Is downloading a game from myabandonware.com considered piracy?

[ZedClampet]

I checked all legitimate sites and the game I was interested in wasn't on them. I'm not saying your answers to this question will effect my decision. I'm just curious what the general opinion of the site is. So far as I know, none of the games are available for sale anywhere.

I know that game publishers don't like game preservation. They've fought it in the courts because they fear it would cut into their profits. Can't say I give a damn about their profits.

If it makes a difference, I did own the game back in the day, but I have no idea what happened to it. My wife probably threw it away.

 

[Pifanjr]

I just know that the legality is complicated and you're probably breaking a law or opening yourself up to a lawsuit somehow, but no government agency is enforcing these laws and no company is going to sue you for it.

Even if a company sued you for it they'd probably have a hard time proving they suffered any material harm considering they're not selling the game any more.

 

[Colif]

Only 13 percent of all classic games released between 1960 and 2009 are currently commercially available, according to the "Survey of the Video Game Reissue Market in the United States,"

Abandonware - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

certainly is a lot of it out there.

That site is seen as illegal on other sites where this question came up.

It really depends if the copyright holder still exists. Given most of the files on site weren't put there by orignal creator, its likely a really grey area.

 

[ZedClampet]

But it's the same thing to me as the sites for emulator ROMs. Isn't that supposed to be okay so long as you owned the game? Or are you supposed to actually still have the discs? Or am I confused and it isn't considered okay at all?

I owned the game I'm looking at, and the company once sent me a download link for it when I told them I lost the discs years ago. They might actually do that again if I wrote to them again, so I'm pretty sure they don't care. The only reason I didn't write to them to see if they would send me the link is because the game doesn't work anymore, but the abandonware version has been fixed.

I think I'll write to them anyway and just present the situation to them and ask them for their stance on it.

 

[Pifanjr]

One thing that's often a problem is that circumventing DRM is illegal.

 

[Colif]

Even if the company that ran the servers that the DRM checked doesn't exist anymore?

At least most of the old abandonware games actually run without needing to contact a server just to let you play. So many modern abandonware titles don't work anyway as the servers are gone.

I hate how we mostly rent server based games. You don't own anything if they can just turn servers off. Games makers love it as you can't keep playing their old (better) games and have to buy the new ones instead. Ubisoft has used it to force people to do that... The Crew 2 comes to mind. Updating old games to make them worse than the originals is also a trick they good at...

 

[BeardyHat]

I would rather own a legitimate copy of something via Steam or GoG, but if I can't do that and I really want to try that thing, any means necessary is fine.

 

[ZedClampet]

I already heard back from their customer support, but they didn't answer my question. I just got a form letter stating that the game was broken by the Windows 10 Anniversary Update, and that the game is no longer being updated, but that I might be able to find a workaround online.

What I take from this form letter is that they send it to people who still have the game, but are complaining that it doesn't work anymore. The game was never released digitally, so some people have been holding onto their discs for over 20 years.

HOWEVER based on what I told them about downloading it from a game preservation site, and them responding that I might find a workaround online, I'm taking that as permission. They said absolutely nothing about piracy, just that it didn't work and check for a solution online. For all I know they were trying to give me permission without actually giving me permission, if you know what I mean.

 

[COLGeek]

As already discussed, this is a legally murky topic. In general, even without a victim, it is legally perilous. While the risk of repercussions is low, it isn't nil.

When in doubt. Don't use these sources.

 

[ZedClampet]

As already discussed, this is a legally murky topic. In general, even without a victim, it is legally perilous. While the risk of repercussions is low, it isn't nil.

When in doubt. Don't use these sources.

I just don't understand what the difference between this and emulation is if I've owned the game. Seems like exactly the same thing.

 

[Pifanjr]

I just don't understand what the difference between this and emulation is if I've owned the game. Seems like exactly the same thing.

As far as I'm aware downloading games for your emulator is legally the same/similar to downloading games for your PC from unofficial sources. The emulator itself might also not be legal as it could contain an illegal number.

As far as I'm aware the only legal way to get a copy of a game you own is to copy the files yourself, either by copying over the physical medium or just the digital files, as long as it doesn't involve bypassing any DRM.

 

[ZedClampet]

As far as I'm aware downloading games for your emulator is legally the same/similar to downloading games for your PC from unofficial sources. The emulator itself might also not be legal as it could contain an illegal number.

As far as I'm aware the only legal way to get a copy of a game you own is to copy the files yourself, either by copying over the physical medium or just the digital files, as long as it doesn't involve bypassing any DRM.

I see. You have to rip the files from the game that you own. You can't download a ROM.

 

[COLGeek]

I just don't understand what the difference between this and emulation is if I've owned the game. Seems like exactly the same thing.

No argument. ROMs clearly fall into this same quagmire.

 

[Rataplan]

Once a publisher removes a game from all stores and permanently stops supporting the game i wouldn´t call it piracy. By doing that they make it impossible to make money from it so it would be hard for them to argue in court that they lose money because a site puts it up for download.

 

[JCgames]

I hate how we mostly rent server based games. You don't own anything if they can just turn servers off.

OP, I Honestly wouldn't worry about abandoned titles to much. Often their rights are in limbo, or they are out if print and no digital version exist. I'd be more worried about malware than actual legal issues. That said I don't pirate games anyway as most games end up dirt cheap anyway. But it does such that some really great games just can't be bought outside of ebay.

I know I've even seen devs say to do it as it's the only option, like the guy that made scratches, he also gives away keys on steam from time to time, but he can't sell it because of some messed up license issue, the owner won't sell it and he can't get it. Classic limbo. Other games like the old mechwarrior games are found on some sites and while not officially allowed, Microsoft doesn't make them take them down and let's um live. I think mektek had a big mod add on and you get the game and microsfts has taljed with them and there stuff is still available So I thinks it's more situational depending on the game your looking at



@Colif if you don't buy games on disk you don't really own anything anyway even games with out servers. its all just a user license. Though most dont get pulled but they could. But you probably know that.

When steam first came along I did not use it for that simple fact i was totally agianst the whole you dont own it unlike gog where you buy and back up and its yours forever.

basically the cost of not owning now is just too good so its just worth it for me verse old school and I still can just back everything up and pull it off line as well for a game in the past system, though steam is a little more unfriendly for that. Like gog you can buy a win 98 game and put it in a win 98 system, steam keeps updating so their launcher won't work, but the game would. Just another pet peeve that steam really needs to fix

 

[mjs warlord]

you said .....


@Colif if you don't buy games on disk you don't really own anything anyway even games with out servers. its all just a user license. Though most dont get pulled but they could. But you probably know that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

That statement is incorrect , back in the day when you could only buy games on discs the same rules applied. If you took back a faulty disc you were told you cant have a refund because you opened the box and as soon as you do that you become the licence holder and licences are not transferable. Thats why a game would not start to install unless you ticked the box to agree to T's & C's ... they would assume you had scrolled through all the legal rubbish and found out you are the licence holder and not the game owner.

I got into an argument one day as i had taken a FAULTY disc back and they said we cant do a refund because your the licence holder so we wont be able to resell it. I asked how they were going to resell a FAULTY disc and was asked to leave the store.

Tongue in cheek moment ....... does this mean a hundred people work on a game for 2 years and we get it for free and just pay for permission to use it. ???

 

[JCgames]

You are talking about two different things, returning something is store policy, you still own the corrupted disks. I would have contacted the company directly and sent it to them asking for a replacement. For example I returned everquest and that game was keyed to an account and could not be resold, they just needed to contact the distributor for replacement.

Also most games with agreements have an online component or are using the digital agreemen or have some kind of online activation. There are still games with none of that on physical media though it's getting hard to find. Often these days there is zero option for physical. Consoles are becoming the last vestige of the physical media, and when you run the offline you can often skip agreements if they exist or they don't matter because they are just a check box connecting with nothing though you won't get updates.

For instance my Xbox has never been plugged into the internet so no updates on any game I own for it. But gotham racing works great and I have a couple others I played on occasion like odd world. Mech assault, jedi obiwan, football ect. Granted it's not pc but the same rules apply

 

[mjs warlord]

You are talking about two different things, returning something is store policy, you still own the corrupted disks. I would have contacted the company directly and sent it to them asking for a replacement. For example I returned everquest and that game was keyed to an account and could not be resold, they just needed to contact the distributor for replacement.

Also most games with agreements have an online component or are using the digital agreemen or have some kind of online activation. There are still games with none of that on physical media though it's getting hard to find. Often these days there is zero option for physical. Consoles are becoming the last vestige of the physical media, and when you run the offline you can often skip agreements if they exist or they don't matter because they are just a check box connecting with nothing though you won't get updates.

For instance my Xbox has never been plugged into the internet so no updates on any game I own for it. But gotham racing works great and I have a couple others I played on occasion like odd world. Mech assault, jedi obiwan, football ect. Granted it's not pc but the same rules apply

Hello JCgames we have chatted before ,,,, Maybe the staff at the branch of that well know store made their own rules up to avoid returns , as well as myself being refused a refund i was in the queue behind a young lad who paid for a game and before he walked away he said if it does not work can i bring it back and he was told once you open the case .... no refund .... he put the game down and asked for his money back but was refused. He shouted he dad and pointed out he had not opened the box so dad said give him his money back or i go to trading standards.....

With regards to sending a disk back .... i sent a disc back to electronic arts because it had a crack in it so i could not install the game. They said it was not damaged but if i wanted a replacement they could sell me one. I refused the offer so they sent the disc back with the none existent crack still in it.

 

[neogunhero]

Who knows what the real legal rules are surrounding this, but my own personal principal is that if it not available anywhere else commercially apart from used/secondhand copies, then piracy in any form is acceptable, as long as you at some point in your life have spent money on it. The movie and TV industry does a fairly well job of keeping their content available in some way shape or form, at least better than the games industry IMO, so there is most likely some way for you to find a movie or show to watch in a way that is legal. Streaming, buying/renting digitally, or buying physical copies, these are usually available for nearly any show or movie made, at least in NA.

As for games, there becomes a time where a game is flat out not profitable for the company whatsoever. The game is old, outdated, surpassed by better games, didn't sell well and generally forgotten, licenses expire, there are so many reasons for a game to essentially drop off the face of the earth. If the company that owned the rights to a particular game wanted to for any reason, they would sell it in some form officially. Old games don't even need to be remastered or enhanced, they can just exist in the form they released in, just made to be played on modern systems which can be incredibly easy, and that is all it takes. As far as I understand it, it doesn't cost the company anything to keep their games on digital store fronts, maybe a small fee but typically negligible for the company.

I could very well be oversimplifying this entire situation, casting a very general blanket over the causes and situations for a game not being commercially available, but I think for the most part there shouldn't be any major reason besides licensing and contracts expiring for a game to not be available to purchase in some form. Companies should try harder to just make these games available in some way. As I said before, it does not have to be some remastered edition that potentially costs more to make than the original version, just look at GOG. They have implemented testing and software to ensure old games run great on modern systems, and besides that they are not enhancing, remastering, or altering the game in any way and the players love that. We want to play the game in the way that we remember it.

So to conclude, I think companies need to have more ways to make their games available. If I want to play something and I no longer have my original copy, then I will try to find it online. If I can't find it available to purchase officially anywhere besides used copies, and I see it on myabandonware.com or the Internet Archive, then I will download it there. I no longer use real pirating sites, so those two sites are about the furthest I go with "pirating". Usually I can find whatever it is i'm looking for on there.