PCG Article Nvidia CEO reportedly hands staff a raise despite lackluster quarter for company

[ZedClampet]

The company will instead "find and eliminate all waste of time, processes and materials and improve upon them."

That's good to hear, but they also need to be cutting prices. Years of flippant price gouging has left our hobby ridiculously expensive.

So what's the analysis of what happened to the PC sales? Normal ebb and flow? Increased competition from AMD? People switching to next gen consoles (I doubt it since you can't buy those either). People learning to live with what they had during the electronics drought? Worldwide economic downturn? Maybe people are waiting for the next gen GPU's? I would assume most of the losses were in pre-built desktops and gaming laptops. Prices still haven't recovered from the shortage, which is extra stupid if they are selling 44 percent less than last year.

Game sales, last I heard, were still high, so it makes little sense that hardware sales have dropped.

 

[Frag Maniac]

People learning to live with what they had during the electronics drought?

I think it's that and largely due to the long period of sky high GPU prices and shortages. So the lower hardware sales make sense to me. Besides that, don't forget that many lost jobs due to COVID or went into cautious mode with the economy tanking, especially with the recent rise in inflation, so that is a big part of it too I think. A lot of people are spending more on gas and food, which leaves less for luxuries like PC gaming upgrades or builds.

I just hope mining goes away, because it's been a real thorn in the side of gamers. As far as Nvidia goes, they've needed an efficiency focused cleanup for some time.

 

[DXCHASE]

I can see people not buying GPUs as much as what gaming media might show because they were rediculous for the most part for a good while too. On top of that, there were dips in materials to make cards for a while, someone in manufacturing, i can tell you that has a huge impact on sales.

Prices still haven't recovered from the shortage

It depends on the company, newegg shuffle has 3080tis going for 850. EVGA has 3090s for 1,100. It may just be a US thing but.

 

[ZedClampet]

I can see people not buying GPUs as much as what gaming media might show because they were rediculous for the most part for a good while too. On top of that, there were dips in materials to make cards for a while, someone in manufacturing, i can tell you that has a huge impact on sales.




It depends on the company, newegg shuffle has 3080tis going for 850. EVGA has 3090s for 1,100. It may just be a US thing but.

Oops. I meant to say they hadn't recovered in the sense that it wouldn't have been reflected in their quarterly earnings.

 

[Zloth]

Yep, they need a sale to clear the warehouses out! Errr, unless COVID gets harsh again, or the China/Tiawan thing gets worse - in which case they should double their prices.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Another factor is cryptocurrency. With Ethereum transitioning to a Proof of Stake model, there isn't nearly as much mining happening anymore.

 

[Frag Maniac]

Another factor is cryptocurrency. With Ethereum transitioning to a Proof of Stake model, there isn't nearly as much mining happening anymore.

To me that is a very good thing. I say let mining die and miners whom see fit to game AND partake in a self fulfilling activity that hurts gamers pay for their indulgence and hypocrisy. Same for the actors that advertise crypto, good riddens to all of them. I'd be OK with it if they all wound up black balled like Kevin Spacy.

 

[Sarafan]

Right now the GPU prices aren't bad, especially if you compare that to the things that were happening a few months ago. Let's keep our fingers crossed that the situation in Taiwan doesn't escalate. Both MSI and ASUS are from there, so I don't even want to think what would happen with hardware prices if it turned into war.

 

[Jazzynuxer]

Right now the GPU prices aren't bad, especially if you compare that to the things that were happening a few months ago. Let's keep our fingers crossed that the situation in Taiwan doesn't escalate. Both MSI and ASUS are from there, so I don't even want to think what would happen with hardware prices if it turned into war.

Don't let the disaster happen again, because it has had an impact on all sectors of the world economy, I was also affected because I was fired from the company due to the impact of last year's disaster.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

To me that is a very good thing. I say let mining die and miners whom see fit to game AND partake in a self fulfilling activity that hurts gamers pay for their indulgence and hypocrisy. Same for the actors that advertise crypto, good riddens to all of them. I'd be OK with it if they all wound up black balled like Kevin Spacy.

Yeah, it's a great thing for many reasons. Crypto moving to a Proof of Stake model means video cards will be lower priced and more available for us gamers. It's also really good for the environment, since they won't be using massive amounts of power just to mine coins. It's also good for crypto because it removes some of that stigma surrounding it.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Yeah, it's a great thing for many reasons. Crypto moving to a Proof of Stake model means video cards will be lower priced and more available for us gamers. It's also really good for the environment, since they won't be using massive amounts of power just to mine coins. It's also good for crypto because it removes some of that stigma surrounding it.

Its only Ethereum moving to proof of stake AFAIK? Theres still a million trash coins out there for miners to get into, theyll move to whatever gives the best return per watt next time there's a boom. If there is one, but Ive been waiting for BTC to fall of a cliff since it hit 1000 USD in 2013 or whatever. All other crypto roughly follows BTC, at least it still did last time I looked.

Game sales, last I heard, were still high, so it makes little sense that hardware sales have dropped.

Others said already but large amount of sales are crypto related. Miners will buy multiple cards at once to sit in farms. Gamers buy one and keep it for several years.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Ethereum miners have spent approximately $15 billion on graphics processing units (GPUs), according to Bitpro Consulting

,

Now theyre selling them all off on Ebay and people arent buying direct as much. Coupled with the other stuff you mentioned in OP it all adds up.

Problem for me is now Nvidia and AMD are used to charging 2000 USD for a top end model after all the gougin that went on, its getting kind of expensive for ordinary types. 10-12 years ago the top dog chip cost a quarter of that. Pretty disgusting IMO unless someone wants to tell me their costs have gone up 4x in that time as well.

 

[ZedClampet]

Others said already but large amount of sales are crypto related. Miners will buy multiple cards at once to sit in farms. Gamers buy one and keep it for several years.

I was only talking about the game-related sales, as per the article.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Its only Ethereum moving to proof of stake AFAIK? Theres still a million trash coins out there for miners to get into, theyll move to whatever gives the best return per watt next time there's a boom. If there is one, but Ive been waiting for BTC to fall of a cliff since it hit 1000 USD in 2013 or whatever. All other crypto roughly follows BTC, at least it still did last time I looked.

Yeah, you're right. But ETH going to PoS is eliminating a lot. It was the second biggest mining coin, by far, after Bitcoin. Bitcoin is still mined, but two things about that. 1) We're so far along in the process that it's becoming more unprofitable to mine. 2) People are predicting that ETH is going to overtake Bitcoin as the top coin.

As for the other trash coins that mine, the only significant one now is Dogecoin, and it was way less than Ethereum in market share. The majority of new trash coins are Proof of Stake and you don't mine them. Mining is heading toward becoming a thing of the past.

 

[ZedClampet]

Another factor is cryptocurrency. With Ethereum transitioning to a Proof of Stake model, there isn't nearly as much mining happening anymore.

No, they were only counting game related sales.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

No, they were only counting game related sales.

NVIDIA Investors Claw Back at Company, Claiming $1 Billion Mining GPU Revenue Hidden Away in the Gaming Division

NVIDIA investors have recently filed a suit against the company, claiming that NVIDIA wrongfully detailed its revenue indicators between departments. The main point of contention here is that investors claim NVIDIA knowingly obfuscated the total value of the crypto market boom (and subsequent...

www.techpowerup.com

But can you trust what they say?

And to be fair how do they know anyway? I can buy 3 cards and use them all for mining or put them, in a rig for me my wife and daughter, but theyd never know the difference.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

Yeah, you're right. But ETH going to PoS is eliminating a lot. It was the second biggest mining coin, by far, after Bitcoin. Bitcoin is still mined, but two things about that. 1) We're so far along in the process that it's becoming more unprofitable to mine. 2) People are predicting that ETH is going to overtake Bitcoin as the top coin.

As for the other trash coins that mine, the only significant one now is Dogecoin, and it was way less than Ethereum in market share. The majority of new trash coins are Proof of Stake and you don't mine them. Mining is heading toward becoming a thing of the past.

Havent been following it as much as I once did, as I used to trade a bit. But there used to be literally dozens of coins to mine and people would change them daily based on profitability. Is it all falling down that much or going proof of stake? People in the know havent mined Bitcoin in like 5 years since asics cames out.

I know that mainstream people bail out whenever it becomes unprofitable, but theres always been a hardcore who keep chugging on. The coins mined might not be profitable now but when the price goes up later on its all money.

I hope not because it sucks for me, but I can see it all happening again if economically things get more stable and pries boom again.

 

[ZedClampet]

Havent been following it as much as I once did, as I used to trade a bit. But there used to be literally dozens of coins to mine and people would change them daily based on profitability. Is it all falling down that much or going proof of stake? People in the know havent mined Bitcoin in like 5 years since asics cames out.

I know that mainstream people bail out whenever it becomes unprofitable, but theres always been a hardcore who keep chugging on. The coins mined might not be profitable now but when the price goes up later on its all money.

I hope not because it sucks for me, but I can see it all happening again if economically things get more stable and pries boom again.

There are a lot of people on the other board I post to who are into crypto, but I guess they would constitute a third group. They never mine. They just buy their crypto.

But Etherium getting away should help PC gaming quite a bit, I would think, since it's a major player and most of what you hear about in Asia seems to involve Etherium mining. Not all of these coins are going to survive forever, and I don't think the mainstream miners will make the move to these other coins, but I could be wrong (but when has that ever happened? hahahaha)

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

There are a lot of people on the other board I post to who are into crypto, but I guess they would constitute a third group. They never mine. They just buy their crypto.

But Etherium getting away should help PC gaming quite a bit, I would think, since it's a major player and most of what you hear about in Asia seems to involve Etherium mining. Not all of these coins are going to survive forever, and I don't think the mainstream miners will make the move to these other coins, but I could be wrong (but when has that ever happened? hahahaha)

Theres some pretty big crypto hedge funds about it seems now. It definitely attracts people hoping for easy moon lambos on the side, cant blame them I guess.

It will help the gaming situation for now, and I hope @WoodenSaucer is right and GPU mining is finally dying out too.

Thing that worries me is what if demand for a coin to mine for the average small scale miners out there means that something else will come along to fill that spot, like Ethereum did to Bitcoin.

 

[ZedClampet]

Thing that worries me is what if demand for a coin to mine for the average small scale miners out there means that something else will come along to fill that spot, like Ethereum did to Bitcoin.

I really don't know anything about this, but my impression (mostly from reading PCG articles) is that mainstream miners get all in or all out of mining. They don't seem to say, "Well, this isn't profitable. Where can I move my mining to?" or even "This isn't profitable now, so I'm going to wait until the price starts going back up". They just shut down completely until the next wave, at which point they start frantically buying up mining equipment again. That sort of behavior doesn't seem to indicate a basic demand for mining for these small scale people. It seems more like of a crime of opportunity.

But I guess that all it would take would be for the big miners to switch to another coin and make a lot of noise about it to reinvigorate mining. Dunno.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Havent been following it as much as I once did, as I used to trade a bit. But there used to be literally dozens of coins to mine and people would change them daily based on profitability. Is it all falling down that much or going proof of stake? People in the know havent mined Bitcoin in like 5 years since asics cames out.

I know that mainstream people bail out whenever it becomes unprofitable, but theres always been a hardcore who keep chugging on. The coins mined might not be profitable now but when the price goes up later on its all money.

I hope not because it sucks for me, but I can see it all happening again if economically things get more stable and pries boom again.

Yeah there are still dozens of coins you can mine. But none of them are very significant these days from a market share perspective, other than Bitcoin and Dogecoin. The newer ones that are becoming popular are all PoS. Although I think I may have heard some people are trying to start up a replacement for ETH so they can keep mining. The problem with that is that the price fluctuation is going to be dictated by the market (the people who buy and sell), rather than the miners. In this age of people being mad about the environmental impact of mining, I don't believe the market is going to take to that. There is a heck of a lot more positive buzz about ETH going PoS than pretty much anything in crypto right now. I truly believe it's going to make a trickle down difference for us gamers.

But you did make a good point. Video cards are more available because miners aren't buying them all up right now. But like you pointed out, it's a bear market right now, so they're not as excited about mining. Will that change when the market turns? Probably somewhat. But hopefully ETH and others going to PoS will balance that out a little.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

I really don't know anything about this, but my impression (mostly from reading PCG articles) is that mainstream miners get all in or all out of mining. They don't seem to say, "Well, this isn't profitable. Where can I move my mining to?" or even "This isn't profitable now, so I'm going to wait until the price starts going back up". They just shut down completely until the next wave, at which point they start frantically buying up mining equipment again. That sort of behavior doesn't seem to indicate a basic demand for mining for these small scale people. It seems more like of a crime of opportunity.

But I guess that all it would take would be for the big miners to switch to another coin and make a lot of noise about it to reinvigorate mining. Dunno.

The majority do that, but at the same time the 'trend setters' are the ones who tell those guys what coin is profitable to mine and those are the guys who dont really stop in the dips but keep close tabs on exactly which coin is most profitable and just keep at it. At least I think so, I know for sure there are people who have mined all the time and scaled up and down as profitability rises and falls.

Yeah there are still dozens of coins you can mine. But none of them are very significant these days from a market share perspective, other than Bitcoin and Dogecoin. The newer ones that are becoming popular are all PoS. Although I think I may have heard some people are trying to start up a replacement for ETH so they can keep mining. The problem with that is that the price fluctuation is going to be dictated by the market (the people who buy and sell), rather than the miners. In this age of people being mad about the environmental impact of mining, I don't believe the market is going to take to that. There is a heck of a lot more positive buzz about ETH going PoS than pretty much anything in crypto right now. I truly believe it's going to make a trickle down difference for us gamers.

But you did make a good point. Video cards are more available because miners aren't buying them all up right now. But like you pointed out, it's a bear market right now, so they're not as excited about mining. Will that change when the market turns? Probably somewhat. But hopefully ETH and others going to PoS will balance that out a little.

Hope so! I didnt realize there were only those two coins that were mineable. You do have more trust in the market caring about environmental issues than me though. If its still relatively easy to pump and dump small coins and do scam ICO's like it used to be I would think it would be relatively easy for an organized group of GPU miners to raise the price on a chosen coin so they could make mining profitable again. I'm probably thinking too much though, lot of ifs there.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Hope so! I didnt realize there were only those two coins that were mineable. You do have more trust in the market caring about environmental issues than me though. If its still relatively easy to pump and dump small coins and do scam ICO's like it used to be I would think it would be relatively easy for an organized group of GPU miners to raise the price on a chosen coin so they could make mining profitable again. I'm probably thinking too much though, lot of ifs there.

No, you misunderstood me on the first thing. There are still several coins that are mined. I'm just saying most of them aren't significant. After Ethereum is completely out, Bitcoin and Dogecoin are the only two big ones that are still mined.

As for the pumping and dumping of small "sh*t coins," those are all pretty much Proof of Stake because they're the easiest to fork an already existing contract and set up a new token. One thing I've noticed from my time messing with the crypto market, and also seeing the other mining side from PC gaming, is that for the most part, miners and crypto market players don't really mingle much, except for when miners want to sell off their earnings. It's like they're two different worlds. As far as the charts go, miners don't have much to do with the prices. It's all the people playing the markets that drive the prices.

In my opinion, it's going to be a lot easier for a PoS "sh*t coin" with the right team behind it to rise in the markets than a new mining coin. The crypto world is ready to move away from PoW for many reasons. If you understand the tech behind those models, the whole purpose for a coin to be set up either way is for security in the blockchain. And the tech behind PoW (mining) is antiquated. The newer tech works a lot better for its intended purpose. It's kind of like people trying to keep VHS relevant when we're trying to move toward 4k Blu rays.

 

[Brian Boru]

charging 2000 USD for a top end model … 10-12 years ago the top dog chip cost a quarter of that. Pretty disgusting IMO

Absolutely agree. I've never spent over ~$300 on a graphics card, going for the 'sweet spot' where price and performance are optimally balanced.

Intel hovering near the space will hopefully help prices return to reasonable, altho only 3 competitors is hardly a good market profile for consumers long-term.

 

[Kaamos_Llama]

No, you misunderstood me on the first thing. There are still several coins that are mined. I'm just saying most of them aren't significant. After Ethereum is completely out, Bitcoin and Dogecoin are the only two big ones that are still mined.

As for the pumping and dumping of small "sh*t coins," those are all pretty much Proof of Stake because they're the easiest to fork an already existing contract and set up a new token. One thing I've noticed from my time messing with the crypto market, and also seeing the other mining side from PC gaming, is that for the most part, miners and crypto market players don't really mingle much, except for when miners want to sell off their earnings. It's like they're two different worlds. As far as the charts go, miners don't have much to do with the prices. It's all the people playing the markets that drive the prices.

In my opinion, it's going to be a lot easier for a PoS "sh*t coin" with the right team behind it to rise in the markets than a new mining coin. The crypto world is ready to move away from PoW for many reasons. If you understand the tech behind those models, the whole purpose for a coin to be set up either way is for security in the blockchain. And the tech behind PoW (mining) is antiquated. The newer tech works a lot better for its intended purpose. It's kind of like people trying to keep VHS relevant when we're trying to move toward 4k Blu rays.

Interesting, and good to know! I only have the vaguest idea about how blockchain actually works, so I really needed the Star Trek metaphor.

Absolutely agree. I've never spent over ~$300 on a graphics card, going for the 'sweet spot' where price and performance are optimally balanced.

Intel hovering near the space will hopefully help prices return to reasonable, altho only 3 competitors is hardly a good market profile for consumers long-term.

Yea its horrible, hopefully Intel can make a dent.

New benchies from Intel,

Intel Arc A750 Graphics Card Gaming Benchmarks Revealed, 5% Faster Than RTX 3060 Across 48 DX12 & Vulkan Titles

Intel has posted the latest Arc A750 graphics card gaming benchmarks across a wide selection of titles running DX12 and Vulkan API.

wccftech.com

Drivers are not good either going by whats being said so might improve, but also cant usually trust benchies from the manufacturer. Its a bit late in the game to release a card of that tier but RTX 4000 rumoured to be mostly next year now so they may have some time if AMD waits as well. The A780 a bit faster but still not challenging top end as I understand it.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Yea its horrible, hopefully Intel can make a dent.

New benchies from Intel,

Intel Arc A750 Graphics Card Gaming Benchmarks Revealed, 5% Faster Than RTX 3060 Across 48 DX12 & Vulkan Titles

Intel has posted the latest Arc A750 graphics card gaming benchmarks across a wide selection of titles running DX12 and Vulkan API.

wccftech.com

Drivers are not good either going by whats being said so might improve, but also cant usually trust benchies from the manufacturer. Its a bit late in the game to release a card of that tier but RTX 4000 rumoured to be mostly next year now so they may have some time if AMD waits as well. The A780 a bit faster but still not challenging top end as I understand it.

What? Last I heard, it seemed like Intel was going to dump Arc.