What is an 'immersive sim'?

[ZedClampet]

I don't really understand.

Apparently the most important part is that you are able to take game systems, etc. and implement creative solutions not intended by the devs. But I think I've done that in about every game I've ever played.

Then you have weird stuff. Like, apparently, it can't be open world; it has to be a shooter; it has to involve stealth, etc. So if you have the creative solutions part but it's a melee game or there's no stealth, then it isn't an immersive sim? Why? Seems like that's entirely too restrictive when the important thing is the creative solutions. It sounds like a sub-category.

I just don't get it.

 

[Brian Boru]

This help?

Immersive sim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What don't you get? It clearly appears to seem to be a something-or-other, with a broad appeal to some group of players, or other.

Yeah, I think I see what you mean—can't be sure tho, since I don't really know what the heck we're talking about

 

[ZedClampet]

This help?

Immersive sim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What don't you get? It clearly appears to seem to be a something-or-other, with a broad appeal to some group of players, or other.

Yeah, I think I see what you mean—can't be sure tho, since I don't really know what the heck we're talking about

I read that before asking and it didn't help ;p

 

[Pifanjr]

I don't really understand.

Apparently the most important part is that you are able to take game systems, etc. and implement creative solutions not intended by the devs. But I think I've done that in about every game I've ever played.

I think the difference is that immersive sims are made to allow for multiple approaches to overcome obstacles. Either by allowing multiple solutions to preprogrammed obstacles or by giving the players enough tools to overcome any emergent obstacles. Compare to games that only allow you to get past an obstacle by doing one specific thing, even though there might be far more obvious solutions, which can break the immersion of the game.

Then you have weird stuff. Like, apparently, it can't be open world; it has to be a shooter; it has to involve stealth, etc. So if you have the creative solutions part but it's a melee game or there's no stealth, then it isn't an immersive sim? Why? Seems like that's entirely too restrictive when the important thing is the creative solutions. It sounds like a sub-category.

I think you misread that part.

 

[ZedClampet]

I think the difference is that immersive sims are made to allow for multiple approaches to overcome obstacles. Either by allowing multiple solutions to preprogrammed obstacles or by giving the players enough tools to overcome any emergent obstacles. Compare to games that only allow you to get past an obstacle by doing one specific thing, even though there might be far more obvious solutions, which can break the immersion of the game.

I think you misread that part.

I'm not sure about that. They were discussing all the factors that make up an immersive sim on PC Gamer not that long ago. It was much more than just the multiple solutions part. It definitely can't be open world and has to include stealth. I may be misremembering on the others.

 

[Mazer]

I'm gonna repeat my post from the 'what defines an RPG' thread: I don't know, but I know one when I see it.

I guess, if pressed, the defining feature for me would be not just about having game systems that allow for creative solutions, but for those systems to have some form of interplay which allows for dynamic reactions from the game world. If you have a hacking system which doesn't just open doors but also controls turrets, then that's interplay with stealth and combat. If the game has physics objects that can be moved to allow climbing them, as well as having weight which can damage enemies, that's interplay with exploration and combat. The GLOO cannon from Prey is a perfect example of a weapon which functions for both combat and exploration.

I probably wouldn't agree with stealth being a necessity, just that it tends to be one of the tentpole systems of this type of game. The ban on open worlds also seems fairly arbitrary, not sure what the reasoning was there.

 

[Pifanjr]

I'm not sure about that. They were discussing all the factors that make up an immersive sim on PC Gamer not that long ago. It was much more than just the multiple solutions part. It definitely can't be open world and has to include stealth. I may be misremembering on the others.

Where did you read that?

Immersive sim seems to be used mostly for games like Thief, Deus Ex and Dishonered. The Wikipedia page however is far more general and also lists Oblivion and Fallout 3 as immersive sims.

 

[ZedClampet]

Where did you read that?

Immersive sim seems to be used mostly for games like Thief, Deus Ex and Dishonered. The Wikipedia page however is far more general and also lists Oblivion and Fallout 3 as immersive sims.

I'll try to find it later and link it. After your post and the Wikipedia entry, I'm inclined to think that one or two of them didn't actually know what they were talking about.

 

[Brian Boru]

I'll try to find it later and link it

Might be one of these, the likeliest candidates from a quick PCG search on "immersive":

The PC Gamer Show special: an immersive sim design roundtable

An hour-long chat with the veteran designers of Deus Ex, Dishonored, and more.

www.pcgamer.com

History of the best immersive sims

It may be a rarity, but the immersive sim is one of gaming’s great genres. We delve deep to find the best.

www.pcgamer.com

The future of immersive sims

As the mainstream moves onto pastures new, what does the future hold for this shadowy genre?

www.pcgamer.com

Revisiting System Shock, and the birth of immersive sim design

Back to Citadel to see the origins of the emergent sim.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[ZedClampet]

Might be one of these, the likeliest candidates from a quick PCG search on "immersive":

The PC Gamer Show special: an immersive sim design roundtable

An hour-long chat with the veteran designers of Deus Ex, Dishonored, and more.

www.pcgamer.com

History of the best immersive sims

It may be a rarity, but the immersive sim is one of gaming’s great genres. We delve deep to find the best.

www.pcgamer.com

The future of immersive sims

As the mainstream moves onto pastures new, what does the future hold for this shadowy genre?

www.pcgamer.com

Revisiting System Shock, and the birth of immersive sim design

Back to Citadel to see the origins of the emergent sim.

www.pcgamer.com

Thanks! Will check them out when I get a chance later.

 

[Lafoudre586]

An immersive sim is a genre of video game that emphasizes player choice. Its main feature is the use of simulation systems that respond to a variety of player actions, combined with access to a wide range of abilities.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Could it be argued that Half Life 2 had some immersive sim 'lite' elements with the gravity gun?

I dont know how to define it either, other than Arkane makes them currently. The wiki article cites Fallout 3 and Oblivion as being immersive sims. My initial reaction is that theyre absolutely not, but I'm finding it hard to define why exactly.

 

[Zloth]

Yeah, it's messy. We can get through RPGs with wizards, fighters, bards, clerics, and all sorts of other characters with very different tools, after all, but that doesn't make it an immersive sim.

I was really surprised to see people put Thief on the list of early immersive sims. I guess Thief gives you a choice between killing people and knocking them out, but that always seemed like a silly choice to me. These "knocked out" people stay "knocked out" for hours! Game-wise, they are exactly like dead enemies - you just get extra credit for killing them in that manner. (And remembering not to stash them in some moat.)

 

[mainer]

I'm really starting to dislike game genres and classifications, so many games just blend together different elements, that being placed in a specific "genre" just doesn't work; at least for me.

For me, an Immersive Sim game is more of an RPG. A game that allows the player different choices or methods to complete a certain task or quest. Three of my favorite games of all time: System Shock 1&2 and Deus Ex, I still consider as being RPGs. People can label them how they want. I'm assuming the persona of a specific character, and through my actions/choices/and sometimes dialogue, I forge my way through the game world, and all of that leads to a specific ending (of which there should be several).

As @Kaamos_Llama stated, Half Life 2 could very well be considered to be an "Immersive Sim". Labels make no difference, it's all in our own perception.

 

[Zloth]

Yeah, genres don't work well now. They never work very well, but they are supposed to be good enough so you can guess that it will be in one of two places in a given store. These days? Not so much, I think.

Actually, that could make a good topic....