Pathfinder: Kingmaker

[Sarafan]

So it finally happened. I started playing Pathfinder: Kingmaker and after 12 hours, I can say that it fully meets my expectations. It's basically Baldur's Gate set in a different world. I'm still in Chapter 1, so I didn't have the occasion to manage my kingdom yet, but heard that this element is done quite well.

Believe it or not, but I've spent almost 3 hours on the character creation screen. And it has provided me tons of fun. In the end I've picked my favorite D&D class - Sorcerer, but even within this single class there are tons of things to decide about. Prologue was quite hard in the beginning due to the fact that all of my three characters were basically spell casters and there was no option to rest and refresh the spell list, but right now the situation is under control. I started the game on Hard difficulty setting and decided to drop it to Challenging. Right now the game is as hard as it should be for my liking.

I'm waiting impatiently for the turn-based mode. I prefer real-time-with-pause, but it might be usefull in harder battles. I know there is a mod which implements the turn-based mode. I prefer to wait for the official release however.

Looks like I'm going to spend a few dozens of hours in this game and I'm already sure it'll be worth it!

 

[drunkpunk]

I've tried to get into this game, and I love the prologue, but once I leave that I have a hard time really staying connected with it. It's definitely a solid-quality game, but I think some of the things are still a bit over my head so it's kept me from really getting into it. I'm thinking I might enjoy it more in turn-based mode, but I'm also waiting on the official release. I will probably give it another go sometime before that releases, I need something to keep me occupied until BG3 and I'm almost done with my achievement run in Divinity.

 

[Zloth]

I spent about as much time on the character creation. There's a LOT of different classes to check out! In the end, I picked the magus archer (?) but it didn't work out so well. He was able to add ranged touch attack spells to his bow shots, which sounded great and was actually quite nice early on. Then the game just stopped giving me ranged touch spells. He was just adding Snowball to his arrows until the late game!

The game got pretty tough even in Chapter 1 until I hired on an alchemist that specialized in bomb throwing.

Turn mode really helped me understand what was going on in the battle system at the start of the game. I kept with it because I like turn based modes a lot but, if the official version lets you switch back and forth, it's definitely worth turning on when new mechanics show up.

I liked the Kingdom mechanics at first but the got tiresome later. MUCH later. It took me over 280 hours to get through the game. (Like I said, turn mode pretty much the whole way!)

 

[Sarafan]

I've tried to get into this game, and I love the prologue, but once I leave that I have a hard time really staying connected with it. It's definitely a solid-quality game, but I think some of the things are still a bit over my head so it's kept me from really getting into it. I'm thinking I might enjoy it more in turn-based mode, but I'm also waiting on the official release. I will probably give it another go sometime before that releases, I need something to keep me occupied until BG3 and I'm almost done with my achievement run in Divinity.

You should definitely give it another try. I'm not far in the game, but I already know that it'll be worth every minute that I'll commit to playing it. I just love this type of games. Did you play any of the older classic RPGs like Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment or Pillars of Eternity? What are your feelings about them?

 

[Sarafan]

The game got pretty tough even in Chapter 1 until I hired on an alchemist that specialized in bomb throwing.

I suspect that the game can be harder in the beginning. I had some serious problems in the Prologue, but that's due to my main character class and lack of the option to rest. Chapter 1 also provided me some problems until I filled my entire party. It got easier after that.

Turn mode really helped me understand what was going on in the battle system at the start of the game. I kept with it because I like turn based modes a lot but, if the official version lets you switch back and forth, it's definitely worth turning on when new mechanics show up.

They announced that you'll be able to turn on and off the official turn-based mode on the fly. It'll be based on the mod, so I presume there won't be much difference between them.

I liked the Kingdom mechanics at first but the got tiresome later. MUCH later. It took me over 280 hours to get through the game. (Like I said, turn mode pretty much the whole way!)

That's a really nice score! I'm hoping for 60-70 hours with real-time mode.

 

[Zloth]

Be very careful with the Charge attack when there isn't a very clear path to the enemy. In a bit of terrible irony, Pathfinder's pathfinding code isn't very good, so your character will sometimes run around in circles to try and find an opening. Most of the time, this just looks silly and wastes time. If the crazy dance brings your character too close to an enemy, though, you're going to take an opportunity hit and those can cause serious pain.

Oh, there's a mod that's really incredibly helpful. I forgot the name after all this time but it would highlight spell scrolls if the selected character had not learned the spell yet. Without that mod, figuring out what you can sell and what you need to buy is tedious. There's another that lets you keep notes on the locations in the main map and give them icon colors, too, that was real handy in the early and mid game. If you walk into some area and find yourself facing something way too strong for you, you can just make a note of what's there so you can come back later.

 

[OsaX Nymloth]

I loved it. And I didn't even finish it...yet.

My problem is, even on normal difficulty, the spikes were really big and all over the place. I remember one dungeon where my team went like hot knife into butter - easy fights left and right, demolishing legions of enemies without breaking a sweat. And then a boss fight triggered in one room. We were annihilated. Took me about 3-4 tries and really thinking about the engagement for a change. It was fine and fun.
But in the endgame (I think) there was a new fight

Spoiler: spoiler

at bald hill (?) with Witch Hunt (not the Witcher kind) and they WRECKED ME. So much that after X tries I gave up and didn't return to this day.

Still I had good time. Over 100h, the amount of content in there is gloriously astonishing. Also it's super worth noting how the game changed since release - after 6 months of updates lots of the game became so much better. It's a labor of love from the devs and they should be praised for that.

 

[Sarafan]

Be very careful with the Charge attack when there isn't a very clear path to the enemy. In a bit of terrible irony, Pathfinder's pathfinding code isn't very good, so your character will sometimes run around in circles to try and find an opening. Most of the time, this just looks silly and wastes time. If the crazy dance brings your character too close to an enemy, though, you're going to take an opportunity hit and those can cause serious pain.

Yeah, I've noticed that there are some problems with pathfinding, but I'm quite used to that. Infinity Engine games and Neverwinter Nights also had such problems. In the past I also played a lot of RTS games and bad pathfinding was quite common there.

Oh, there's a mod that's really incredibly helpful.

I think that I'll stick with vanilla version of the game for now. But thanks for the mod tips!

I loved it. And I didn't even finish it...yet.

My problem is, even on normal difficulty, the spikes were really big and all over the place. I remember one dungeon where my team went like hot knife into butter - easy fights left and right, demolishing legions of enemies without breaking a sweat. And then a boss fight triggered in one room. We were annihilated. Took me about 3-4 tries and really thinking about the engagement for a change. It was fine and fun.

I'm playing on Challenging difficulty level and the game gives me some problems from time to time, but nothing I can't handle. I hope it stays this way till the end. But in any case I'm prepared to lower the difficulty level if there's a need. I don't have pressure to finish games on higher difficulty levels anymore.

 

[Zloth]

I don't have pressure to finish games on higher difficulty levels anymore.

Wait, what? What is this insanity?

 

[Pifanjr]

Wait, what? What is this insanity?

The last time I chose to set the difficulty high was for Bioshock and I quit the game after the first chapter because it was too bothersome. It made the game way too slow without making it more fun or satisfying to play.

 

[Sarafan]

The last time I chose to set the difficulty high was for Bioshock and I quit the game after the first chapter because it was too bothersome. It made the game way too slow without making it more fun or satisfying to play.

TBH I must fight a little with myself just not to drop the game when I select too hard difficulty level. It's only a few clicks to change it, but it can be so painfull... Luckily usually I manage to do it. Sometimes I make a break and then lower the difficulty level.

 

[Zloth]

Guess I'll be the only one with the `cheevy then!

(Actually, the best achievement in the game isn't on the list: its the new rug the tavern gets in the mid-game. Loved that reward!)

 

[MaddMann]

I really tried to like that game. I had huge hopes for it (which might have been part of the problem) and I kick started it. One of my dream games was a more robust version of the Kingmaker expansion of Neverwinter. I wanted to do my adventures to the point where I became a king and got actual control of my Kingdom where I could use all this amassed power and wealth to benefit my subjects. While the Kingmaker campaign fell a little short in that regard, it did ignite my imagination. Then I played Pathfinder Kingmaker. First I found I really don't like the Pathfinder system (mostly likely because I was a die hard DnD player and didn't bother to look for the little changes). Then, at least when the game first came out, it felt like a game being run by an overly aggressive DM who decided his role in life was the kill the players, not provide them with a fun campaign. I got around 20 hours of playtime in before I hit around the 10th game breaking bug and it just killed my will to play. The devs have been very active though and most of the things I ran into have gone away, problem is in that time I played the Divinity games and realized I could never go back to a game like Pathfinder where the choices are... limited. Not by the writers, but by the core mechanics of the engine they built the game on.

 

[drunkpunk]

Okay this past weekend I finally decided to give it another go and sink some time into reading up on the mechanics and all that jazz. I'm actually loving this game, it's so incredibly well done. I'm close to the end of chapter 2, I think, and I'm enjoying just about everything it has going for it. The kingdom management is fun, although I do find myself going back to the throne room way too often. I love the decisions it puts in front of me, even if they don't have much significance or impact I've put a lot more thought into these decisions than I usually do in any RPG. Just thinking things like, how would my character react to this? What would the consequences possibly be? How does this reflect my alignment? There are also a lot of little details that I love. Simple stuff like people bowing down while I'm walking through town goes a long way. And I'm actually really enjoying the companion quests, too. I usually find myself not caring much or even noticing when I'm focusing on companion quests, but they are very well written in this game.

So yeah I'm really digging it. I am also pretty excited for the turn based mode to see how it changes the dynamic of things. Despite being a huge BG fan since the 90s I'm not a huge fan of RtwP, although I think they nailed the speed of combat and turns with pathfinder. I may actually prefer RtwP for this one because of that.

 

[Sarafan]

Guess I'll be the only one with the `cheevy then!

I'm playing on Challenging difficulty, so if I finish the game on this level I'll get the achievement as well. We'll see if I manage to do it before tearing my hair off.

First I found I really don't like the Pathfinder system (mostly likely because I was a die hard DnD player and didn't bother to look for the little changes).

That's quite strange. Pathfinder is basically a little expanded D&D. If you like D&D you should like Pathfinder as well. I'm also a fan of D&D and those changes don't bother me.

Then, at least when the game first came out, it felt like a game being run by an overly aggressive DM who decided his role in life was the kill the players, not provide them with a fun campaign.

Yes, the game is quite hard. But you can always change the difficulty level. I haven't tried the game on lower difficulties, but I suspect that it's quite easy if you do so.

problem is in that time I played the Divinity games and realized I could never go back to a game like Pathfinder where the choices are... limited. Not by the writers, but by the core mechanics of the engine they built the game on.

What do you have in mind precisely? The environmental elements of the game? I'm thinking about the results of using spells in combat for example. In D:OS2 you can ignite things up, soak them etc. You can't do that in Pathfinder: Kingmaker unfortunately. But it's not necessarily a limitation of core mechanics. BG3 will be also based on D&D ruleset and it'll offer options quite similar to D:OS2. It's possible to reconcile both.

So yeah I'm really digging it. I am also pretty excited for the turn based mode to see how it changes the dynamic of things. Despite being a huge BG fan since the 90s I'm not a huge fan of RtwP, although I think they nailed the speed of combat and turns with pathfinder. I may actually prefer RtwP for this one because of that.

Turn-based mode will be especially useful on higher difficulty levels. I've already found situations in which it would be very useful. It should arrive somewhere in this month. So we're probably weeks from the release date.

 

[Zloth]

I'm playing on Challenging difficulty, so if I finish the game on this level I'll get the achievement as well. We'll see if I manage to do it before tearing my hair off.

So now you've got a reason!

P.S. It's the COVID year. Everyone's hair looks terrible anyway. Rip & Tear!

 

[OsaX Nymloth]

Started new game, still not sure what kind of character I want to make tho. For now I have sorcerer as my MC and I wonder about mixing some fighter/rouge with it. I am just at the beginning, level 2 - currently getting my ass handed to me by spiders in cave where you go for some berries for Bokken. You know which one.

I remember on my first time I decided to come back there later on - not a bad idea considering all the negative stats I already got.

 

[Sarafan]

Started new game, still not sure what kind of character I want to make tho.

On what difficulty level are you playing? I found hard to be a little frustrating...

 

[OsaX Nymloth]

@Sarafan custom that is basically normal with 1.0 damage from enemies.

Well I don't dare going for hard to be honest. I got kicked so much on first time, even after balance patches....

Where are you now in story?

 

[Sarafan]

Where are you now in story?

Still somewhere in Chapter 2 (the one where you have an occasion to rule your kingdom for the first time). I'm playing a few games simultaneously, so my progress is quite slow. Probably I started the game a little too early after finishing D:OS2. I bigger break would be advisable for me.

 

[OsaX Nymloth]

I see, I will probably get to that chapter soon-ish as I know my way around. At the same time I play only like 1-2 hour so.... it may actually take some time.

I swear I saw easier boss battles than those spider swarms in that damn cave.

PS - Amri and Harrim are great NPCs

 

[Sarafan]

PS - Amri and Harrim are great NPCs

Yes they are. Although nothing can beat the crazy party from Planescape Torment or a little less crazy party from NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer!

 

[OsaX Nymloth]

Yes they are. Although nothing can beat the crazy party from Planescape Torment or a little less crazy party from NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer!

Can't comment on the NWN2, but really these guys stories will get just better and better. Seriously on pair with some of the Infinity Engine golden titles IMHO.

 

[Zloth]

A little cash spent on an Alchemist bomber should help quite a bit against those spiders (the big ones and the little ones).

 

[OsaX Nymloth]

I know, I kinda came there too early and I suffer for it. Still, swarm enemies are one of that kind that I hate to engage

Also fun fact, once in a cave a found a Extremely Rare And Powerful Enemy (Crag Linnorm). I took offense in game saying I can't beat it and decided to try. Few times later, enemy was dead. Well, should be - but it would drop to 1HP and regenerate. This is when I discovered the need to have cold iron to finish it. I was not pleased.