Shabanak]

Thank you DX chase and Oussebon.

I would increase the amount of ram youre putting in there, at least up to 16GB, if you can afford it, 16gb is the basic and adds longevity to upgrading it, even if you really are only playing a couple of games at 1080p.

The second build already has 16 gb. Thanks also for the information on the fan good to hear.

3) It's fine. I'd probably get one with a mesh front,, but if you like that one it'll be fine

Like fractal design meshify ? Do I need ventilators for this build small ones for inside the case?

this

The note about the H510 and USB C. What it's saying there is that the case has a USB C 3.1 Gen 2 port at the front but that the motherboard does not have a connector for that. Only expensive motherboards will have that.

Does it mean I cant use this USB at all or just not at the higher speed which new gen would provide?

Final would looke something like this. Might exchange the ssd for a 500gb one saves also 40€ and I have 1tb extra because i have 2 unused hds should be plenty to start with.
Looks quit well balanced to me Are there any new parts released soon as i might wait with building around 1-2 month?

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (€167.99 @ Mindfactory)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (€28.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard (€109.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€68.89 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€102.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER 6 GB OC Video Card (€231.99 @ Mindfactory)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case (€81.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: Corsair TXM Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply (€79.99 @ Corsair DE)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit (€79.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €951.64
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available


Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-07-31 00:31 CEST+0200

Best regards

 

[Oussebon]

Like fractal design meshify ? Do I need ventilators for this build small ones for inside the case?

Meshify's an option. The stock cooling is fine, especially with the kind of hardware in your build. You can always add more fans to the front later if you wish, but no need to spend money on them until / unless you think you need them.

Does it mean I cant use this USB at all or just not at the higher speed which new gen would provide?

It means the USB C at the front of the case wouldn't work at all, though the other USB ports at the front of the case would work fine.

New parts may start releasing from September - we're expecting CPUs and GPUs though CPUs probably later in the year. High end parts usually launch first, so it's not clear what options there will be at this price level or whether prices would come down or not. Prices have already started to come down a bit, I'm not sure how much lower they would go.

 

[Shabanak]

Thank you!
one more question. Would it be a waste of money to go for the 1660 ti instead of 1660 super? are the 50€ or so more paying off in some way?

Best regards.

 

[Oussebon]

It would be a big waste of money - the 1660 Super is almost identical in performance to the 1660 ti. It would barely be worth 5€ let alone 50€.

 

[Shabanak]

Just in case someone is interested.
What i finally got with prices:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (Purchased For €159.00)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (Purchased For €26.67)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard (Purchased For €107.85)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (Purchased For €68.81)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For €53.72)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER 6 GB TUF Gaming X3 OC Video Card (Purchased For €250.48)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For €81.71)
Power Supply: Corsair TXM Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply (Purchased For €79.39)
Total: €827.63
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-08-03 01:21 CEST+0200

 

[Oussebon]

Looks very nice!

 

[Shabanak]

Looks very nice!

Thank you again for your input! Would never have been able to buy a system this balanced for that value without your help
I also like alot how it turned out and I think I got quite a good value. Was a bit of a challenge as prices differ tremendously comparing germany and austria in some cases.
Do you think I need a heat conductor paste or is there some coming with the cpu?

And another question: I was looking for windows at Kinguin and you get keys there for around 30 euros (OEM not sure what it measn). Ist this also a fraud because i always thought kinguin is a legit site...

BR

 

[Oussebon]

There's usually a tube included with the CPU cooler.

Kinguin is grey market - Windows keys for that price aren't legit, and either are being sold outside of MS's TOS or potentially could even have been bought using stolen payment methods.

 

[Shabanak]

Ah I didnt know that. Thanks.

 

[Shabanak]

I received my Ram today and found out that there are 2 different 3600mhz ones from corsair one optimized for intel and one for amd I got intel ones although i will use an amd cpu.... does it make a huge difference? its still listed as compatible though

Thanks in advance

BR

 

[Oussebon]

Not really / not likely - though have a look at this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15UWXvKQrNU&t=444s

 

[Shabanak]

Interesting, thanks. So it also depends on the motherboard. I bought these ones because they were they cheapest 3600 and i didnt know before hand also on the homepage of the vendor it didnt say anything. Well I will see after the build is finished.

 

[Shabanak]

I received all the parts now and will assemble them soon. Just one thing came to my mind. I was reading some posts about psu's and there are several threads (in other forums) which suggest a 650w PSU for 1660 super in case of oc and for being more future proof. The 650 would be around 10-15€ more. Should I consider changing it? I am asking cause my 550 is still originally sealed and it would be easy to do so now. Appreciate your opinion. Thanks

 

[Oussebon]

You don't need anywhere close to a 650W PSU.

A 1660 Super is a 125W TDP card and would still draw under 150W even at heavy loads. What the heck does anyone think is going to use the other 500 watts :/

You can hear all sorts of weird voodoo about PSUs. Especially on certain forums.

That said, you can get a 650W PSU. especially if you think you might eventually go for 4k gaming and upgrade to a beefy future GPU. Even if you don't, that's still only 10-15€ over the 7+ years you'll be keeping the PSU (TXm has 7 year warranty). So there's no real harm in getting one. That said, if you're pretty sure you're never going to get a cutting edge, top tier GPU then 550W should be more than enough.

 

[Shabanak]

Alright, thank you very much. I wont get a cutting edge GPU at least not in a forseeable time. I think of getting a 1080p 144hz monitor maybe but 550 should still do the trick then, especially because it is a not too bad one. I would also have to return the old one and wait for the new one. So thanks considering your opinion I will keep the 550. It was just because they wrote that psus are most efficient under 50% usage and I think my system in full would be little bit over 50% of 550. But should be good thanks for your input Oussebon. Will post a picutre of the build once it is finished to put a nice ending to this thread
Have a good weekend!

Br

 

[Shabanak]

Is this Spam?

 

[Oussebon]

Yeah, top notch spam.

It was just because they wrote that psus are most efficient under 50% usage and I think my system in full would be little bit over 50% of 550.

This is another PSU myth or pair of myths.

Modern PSUs are typically least efficient at very low loads. For the TX550m see:

The $80 Power Supply for Almost Everyone: The Corsair TX550M 80Plus Gold PSU Review

www.anandtech.com

You can see that at under 40W it might be less than 80% efficient.

So that means two things.
1) as far as your wallet is concerned that's pretty trivial. If it's 75% efficient instead of 85% efficient at 40W (say). That's like, what, 6 watts extra power consumption on loads so low your PC might not get that low anyway?

2) if a PSU is least efficient at its bottom ~10% load, the higher the wattage of the PSU, the larger the window for it to be inefficient at low loads.

Of course, efficiency at X wattage or % load varies between different wattage PSUs of the same family because they are built differently - e.g. 850W TXM may have different efficiency at, say, 8% load than a 550W TXM at the same wattage or load %, but that's relatively unimportant here.

But as per 1) - it's not a massive issue for you as an individual consumer. Add together every PC in the world and it starts becoming an environmental issue, which is partly why a new PSU spec is on the cusp of emerging into the wild. But as an individual there's not much you personally can do about that, other than not run the PC and other appliances when you don't need them Which will be a far bigger energy saving.

The other myth is the 50% load thing. The 'myth' usually goes that PSUs are most efficient at 50% load.

That's often technically true, but actually doesn't matter much. If you look at the Anandtech review plot of efficiency, anything over about 60W is going to be between 88-92% efficient. Which broadly lines up with Corsair's claims. Anything from around 100W (~18%) upto 550W is going to be 89%-92% efficient.

The percentage differences are so small we're only talking a handful of watts even when hundreds of watts of power consumption are involved.

I'm far from knowledgeable on the subject but I believe older PSUs used to be generally less efficient, and also see larger drop offs when further away from 50%

Power Supply Roundup: Eight 1000W for the Extreme Users

www.anandtech.com

and so the 50% myth has persisted

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ_VV3UjEBY&vl=en

 

[Shabanak]

Thanks Oussebon for this extensive information. I will get into it when I have more time because its really interesting. I wonder how this myths come into existence..

Short information about my setup, might be helpful for future builds of other people:
It took me quite some time to finish the build because I am out of practice. I just did it once before, seven years ago. Although it still was not that hard. Just the installation of the hyper 212 evo cooler is a little tricky.

The "intel" ram works perfectly well with 3600mhz. You just have to set the xmp profile in bios.
At the beginning the cpu fan was quite loud but I managed to adjust the curve (also in bios).

All in all the build works like a charm. And most parts got even more cheap now (Case is 67€ instead of 84€ on amazon f.e.). So I think its possible to get it for almost under 800€ which ist really not a lot for this budget beast. Should be possible to play games at quite high resolution at 1080p for quite some time.

At this point thanks again Oussebon (I know I said it alot already). But I really appreciate you taking time for extensive answers which really helped so much in the decision making.

And if anyone has any question about the build feel free to ask.

BR