Is there a cure for the average mob's lust for death?

[ZedClampet]

Hi, I'm a gear level 81 vampire. Every night, I put on my straw hat and go fishing. I don't care for fish myself, but humans love it, and I have several human guests as my humble home who I am happy to please. The problem is that every night on my way back I run into two thugs from a nearby bandit camp. I would be happy to simply walk past them, but they attack on sight, forcing me to rip their hearts out. Every night. Surely the bandit camp has noticed that no one ever comes back from their patrols alive? Upon seeing an imposing vampire approaching, surely these hapless patrols must make a logical connection and consider changing course or perhaps trying a friendly nod and a smile?

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I always liked how Vermintide handled mob courage. If a Skaven is in a large group, he's bold, but if you come across one who has been separated from the group, he's clearly terrified. Have you played any games where the mobs act more reasonably than in your average game?

Here I am in my straw hat standing over the tainted hearts of my foes.

If you were a bandit and met this guy at night, would you attack him? Maybe it's the straw hat that causes confusion?

 

[Frindis]

Adaptive AI is something that would be cool to see in more games. Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain at least give you a feeling of it because while you are progressing through the main story the enemies will get new equipment and use them depending on how you play. If you use for example a lot of sleep gas or shoot them in the head, they'll start using gas masks/helmets. It's not REAL adaptive AI, but it does give the impression that they are changing their tactics.

Some people mentioned that Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system has adaptive AI, perhaps someone has experience with it? Not sure if it relates to mob action or just the different bosses you meet? Alien Isolation is the closest I have experienced real adaptive AI, but the mobs in that game definitely are not adaptive at all. They are dumb as rocks, the Xenomorph, on the other hand, is a little smarter.

Another game comes to mind though and that is The Forest. Not played it myself, but from what I have seen from gameplay, there are different mobs that react differently to what they see/what you do and they all have different routes they use for navigating.

 

[Zloth]

Well no, *I* wouldn't attack him. He's clearly got a terrible case of pinkeye. That stuff spreads like wildfire!

But yeah, MMOs and some other RPGs have that "con" system. Enemies well below your level will not attack you and, if you attack them, you'll get no rewards for it at all. (The reverse is not true. Much higher level AI enemies are more than happy to attack you, regardless of reward. See City of Heroes' U'Kon Gr'ai for example.)

The game is early access still, right? Ask for them to put something like that into the game. Having them flee from you mighty presence would be even better!

P.S. Uhhh, @Frindis? phantom Pain!

 

[Frindis]

P.S. Uhhh, @Frindis? Phantom Pain!

Much obliged!😅 😅

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Hi, I'm a gear level 81 vampire. Every night, I put on my straw hat and go fishing. I don't care for fish myself, but humans love it, and I have several human guests as my humble home who I am happy to please.

Let me get this straight. You're a vampire who keeps humans in your home. You feed those humans every day, in exchange for taking enough of each of their blood at night that they don't die, but you're satisfied. Is that right?

 

[ZedClampet]

Let me get this straight. You're a vampire who keeps humans in your home. You feed those humans every day, in exchange for taking enough of each of their blood at night that they don't die, but you're satisfied. Is that right?

Exactly. I even keep them in safety cages to ensure they don't get injured.

 

[Zloth]

Remember Heather from back in Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines? A gal that was dying so you gave her some of your blood, which turned her into a "ghoul" that acted as your willing thrall. So now what? You can't just release her or send her away. It all gets very awkward. Especially when she brings her ex-boyfriend back to your place so you can drink his blood.

I popped back in to HowLongToBeat.com and updated it with my X4 playing time. It only had six other completion entries. Adding all of them together still wasn't close to my playing time of 644.8hrs.

 

[Colif]

But yeah, MMOs and some other RPGs have that "con" system. Enemies well below your level will not attack you and, if you attack them, you'll get no rewards for it at all. (The reverse is not true. Much higher level AI enemies are more than happy to attack you, regardless of reward. See City of Heroes' U'Kon Gr'ai for example.)

Sacred 2 the lower lvl mobs would run away from you. And it wasn't worth killing them as you got nothing for them. Its why playing in higher difficulties was more rewarding as if you had managed to not die this entire time you are not going to meet mobs below your lvl as everything is above it. But if you die, the levels of the mobs around you drops and you may suddenly run into greys. Its the the games way of making you move onto a new area where the difficulty might be higher. But then dying in Sacred 2... you might as well start again.
Higher lvl mobs can almost smell you if you lower lvl in an area you shouldn't be.

 

[Withywarlock]

You mention Vermintide, and I'll mention a few other games in the Warhammer property that do this. Mark of Chaos/Battle March was my first exposure to adaptive morale, where units can break depending on how well leaders are doing, their presence, and the health of the unit. Being broken by cavalry or encircling foes helps too. Men of the Empire and Skaven had a hard time keeping their poo in but the Greenskins and Warriors of Chaos lived for engagements. It's appropriate that game was the precursor to Total War: Warhammer, which - being a TW game - naturally features morale. The use of magic and fantastical units also greatly sways morale, not to mention units that have no use for morale (the various undead) or those whose improves in sustained combat (Greenskins).

Other games that have units with fight-or-flight are, or at least were, PAYDAY 2. PD2 used to have Suppression as a transparent statistic but has long since (unless it's been un-re-updated) remained hidden. Your suppression stat was determined by armour and weapon size, noise and sustained fire, which would keep the constabulary well behind cover and civilians on the ground if they weren't cable tied.

There's not many other games that come to mind without their fleeing being weak. Enemies in Bethesda games will frequently ask to be spared but then come running back shortly after with some minor health regenerated and their axe sharpened. And then there's games like Ultima, where in one installment fighting fleeing enemies counts as going against one of the Eight Virtues and points in that category (Honour, I think) get deducted... but you need to kill them for XP. >.<

 

[Zloth]

City of Heroes had enemies that would flee, too. Melee superheroes HATED that until they got a travel power.